Not everyone loves us...

I would like to also mention that at the time I spoke with Lee I asked for, and received, a copy of her organization's brochure, the Alaska Eagle Watch Network. The brochure includes some eagle facts, ten reasons why not to feed eagles, etc. Their website, http://www.alaskaeagles.com, had information that contradicted some of the stuff in the brochure at the time I received the brochure.

In fact, the website also had information that seems to contradict some of their recent editorial letters but I have not been able to access it as it appears to have been taken offline. However, Google caches copies of websites for a brief period of time and I was able to access their pages to get the relevant quotes from their EAGLE FUN FACTS! page: "~Eagles can swim", and "~Eagles can carry 8 lbs. in their talons". If an eagle truly drowned in the water, based on this and other information I have to suspect there was something wrong with it since it has the capability to swim by their own admission and no frozen herring likely exceeds 8 pounds in weight!

The website also goes on to claim that feeding eagles "6. Creates "Super Eagle"- Stronger birds are naturally adept at starving out smaller, weaker birds.", which seems to contradict that the eagles are simply being baited and not adequately fed. It also contradicts the "parrot-sized" eagle idea that was discussed with us in person.

E.J. Peiker wrote:

jnadler wrote:Lee's use of these words, "warm rented SUVs . . huge telephoto lenses . . . big money . . . freeway" indicates to me that her issue is more about out-of-town "city-people" with abundant net worth in her backyard than it is about feeding eagles.

Obviously somebody that would be better off in a Socialist country.

The People's Republic of Homer :roll:

Interstate Highways, their shoulders, medians and interchanges have extensive areas of grasses that are frequently mowed giving good access to rodent and small mamal prey. That and road kill of course!

All birds like "edges", but especially predatory species, and that includes edges of woods, etc which is what most roads are cut through. You would see the same at the edge of a field leading into woods etc. where prey are more easily spotted.

This has been an enlghtening discussion. Since I am a large format photographer and do not make images of wildlife (except on rare occasion), I really can see some reasonable concern of the practices that seem to occur at Homer. I do not think that feeding or baiting for the sole purpose of photography should be a followed or normal practice. Just take a step back and picture yourself throwing out a fish and then making a photograph. Not a true wilderness experience in my opinion. Note, however, that I am not stating that anyone here has undertaken this practice. I am talking on a general basis. Note, that I have also enjoyed some of the eagle photographs. On the other hand, I would like to see some scientific data to back of the claims of the author, as a I feel that the attack was too personal. The debate about the Homer eagle feeding reminds me of the debates on religion or politics...you won' t change the oppositions position. :roll:

Thanks.

Joe.

I think Jeff hit the nail on the head! A lot has to do with the attention that a group of serious or pro photographers always tends to attract. It would not be the same if a group of locals helped Jean do her feeding and brought along point and shoot cameras. These people must feel somehow exploited by all this. I'm not sure why the reactions to chartering an expensive fishing trip are completely different. I would guess the Chamber or Commerce has to walk a tightrope on all this. If you take away the concept that you are only taking photographs and only leaving footprints then it comes down to what impact the feeding itself does create. If you dropped one of those big lenses on a parrot size bird I'd guess that could also be a big impact.

I never thought of the Bald Eagle as a symbol of socialism. Interesting thread.

Tony, I think all raptors along highways is both because that is where your view lets you see them and a perfect hunting area for them because they mow the right of way. I think the big, fast things are a bigger threat to them than any predator although they may not recognize that fact.

Dick Ginkowski wrote:. . . The People's Republic of Homer :roll:

Hardly fair based on the actions of two or three people. Everyone I spoke with was small-town friendly. Even Lee, if she's who I think she is, was pleasant, if misguided and inconsistent on the issue of feeding.

Joseph Kayne wrote:. . . Just take a step back and picture yourself throwing out a fish and then making a photograph. Not a true wilderness experience in my opinion. Note, however, that I am not stating that anyone here has undertaken this practice. . . .

I don't have to picture it--I've done it! , as I'm sure Arthur and Greg have. (You don't actually toss and photograph at the same time--at least I'm not that quick--but rather take turns tossing.) A wilderness experience would result in very few, if any, eagle photos, which is why many of the places bird photos are made, from our backyards to Venice Rookery, are places where birds are habituated, which is just the opposite of wilderness. Note too that neither eagle feeding in Homer nor the creation of Venice Rookery was originally undertaken for the convenience of photographers; in these instances, photographers--like eagles --are just opportunists taking advantage of situations created by others.

