Handholding Canon Mark 2 superteles

Currently the  500/4 mark I is my supertele, and I use it nearly always on a tripod & gimbal.  I shoot mostly birds, but pretty much any mix from wildfowl & waders, to bird on a stick, to birds in flight (although this mainly handheld with the 400/5.6)
When the mark 2 superteles were announced my first reaction was that, finance allowing, I would eventually upgrade ot the 600/4 II, saving me a converter when I currently reach for a 1.4x, or using a 1.4x when I currently would use 2x.  Less use of teleconvertors then but pretty much carry on shooting as I am ie tripod & gimbal with a lens of similar weight to what I'm used to.

Now I've been thinking about whether, with the reduced weight and improved image stabilisation,  I could take more benefit from the 500/4 II.  The reduction in weight versus my current 500/4 mark I isn't that dramatic alone, but if I could get away from the tripod to handheld and/or a monopod it would make a more significant difference.

So for those with series 2 superteles that handhold, what is and isn't possible handheld or with monopod.  How does it work out ?

The new 500 Canons aren't selling well according to my pals at the stores.  The new 600's are jumping off the shelves.

The reason is the 600 was dramatically reduced in weight, but the 500 wasn't.  

The new IS isn't really going to make much difference for handheld BIF with the 500mm because your shutter speeds at f 5.6 and say 400 ISO are going to be about 1/1600th sec in clear daylight, the successful light to do BIF.

Handheld on say the 600mm or 800mm is possible, but not generally practical with a 1.3 or harder crop camera.  Your field of view is just too limited to grab and track much.  But if you start with a perched bird and await its flight, tracking becomes much more successful.

With no TC and any non crop camera like the new 1DX and 5D Mark III, then the 600 makes huge sense, which is why Canon really nailed the successful sales as a hugely expensive package deal.

Doesn't make sense to me because the full frame cameras employ the worst part of the lens around the outer perimeter.   I prefer a 1.3 crop camera with a version 1 lens just for practicality.

But if you're loaded, who cares?

Should have added that I'm shooting a 1D4, and won't be likely to change bodies for a good long while.
Completely understand that IS won't help for bif, but for perched birds - what's the limit there when handholding the new 500 ?

Loaded would be nice, but I don't have that luxury so I've got to get this right. That's why I'm asking here first before getting anywhere near to spending my hard earned.

I like birds but am not a birder. I too had the 500 f4 before and rarely used it hand held. When the new superteles were announced, I booked both the 500 and the 600. The older 600 was impossible for me to handle but there definitely were times when I felt the 500 was not long enough (1D series). When the dealer called me to ask which one I wanted to buy it was a bit of a dilemma for sure.

Then I looked up the specs and the reviews. Since I was managing well with the heft of the 500 and the new 600 weighs exactly the same, that was not an issue any more. Most people do not hand hold these lenses for long periods any way. Then I looked at the reach, the quality and the reviews and it clinched it for me. Went for the 600 and no regrets.

Just returned from Tanzania and my decision was well vindicated. The 600 will give  you a longer reach and with a 1.4X, is as good as the bare 800 and  with a 2X is almost as good as the  800 plus 1.4X, and offers the same apertures. The bokeh is superb, focus is extremely fast and works very well with a full frame camera.

Of course it costs quite a bit more which I believe is the only issue to think about.

Pradeep

Colin,

I would definitely rent any new lens before making a purchase decision as something as your ability to hand hold a super tele is very personal. Only you can make that assessment. Also consider that you may keep this lens for many years and that your ability to handhold may decline over the years...

Best, Joerg

Joerg Rockenberger wrote:Colin,

I would definitely rent any new lens before making a purchase decision as something as your ability to hand hold a super tele is very personal. Only you can make that assessment. Also consider that you may keep this lens for many years and that your ability to handhold may decline over the years...

Best, Joerg

Excellent suggestion about renting. I used to have the same setup as you and have the new 600L now and I can handhold it at times (I am NOT strong - 155lb, 5'6"). So yes, it can be done, but not by me for extended periods of time. 

-- Vivek

I'll have a look at renting, see what's available. Before I went that far I wanted a sense of what type of shooting and at what shutter speeds could be done handheld - allowing that this will vary person to person.

When we talk about hand holding these lenses, I am assuming it must mean only for the duration of the shot.You will then need to put it down somewhere (bean bag/tripod/car seat). You cannot walk around for hours with one of these hanging around your neck from a strap with a 1 series camera attached - that's a short cut to a chiropractor's office. Thus if the requirement is to aim, focus and shoot, all of which should normally take no more than a minute or two, it the new 600 is eminently hand-holdable. If you then have to wait for the next opportunity while still holding the rig in your hand, it will be a problem, but equally so for both superteles.

I took some leopard shots with a 1DX and the 600 on my recent trip to Tanzania while holding the rig in my hands and leaning out of the window and keeping parallel to the vehicle, a very awkward position. The shutter speed was 1/125 and the problem there was subject movement (the leopard was walking towards us). I got quite a few keepers. If the subject is still,  you can easily do 1/60 hand holding, the IS is that good.

In the end then, it becomes a matter of personal preference and price.

Thanks guys, I'm still thinking 600/4 then if it's equally as hand-holdable as the 500/4.

Hand holding for me with my old 500mm version 1 and a 1.3 crop body  was no problem down to about 1/80th sec.  The problem wasn't movement on my end, but movement from the bird.  So I never shot at those speeds unless desperate.

Even for birds just chilling I'd normally keep my settings at 5.6, max clean ISO for the camera, and as fast as I could get.  With my current Mark IV Canon that is a base shutter of 1/3200th sec.  I await the decisive moment when the bird pops up after a bath or whatever.  Then I have wing stopping shutter speed.

IMO opinion, for the average income guy, the new Canon 500mm f4 version II is not worth the 2X pricetag over the older model.  The version II 600 and 400 are so much lighter, that would be different if you have the $.

Colin Inman wrote:Thanks guys, I'm still thinking 600/4 then if it's equally as hand-holdable as the 500/4.

I forgot to add, I am a bit shorter than Vivek here so if I can hand hold, most people can.

Pradeep

I am a bird guide and photography guide. When guiding bird tours I have to have a scope and tripod over one shoulder. I played with both the new 600 and 500 on a black rapid strap. I went for the 500 because of the slightly closer focusing distance which makes a hell of a difference in cloud forest and the weight difference on a shoulder strap. I can do 12 hour days with it handheld which would be impossible with the 600. I admit though that if I was going to do a lot more in savanna or desert, then the 600 would have been the one for me.

Cheers,
Iain

Colin Inman wrote:Thanks guys, I'm still thinking 600/4 then if it's equally as hand-holdable as the 500/4.

That is a good way to go IMO.

Alternate would be a used 800mm.

I bought a 500 II about 6 months ago for handheld shooting from boats and as a hiking lens. I have yet to put it on a tripod, except for testing. Being completely mobile (climbing up on a ledge, looking for a clear shot in thick brush, or crawling down a bank to the edge of a river type of shooting) with a super tele was a new experience and enabled me to get shots I would have missed if I had taken the time to adjust one of my tripods. ON my last three shoots, my 600I never came out of its bag. I was very concerned about going from a 600 to a 500 and at the same time switching from 1D4 to 1DX/5D3, but I have been very pleased with the results.
I also recommend renting the two lens to determine which lens works best for your photography.