The best winter boots for extreme cold?

Well, wouldn’t you know it; it has warmed up to 40 and is pouring rain here and in Homer! That reminds me of something Doug and Karen mentioned about having ice grippers. With wet ice you will want something to help you get around if this weather pattern happens to repeat itself in early February. You will find a wide variety of ice grippers in Homer – I think I would wait and buy something up here if it turns out you need them.

Steve S wrote: "bunny boots" are valued not so much for their absolute warmth or comfort as their relative "cheap" price, being an army surplus item.

I agree, they definitely are not the most comfortable boots, especially for hiking – that is why I was interested in how Greg intended to use winter boots. At a $100 bucks a pair, I have not thought of them as cheap. But I will say, you are the first person who I have heard discount their value for absolute warmth. Their absolute warmth is why people put up with the awkwardness of walking and working in them. It is also why they made them mandatory equipment on the 2,000 mile Alaska Iron Dog snow mobile race, after a few riders frostbit their feet in other boots. I would estimate half the Iditarod mushers wear bunny boots; when you life depends on keeping warm, I really don’t think they are wearing them to save a couple bucks.

This topic has really turned into something interesting and informative. Just great.

With regard to the Bunny Boots, it seems that today there would be something better and more comfortable. If half of the mushers are wearing them it kind makes you think they are the best.

Ron do you know why don't they wear something like the Baffin and others rated to -148? It really makes no sense but I am sitting here is South Florida trying to keep cool

Alfred

AForns wrote: Ron do you know why don't they wear something like the Baffin and others rated to -148? It really makes no sense but I am sitting here is South Florida trying to keep cool

Alfred

Alfred, that is a good question. Some of the mushers wear do wear other boots by companies such as Northern Outfitters and Cabelas – especially if they are sponsored by such companies – kind of like big name photographers. I wasn’t familiar with Baffin boots, so I don’t know how many were wearing them.

The main reasons mushers prefer bunny boots is because they are just as warm soaking wet and full of water as they are dry. Getting wet can be a deadly combination for most footwear.

Now you might think getting wet is not much of an issue at 40 to 60 below zero, but actually it is just the opposite. As the ice grows thicker on lakes and rivers during a cold spell, the water underneath the ice has no place to go and gets forced out through cracks in the ice creating a condition called overflow. So now new ice forms on this layer of overflow, but it may not be very thick, and an unsuspecting musher could easily break through this new layer of ice. Fortunately overflow is usually not very deep – but is often deep enough to fill your boots with water. With bunny boots this isn’t a problem, you just keep moving and your feet will quickly warm up, and this is a real advantage of bunny boots. I can say from experience, that initial instant you begin to break through the ice is a little frightening, and it is a great relief when you hit the layer of ice underneath!

Greg, I would go for the bunny boots. My son in (way) northern Idaho had NEVER in his life been able to keep his feet warm until I got him a pair of bunny boots (white). They have kept his feet warm. One of my colleagues who does research on the mushers and dogs in the Iditerod swears by them also.

After much thought (and a lot of help from you all) I went ahead and ordered the Schnee's that Les recommended:

http://www.schnees.com/Merchant2/mercha ... y_Code=EXT

I also got an extra set of liners as well as some seam sealer and water proofing stuff for the uppers.

These boots seam very similar to the Ice Kings but I could not find replacement liners for the Ice Kings and I also don't like the cordura sides on the Ice Kings because they can't be sealed like all-leather uppers can. They also contain more insulation than the Ice Kings.

The Baffin ones looked good, but perhaps a bit overkill (though there were too many to choose from). The Bunny Boots looked clunky and hard to walk around in and I don't like the idea of putting my feet into someone else's sweat collector.

If I need to get into really deep, wet snow I will put on my NOES overshoes.

I had to make a decision today and I hope it's the right one. I am sure there are many other options but I think these will work fine for me.

I will give you all my initial impressions in a couple weeks when I am on the jetty for 3 days at Barnegat. Then off to Homer (I won't be taking these to San Diego later this month ).

Smart choice on getting the extra liners! I had an extra pair of liners for my Sorels – it was very handy to be able to have one drying, while you wore the other set. Hopefully you will have a good heat source in your room, where are you staying?

You would be styling wearing a pair of Schnee’s in San Diego! I hear they go very well with shorts.

Ron,

We are staying at the Spruce Acre Cabins. Do you know of them?

Yes, the extra liners are key!

Greg, that is a great choice. We have stayed at a few places in Homer, and the Spruce Acres Cabins is our favorite. We were in the 2 story Wild Rose Cabin, but I’m sure they are all nice. Each cabin had one of those high tech oil heaters – perfect for drying liners and gloves. If I remember correctly they even had hooks above the heater for hanging your drying stuff.