I do have one regret about throwing fish--a shoulder injury limits the distance I can achieve with a frozen herring.

Hey Cliff, Speak for yourself. I threw and photographed at the same time, wiping the fish blood and guts on my pants after each throw. Still, the 70-200 was covered with scales and slime. What fun. Did I mention that I needed to wash both sets of gloves every night?

best, artie

"I do have one regret about throwing fish--a shoulder injury reduced the distances I could achieve."

Try a lighter fish... :roll:

(You don't actually toss and photograph at the same time--at least I'm not that quick--but rather take turns tossing.) Well, then picture yourselves throwing for each other.


Joe.

Cliff Beittel wrote:

Dick Ginkowski wrote:. . . The People's Republic of Homer :roll:

Hardly fair based on the actions of two or three people. Everyone I spoke with was small-town friendly. Even Lee, if she's who I think she is, was pleasant, if misguided and inconsistent on the issue of feeding.

Having spent many years in rural law enforcement before returning to an urban area, the phrase "small town friendly" is an overworked oxymoron.

In the case of Homer, it is one of the less friendly places I've been (though not the worst) and there are many local issues in which the process is extremely adversarial. There are some good things about the community as well, to be fair, but I would never place it among the list of either the most friendly, progressive or cohesive. (Note, too, that I also have a background in public administration.)

Joseph Kayne wrote:This has been an enlghtening discussion. Since I am a large format photographer and do not make images of wildlife (except on rare occasion), I really can see some reasonable concern of the practices that seem to occur at Homer. I do not think that feeding or baiting for the sole purpose of photography should be a followed or normal practice. Just take a step back and picture yourself throwing out a fish and then making a photograph. Not a true wilderness experience in my opinion. Note, however, that I am not stating that anyone here has undertaken this practice. I am talking on a general basis. Note, that I have also enjoyed some of the eagle photographs. On the other hand, I would like to see some scientific data to back of the claims of the author, as a I feel that the attack was too personal. The debate about the Homer eagle feeding reminds me of the debates on religion or politics...you won' t change the oppositions position. :roll:

Thanks.

Joe.

It would be very interesting to see you photographing eagles in flight, Joe. That would make the lethargic focusing on my Canon 20Duh seem like a rocket!

G'day, m8!

[quote="Dick Ginkowski
It would be very interesting to see you photographing eagles in flight, Joe. That would make the lethargic focusing on my Canon 20Duh seem like a rocket!

G'day, m8![/quote]

Hey Dick, good to hear from you. Hey, I'm quick with the view camera.don't underestimate my quickeness, even though I think I need to get bifoculs.

Joe.

Arthur Morris wrote: I threw and photographed at the same time, wiping the fish blood and guts on my pants after each throw. Still, the 70-200 was covered with scales and slime. What fun. Did I mention that I needed to wash both sets of gloves every night?

best, artie

And this is why there's a line on my web site that reads:

Unlike Arthur Morris, I don't get mud on my belly -- intentionally! That's why Arthur has better images!

I found Homer to be quite friendly. It reminded me of the small Vermont town where I used to live (Londonderry). In each place there was a lot of debate on certain issues (big stores for one), but I found that as long as you dont have an attitude that you are superior because you are from the big city , people were really nice.

The only thing that seemed to cause an occasional problem was asking for separate checks at some places.

Wow, what a furore ! A couple of things spring to mind:

1) No-one seems to get that excited about crowds of pigeons, seagulls at the dump or ducks at the park, guess eagles are just more impressive / photogenic
2) There does seem just a little bit of hypocrisy around - let's face it, you "wild bird" photographers are out there in Homer for your own enjoyment, nothing to do with the eagles welfare. Some of you might think it is payback for years of subscription to nature organisations etc. Sure you might leap into the freezing waters to save a drowning bird, good for you but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really add up to that much.
3) A lot of people get up in arms about oil development in Alaska because it will harm the environment, but then you fly to Homer and rent an SUV ?
4) Y'all are getting excited about someone getting excited about you, but how many threads have there been about "tourons".
5) Wish I'd been there to see all you crack assault troops crawling around the beach covered in fish offal
6) Perhaps part of the "excitement" (apart from the lunatic fringe) comes from nature defenders who are starved of money and resources and see $100k's of "toys" being lugged around by a few transients ?
7) There is a fairly pervasive sense to lots of threads that basically wildlife should be managed for your enjoyment, not that photographic and nature's needs are necessarilly mutually exclusive but you do want the pendulum weighted in your favour.


