Canadian Geographic baiting in wildlife photography poll

Blck-shouldered Kite wrote:
  I agree with every aspect of what you wrote.  Why use the word "baiting"?  Why not just use the word "feeding."?  

Hey, its rough out there….even in the good times.  So why not give wildlife a chance whenever we can?   Talk to you later .

jeff Parker wrote:I really do not understand what problem people have with baiting animals for observation or photography.  Unless it's live animals being fed to owls and the welfare of the bait is what is upsetting.

Bird feeders are baiting.  I don't know about other states, but in Texas baiting deer to KILL them is big business.

OntPhoto wrote:

Words can be used to serve an authors bias or agenda or for propaganda.  I hear the word "circus" used to describe places where many photographers are gathered around photographing owls (maybe one or two are feeding the owls).  The word "circus" here is used to paint a situation that they do not like, in a negative light.  If you ask the photographers, they will mostly say it was an awesome experience to see such a majestic bird up close flying around etc. 

With owls, people are not baiting it in to capture or kill it. The owl is free to go. Hunters as one person mentioned, sometimes do bait wildlife in to KILL them.  Fishermen (not the catch and release folks) do use "bait" to catch fish to KILL them for food. 

jeff Parker wrote:If you really step back and look at it, all of Bosque del Apache is baiting.  Corn is planted for the birds and ponds are flooded for the birds.  Neither situation is natural.  Same for winter feeding on the National Elk Refuge. What about hummingbird feeders?  This is all baiting.

There are many issues I don't agree with but I can usually at least see where the other side is coming from.  The uproar over baiting completely puzzles me.

OntPhoto wrote:I personally would not try and feed potentially dangerous animals such as coyotes which can then become a nuisance leading to their demise. I saw this first hand on the Cabot Trail where a moose hunting guide was throwing pieces of a sandwich to a coyote. Next morning I see the trail where the coyote was fed closed and the warden looking for it. Apparently, the coyote started to follow hikers on the trail that morning.

However, people do feed red foxes. Not much danger from them. From what I hear, that is one reason why some red foxes up in Algonquin Park are so tame. People feed them. People feed deer too. But of course do NOT feed wild black bears or you will have a problem on your hands. So, it really depends on the behaviour of the species.

Andrew_5488 wrote:

jeff Parker wrote:If you really step back and look at it, all of Bosque del Apache is baiting.  Corn is planted for the birds and ponds are flooded for the birds.  Neither situation is natural.  Same for winter feeding on the National Elk Refuge. What about hummingbird feeders?  This is all baiting.

There are many issues I don't agree with but I can usually at least see where the other side is coming from.  The uproar over baiting completely puzzles me.

Bosque del Apache was created to help waterfowl during migration. National Elk Refuge was created to help elk during winter.
No baiting, feeding.
You could argue in case of National Elk Refuge since now they sell hunting licenses there.

Andrew_5488 wrote:

jeff Parker wrote:If you really step back and look at it, all of Bosque del Apache is baiting.  Corn is planted for the birds and ponds are flooded for the birds.  Neither situation is natural.  Same for winter feeding on the National Elk Refuge. What about hummingbird feeders?  This is all baiting.

There are many issues I don't agree with but I can usually at least see where the other side is coming from.  The uproar over baiting completely puzzles me.

Bosque del Apache was created to help waterfowl during migration. National Elk Refuge was created to help elk during winter.
No baiting, feeding.
You could argue in case of National Elk Refuge since now they sell hunting licenses there.

Andrew_5488 wrote:

OntPhoto wrote:I personally would not try and feed potentially dangerous animals such as coyotes which can then become a nuisance leading to their demise. I saw this first hand on the Cabot Trail where a moose hunting guide was throwing pieces of a sandwich to a coyote. Next morning I see the trail where the coyote was fed closed and the warden looking for it. Apparently, the coyote started to follow hikers on the trail that morning.

However, people do feed red foxes. Not much danger from them. From what I hear, that is one reason why some red foxes up in Algonquin Park are so tame. People feed them. People feed deer too. But of course do NOT feed wild black bears or you will have a problem on your hands. So, it really depends on the behaviour of the species.

Do not feed black bears or you'll have problems on your hands ?!
Usually it'd the animal who ends up with a "problem" like death or relocation.

SantaFeJoe wrote:Bosque also allows hunting as a priority use:

http://www.fws.gov/refuge/bosque_del_ap ... /hunt.html

Joe

Andrew Kandel wrote:It's not a popular viewpoint, but for me sending a mouse to its death for the purposes of taking a photo is antithetical to my love of nature photography.  I'm not a vegan so I'm sure somebody could find hypocrisy in my statement, but it's my own personal code.  Otherwise I don't have a problem with baiting whether it be bird seed or audio (used in moderation).

jeff Parker wrote:

Andrew_5488 wrote:

jeff Parker wrote:If you really step back and look at it, all of Bosque del Apache is baiting.  Corn is planted for the birds and ponds are flooded for the birds.  Neither situation is natural.  Same for winter feeding on the National Elk Refuge. What about hummingbird feeders?  This is all baiting.

There are many issues I don't agree with but I can usually at least see where the other side is coming from.  The uproar over baiting completely puzzles me.

Bosque del Apache was created to help waterfowl during migration. National Elk Refuge was created to help elk during winter.
No baiting, feeding.
You could argue in case of National Elk Refuge since now they sell hunting licenses there.

I'm trying to understand.  So if you feed the animals to help them it's OK.  But if you take their picture while you feed them it's bad.  Is that the correct position?

What about seed feeders and hummingbird feeders that are just for the joy of watching the animals.  Baiting or feeding?  Help me out here.

Andrew_5488 wrote:

SantaFeJoe wrote:Bosque also allows hunting as a priority use:

http://www.fws.gov/refuge/bosque_del_ap ... /hunt.html

Joe

I'm wondering if this was always the case or rather recent addition.

Andrew Kandel wrote:It's not a popular viewpoint, but for me sending a mouse to its death for the purposes of taking a photo is antithetical to my love of nature photography.  I'm not a vegan so I'm sure somebody could find hypocrisy in my statement, but it's my own personal code.  Otherwise I don't have a problem with baiting whether it be bird seed or audio (used in moderation).

Andrew_5488 wrote:

Andrew Kandel wrote:It's not a popular viewpoint, but for me sending a mouse to its death for the purposes of taking a photo is antithetical to my love of nature photography.  I'm not a vegan so I'm sure somebody could find hypocrisy in my statement, but it's my own personal code.  Otherwise I don't have a problem with baiting whether it be bird seed or audio (used in moderation).

There's a lot of material about audio being used especially during spring season when it's most effective.
You shouldn't do it. It's putting a lot of stress on birds.

Andrew_5488 wrote:Apparently 38% thinks it's OK.And I thought that only we americans are stupid.

OntPhoto wrote:Here is an interesting thread on the subject.

http://www.rudypohl.com/2015/02/owl-baiting-is-it-really-wildlife-photography-ottawa/

One from the local birding club.  Scroll down to snowy owl workshops.  Someone found a snowy owl workshop ad in Kjiji and that's what started this one.  I read it with an open mind.  Every winter it comes up. 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/379992938552/