All this Homer talk is getting me excited about heading over that direction. I had planned on meeting the Walkingman in March, but I think may head over there in the next few weeks as well – I will give you an update on the current conditions if I do. It has been two years since I have been there, back when a 300 2.8 was my longest lens, so I have plenty of room to improve my coverage. With your technique, the 10D and converters, I’m expecting you to come home with some shots of just the eye. You are going to have a blast!

Greg Downing wrote:After much thought (and a lot of help from you all) I went ahead and ordered the Schnee's that Les recommended:

http://www.schnees.com/Merchant2/mercha ... y_Code=EXT

I also got an extra set of liners as well as some seam sealer and water proofing stuff for the uppers.

I will give you all my initial impressions in a couple weeks when I am on the jetty for 3 days at Barnegat. Then off to Homer (I won't be taking these to San Diego later this month ).

Thanx for posting this -- just looked at the boots and they actually have them in my size 7. As you can guess nobody else carries these types of boots in my size Yes world I have small feet and well kinda proud of it :roll:
Just took a look at the long term forecast and Barnegat that weekend is gonna be cold, windy and snowy so I am sure the test of these boots will be good.

Hey gang,

I am coming in at the end of this conversation, but here are some more foods for thought. My cold weather boot to date has been the Sorel Caribou, but I recently wore my Asolo Gore-Tex leather-hiking boots in Jasper where temperatures ranged from -25F to a high of 5F. Toe warmers did the trick on all, but the coldest of days. My Patagonia Expedition capiliene socks are wonderful and the best I have worn to date.

With winter trips to AK, MT, Churchill, Jasper and more I have recently purchased a pair of Cabela's Predator Pac boots - rated to minus 140. They weigh in at 5.6 lbs, a major consideration considering all my travel these days.

http://www.cabelas.com

Make sure when purchasing boots that you can wiggle your toes with the heaviest socks you intend to wear. A tight fit will definitely make for colder toes.


YAKTRAX Yaktrax Pro are easy on and off traction devices consisting of hand-wound stainless-steel coils that will help you walk with confidence on packed snow and ice. Only consider the Pro model with velcro strap. I used them in Jasper and they were super. At the time I purchased them the Pro model was not out and they did fall off in brush until I used a small bungie to secure them.

http://www.yaktrax.com/

For versatile crampon like devices consider the Kahtoola, an innovative, flexible traction system designed to be used with any common footwear from trail running shoes or hiking boots to snow boots. They are light weight, easy to carry, and I can put them on and secure them in two minutes. The bindings are well designed and hold fast. You will only need more than this if you are doing technical climbing.

http://www.kahtoola.com

BTW-Homer does not get that extreme interior cold.

Boot ratings are a bit off the mark, with those rated at minus 40 typically comfortable around the freezing point.

Best,

Chas

Hey folks,

All this talk of Homer has me excited .. by the way, it was over 65? F here yesterday!

A couple of points need to be reiterated, as folks too often take them for granted.

Keep the core warm. Vitally important!

Big boots .. as Chas said, a little more than wiggle room .. tight boots compress your socks and you lose insulation.

Homer does and can get 'that' cold .. Last year it fell to -40?F (I think on March 9 or thereabouts, with some ridiculous winds as well .. the year before, right around mid-march, they had a record snowfall in a 24hr period. This is kinda freakish, but it certainly happens, and it's better to be organised for it than not.

For the most part, you won't be standing still on ice for 8 hrs .. you'll be moving, quite a bit.

Depending on what rules 'the power that be' institute this year, how long, where and when you can shoot can be quite limited.

Cheers

Carl

I'm with Ron on the bunny boots- you'll never beat them if your feet get wet. I 've broken through ice and gone into knee deep water with them on- my feet were warm in a few minutes. But they're certainly clumpsy! The maker of bunny boots is Bata.

When shopping for used bunny boots look closely for two holes at the top and back of the boot- were the boot meets your calf. If you see two symetric holes about 1/8" in diameter, the boots most likely have a hole in them in the insulation area. The boots are inflated through the value and if they don't hold a bit of pressure, they have a leak. The military then punches those two holes and gets rid of them as surplus. Trust me on this one- I've seen the test and punching done first hand.

Northern Outfitter boots are great for dry conditions- very light and comfortable. No laterally support- at least not in the pair I used 10 years ago- most likely they've improved. Forget about them if you plan on using anything like crampons or ice creepers.

Ice Kings are also quite popular- lighter, somewhat less bulky and your feet are less likely to get trench foot. A number of guys I fly with in a search and rescue squadron use them.

