Using live bait for nature Photography?

I will post my opinion latter.

I will shoot captives but do not bait in any way-live or dead but I do not so much think of it as cruel, just not my thing. Before anyone asks, I do not shoot anything I have baited, not even birdfeeders. I will shoot with others that may have baited, such as with corn for ducks, etc.

This is a difficult question and not one I'd answer with a would or wouldn't response. I'm sure everyone would draw the line somewhere but in different places according to personal ethics. I see no problem feeding mealworms to birds. I know people who feed thousands of mealworms year around and never photograph them. I have ethical problems with feeding higher mammals to lower reptiles but snake keepers do that all the time. I could think of extreme examples that I'm sure no one here would be OK with. Nature is cruel enough but that is not the aspect of nature that most people want to see or think about.

There's no "it depends" answer.

There is such a range of live bait available for such a range of prey species that I suspect many of us would be okay with some combinations but not others.

-Paul

Whats the difference between live bait for photography or feeding birds in the backyard just because and or to watch?

Robert.................

I think that you have to be very careful here and check the local game laws about baiting of any kind. Each State and Provience has it's own laws governing the use of "bait" to attract wildlife at any time of year. Wouldn't want to end up in the pokey.

Let's not forget: the owls are here because they are starving. If the GGO's around northern Montreal move further south, they will have to navigate Montreal - putting them at risk of being killed along the way. What is the difference: feeding owls or blue jays? FYI - most birders have feeders that are not disinfected often enough. Most feeders attract large numbers of birds, causing unnatural concentrations of birds /food/excriment. Most feeders attract birds of prey. Most feeders are near houses, windows, cats and car traffic. Most birders travel great distances each year to see birds (think of the pollution)....need I say more?
EDIT: This is just my opinion - I do not want to force it on you.

i htink sacrificeing the life of one critter for the photograph of another is a bit on the long end. imo, not really the same as laying out seeds,, its illegal to bait bears for any reason as it will inevitably end in his destruction, but just because you bait an owl and he cant attack a human after he has learned the human feeding behaivoir, doesnt make it right,,,rats a rat, but its still a living thing, and to sacrifice it for a photograph,, !!, in the end though, anyone can find a justification of there actions, whether right or wrong,,society allows it

Hey folks,

I tend to agree with Kim here .. there's a huge disparity between 'baiting' with seed and baiting with live animals. The fact that owls move south in search of food doesn't change the ethic of sacrificing a live animal for a photograph. And I don't believe mammals to be any 'higher' than reptiles either.

Cheers

Carl

Re: Carl & Kim's comments...

I voted as a "fence sitter" but that was with me never even contemplating that we might be talking about using live animals! As far as seed and fruit etc goes... I don't have a problem with it in moderation, problems arise when the "bait" becomes a major food source. I think that is something to keep in mind if you are "baiting" in the wild... the culminative(?) affect of many people feeding in the same sort of area can lead to the same problems as putting out seed in your backyard every day of the year.

As others already said before I think you cant compare feeding birds with seeds of fruits with using mammals, reptiles or other animals as live bait.
I recognize this is not objective, but I'm not impressed if someone use worms, insects or even small fish as bait, but when it comes to using animals closer to me, like mammals, I get very impressed.
I had a couple friends who bought an od sheep (that eventually would die) and killed it with a knife to try to photograph vultures.
Also, besides the cruelty aspect of sacrificing animals just for the sake of a good photo, there are like it was mentioned conservation aspects involved that shouldn't be forget. Feeding wild life during shortage periods not only accustoms wild animals to humans but also interfere with natural selection causing genetic "pollution" by spreading weaker genes to future generations.

I have do desire to use live bait to get a photograph--but I have no objection to others doing it. It is just not for me.

Baiting or feeding? I don't mind feeding. I do mind baiting where the animal being baited never gets the food. I see no reason to tease an animal but I have no problem with feeding them.

Anthony Medici wrote:Baiting or feeding? I don't mind feeding. I do mind baiting where the animal being baited never gets the food. I see no reason to tease an animal but I have no problem with feeding them.

I agree. I've heard that birders banding owls use mice to lure in the owls - they don't get to eat them! The birders will make notes about them being under their ideal weight, though.

ChrisDodds wrote:Let's not forget: the owls are here because they are starving.

This is often true during invasion years but this year it for the most part the birds are doing very well and not starving. Every report I've read has shown that owls killed by cars and examined have been well fed. They have moved south this year because of the crash in the vole population in the boreal forests but they are finding much food in the south at least up to this point.

Jim Zipp wrote:

ChrisDodds wrote:Let's not forget: the owls are here because they are starving.

This is often true during invasion years but this year it for the most part the birds are doing very well and not starving. Every report I've read has shown that owls killed by cars and examined have been well fed. They have moved south this year because of the crash in the vole population in the boreal forests but they are finding much food in the south at least up to this point.

Perhaps some photographers can take the credit

Perhaps the perspective of a non-birder and non-photographer is worth something, so I asked my wife.

Her opinion is that there is no difference from using bird feeders. In addition, the fed mice have got to help these wintering birds make it through the winter. She had no negative feelings on using mice as long as the birds were not taunted and teased, never getting the mice.

When northern hawk owls ocassionally show up in the Adirondacks, birders and non-birding locals typically provide mice without debate.

Alexandre Vaz wrote:As others already said before I think you cant compare feeding birds with seeds of fruits with using mammals, reptiles or other animals as live bait.
I recognize this is not objective, but I'm not impressed if someone use worms, insects or even small fish as bait, but when it comes to using animals closer to me, like mammals, I get very impressed.
I had a couple friends who bought an od sheep (that eventually would die) and killed it with a knife to try to photograph vultures.
Also, besides the cruelty aspect of sacrificing animals just for the sake of a good photo, there are like it was mentioned conservation aspects involved that shouldn't be forget. Feeding wild life during shortage periods not only accustoms wild animals to humans but also interfere with natural selection causing genetic "pollution" by spreading weaker genes to future generations.

I feed many friends beef, pork and chicken - summer BBQ's are great!

Chris:

After the BBQ, did any of your friends complain about weaker genes?

Forget about the debate of whether feeding wild animals be it birds at a bird feeder or owls in a field. What about the ethics of baiting / feeding just to get a photo? I know the ethics of using photoshop to alter images was discussed ( Steve Bloom topic )...but what about luring animals in so that you can take that photo. Does this not somehow alter the reality of the photo?