Now I'm going to duck

This has been an interesting discussion. I have no experience with Bald Eagles, haven't even seen one. But I have much experience with White-tailed Eagles (Haliaeetus albicilla), which is a close relative to the Bald Eagle (its Eurasian equivalent) and the two species share similar ecology.

The White-tailed Eagle was persecuted in Europe and became extinct in many countries, including Scotland, where a successful re-introduction program was carried out by the RSPB. We have also been working intensively here in Iceland to protect and boost our small population, which went down to 20 pairs at the height of persecution, but is now up to 60. I have personally put up a winter feeding site for eagles, to help them survive through winter. The first winter in a juvenile’s life is the most difficult one, and many of them perish. Their hunting techniques are not refined and they rely on whatever they find lying around – they are scavengers. Feeding eagles will be of most benefit to young birds and will boost their survival rate. Winter-feeding has been an important part in re-establishing healthy eagle populations in many parts of Europe, and is still carried out by bird conservation NGO’s and individuals.

I cannot see any harm being done to the Homer eagles by feeding them. All it does is lower juvenile mortality. The breeding population of the area is however controlled by the available prey during the breeding season, so there is hardly any danger of a local overpopulation, since additional birds will disperse to new territories. If feeding will suddenly stop theses birds will not all perish either. Although they have become habituated to feeding, they are quick to adapt to changes and are indeed very resourceful birds.

If the feeding is becoming a problem in Homer, why don’t eagle photography workshop instructors (of which there seem to be a few) get together and establish their own feeding station somewhere up in Alaska, in a friendlier environment that welcomes their business? A local could be hired to take care of the feeding during the winter and a permanent hide could be built. If a few workshop instructors would combine their resources, this should not have to be a heavy cost for each one. Then you could all have your way as you please. Is this a crazy idea?

Hi, Daniel! Good input, and no, not a bad idea! However, this group is looking to get eagle feeding banned at the state level, making it illegal to feed bald eagles intentionally anywhere in Alaska. It isn't just about Homer.

To clarify, 99% of Homer is thrilled to have our business! Photographers likely comprise much more than 50% of the revenue for the slow winter months. The restaurants and hotels made us feel very welcomed! It is just this four-person network raising the issue. One Homer resident actually contacted us after we returned home to apologize the way this group had treated us and say "I trust you understand that they do not represent the rest of us." I thought that was very nice.

Daniel has an awesome idea. You wouldn't even need to go to AK - there are many Eagles in the lower 48 and Canada - actually more in BC in the winter than anywhere else in the world. Finding someplace that welcomes this would be a challenge though.

Daniel Bergmann wrote:This has been an interesting discussion. I have no experience with Bald Eagles, haven't even seen one. But I have much experience with White-tailed Eagles (Haliaeetus albicilla), which is a close relative to the Bald Eagle (its Eurasian equivalent) and the two species share similar ecology.

The White-tailed Eagle was persecuted in Europe and became extinct in many countries, including Scotland, where a successful re-introduction program was carried out by the RSPB. We have also been working intensively here in Iceland to protect and boost our small population, which went down to 20 pairs at the height of persecution, but is now up to 60. I have personally put up a winter feeding site for eagles, to help them survive through winter. The first winter in a juvenile’s life is the most difficult one, and many of them perish. Their hunting techniques are not refined and they rely on whatever they find lying around – they are scavengers. Feeding eagles will be of most benefit to young birds and will boost their survival rate. Winter-feeding has been an important part in re-establishing healthy eagle populations in many parts of Europe, and is still carried out by bird conservation NGO’s and individuals.

I cannot see any harm being done to the Homer eagles by feeding them. All it does is lower juvenile mortality. The breeding population of the area is however controlled by the available prey during the breeding season, so there is hardly any danger of a local overpopulation, since additional birds will disperse to new territories. If feeding will suddenly stop theses birds will not all perish either. Although they have become habituated to feeding, they are quick to adapt to changes and are indeed very resourceful birds.

If the feeding is becoming a problem in Homer, why don’t eagle photography workshop instructors (of which there seem to be a few) get together and establish their own feeding station somewhere up in Alaska, in a friendlier environment that welcomes their business? A local could be hired to take care of the feeding during the winter and a permanent hide could be built. If a few workshop instructors would combine their resources, this should not have to be a heavy cost for each one. Then you could all have your way as you please. Is this a crazy idea?

This post is far too sensible and unemotional ......