But for Homer, almost any reasonably boot will work- particulary if you have extra liners.

walkinman wrote:Hey folks,

Homer does and can get 'that' cold .. Last year it fell to -40?F (I think on March 9 or thereabouts, with some ridiculous winds as well .. the year before, right around mid-march, they had a record snowfall in a 24hr period. This is kinda freakish, but it certainly happens, and it's better to be organised for it than not.

That must be with chill factor, because we did get some ridicules winds in March. Last year the ambient temperature never dropped below zero in Homer – and even in Anchorage for that matter. This fall Anchorage finally broke the zero mark for the first time in almost 2 years. Strange weather for Alaska. Although, even the all time record low for Homer of -24, would be considered mild in many parts of Alaska.

This has been a very interesting thread, and quite useful. Living in Wash. D.C. area, local stores don't have much of a selection of cold-weather boots, so it has been very informative to read about the other options. I want to echo one thing that Chas mentioned concerning ratings. While looking at the Cabella's web site I noticed that the Sorel Caribou are rated to -40F. These are the boots I have and based on personal experience, there is no way that rating is true in real-world conditions. Based on prior experience shooting in Homer and Yellowstone in winter, if you are standing around on ice for any length of time in near zero (F) conditions, your (my) feet will get cold, even wearing sock liners and heavy socks (such as Smart Wool). The situation is a bit different if you are moving around and active. I have no idea how these ratings are derived, but they definitely should be taken with a grain of skepticism, if not salt.

By the way Ron, not sure when you planned on hooking up with the Walkinman in Homer in March, but I should also be on that trip (although Carl may be doing a longer stay than me). Will be nice to meet you if you make it.

Greg Downing wrote:

BrianS wrote:Hey Greg were you able to find Baffin Boots? My searches online came up empty for Men, just women. I think I might opt for the La Crosse or Cabela La Crosse Look-Alikes.

http://www.winterfootwear.com/

All the Baffin boots you could ever want (Men, Women and Kids). You will see why I am overwhelmed...

Oh my -- that is a lot to choose from.

Greg Downing wrote:After much thought (and a lot of help from you all) I went ahead and ordered the Schnee's that Les recommended:

http://www.schnees.com/Merchant2/mercha ... y_Code=EXT

I also got an extra set of liners as well as some seam sealer and water proofing stuff for the uppers.

These boots seam very similar to the Ice Kings but I could not find replacement liners for the Ice Kings and I also don't like the cordura sides on the Ice Kings because they can't be sealed like all-leather uppers can. They also contain more insulation than the Ice Kings.

The Baffin ones looked good, but perhaps a bit overkill (though there were too many to choose from). The Bunny Boots looked clunky and hard to walk around in and I don't like the idea of putting my feet into someone else's sweat collector.

If I need to get into really deep, wet snow I will put on my NOES overshoes.

I had to make a decision today and I hope it's the right one. I am sure there are many other options but I think these will work fine for me.

I will give you all my initial impressions in a couple weeks when I am on the jetty for 3 days at Barnegat. Then off to Homer (I won't be taking these to San Diego later this month ).

Sounds like a really good boot -- I just tried to order and was told they are back-ordered for 2 to 3 weeks.

BrianS wrote: I just tried to order and was told they are back-ordered for 2 to 3 weeks.

Yep, they called this morning and I got the same thing. SO I went ahead and ordered the Cabela`s Predator Extreme boots that Chas got with extra liners instead. They are lighter anyway and rated at -140 so they must be ok down to zero. Ordered a bunch of foot warmers while I was at it....

I also got the Patagonia Capilene Expedition Weight Socks at

http://www.backcountrystore.com/store/

Since I ordered 3 pairs (at $20 each) they will be shipped for free.

I think I spent more time deciding what boots to buy than what lens to purchase! I'm DONE!

Now, how about gloves?

Now, how about gloves? [/quote]

You might want to look at the "Mickey Mouse gloves" or the "white Bunny" gloves. When you put your hand into the icy waters to retrieve your 500mm lens, your hands will re-warm in under 5 minutes.

All this talk of boots and keeping feet warm got me to thinking about the best advice I ever got regarding keeping extremities warm in cold weather. Regardless of how cold it is, make sure you empty your bladder on a regular basis. When the body gets cold it shunts all the blood to the middle of the body to warm internal organs. Your body will expend a lot of energy warming your bladder and it contents. When that happens fingers and toes don't get enough blood to keep warm.

I learned this from a guy named Bill that I worked with at an outdoor adventure company. He grew up in the Boundary Waters area of Minnesota and spent a great deal of time snow camping while running his trap lines.

Regards,

Terry

One thing I don't think was covered -- what happens if you wear these boots at -140 ratings and the weather warms up on you? Do your feet burn up leaving you uncomfortable ? Feet too warm is as much a discomfort as feet too cold.