Flash Sync speed for outdoor photography??

First, greetings to this site!! I just registered after seeing the link on Art Morris' site. Looking forward to many fun times!!

Now, I am getting closer and closer to finally buying a DSLR. With the announcement of the new Nikon D2H and the prospect of used D1H's and D1X's eventually coming around for sale, I am wondering just how important flash sync speed is.

I shoot primarily birds and wildlife, and a smattering of landscape. When I am out shooting, it is always in either AM or PM light. Up to this point I have never used a flash for anything.

My asking this is based on a report that the new D2H will only have a 1/250 speed, whereas the D1H has a 1/500.....

Since after two years of shooting stuff with my F5 and no flash, should I not worry about the slower sync speed if I were to buy a D2H???

I appreciate any feedback or advice!!!

MANY thanks!!!

Mark in Austin

Hi Mark and welcome to NSN!!

While I find myself using the 1/500 sync speed of the EOS 1D quite often I also have a slower syncing camera and find that the high speed sync flash works quite well using the better beamer.

Though in high speed sync the flash range is greatly reduced, the beamer helps with this.

Nikon's new flash has this high speed sync feature so it may be a compromise if you are looking for more important features that are offered in the D2H.

If you are used to the F5 then you probalby won't have a problem anyway.

As Greg said, the 1/500 is great and sometimes I wish it would be even faster. This is mitigated by high speed sync though which the Nikon flash system does very well although at the cost of flash output. On the other hand the D2H has some phenomenal features - I really like the 802.11B wireless image transfer capability with the add on module plus many of the other features that would probably have me in line to upgrade if I were a D1H shooter.

The D2H syncs at 1/250 using a standard non-pulsed mode. Above 1/250, the camera is suppose to automatically go into pulsed mode (high speed sync mode) and will allow you to shoot up to it's maximum shutter speed of 1/8000. It will be able to control the flash's output through i-ttl, which no one really knows about beyond the spec sheet. The camera is suppose to be able to control the output of the flash but obviously the flash output is reduced because it is using a pulsed mode.

The D1H and D1X sync at 1/500 using a standard non-pulsed mode. Above 1/500, the cameras need to have the flash put into pulsed mode manually. In this mode, the camera is not able to control the flash's output as this mode on these cameras are totally manual. Additionally, the D1X, with its lower base ISO of 125, as a 2/3 stop advantage before it must use high speed (FP) mode.

That said, I've been shooting with a D1H for over two years and with a D100 for over a year. I'm very comfortable with the 1/500 limitation of the D1H. I have never put the camera/flash into FP mode but I might have an opportunity this weekend to try it. (I'm shooting hummingbirds.) The 1/180 limitation of the D100 usually means no flight images with flash. (Or expected them to be partially blurred.) It also can not used the FP mode at all. I have used the flash with this camera by using ND filters when the light is stronger but I stay away from flight images.

My plan is to purchase the D2H when it becomes available. I feel the 1/250 base limitation shouldn't be so bad that I have problems with it. And I am also hopeful that the i-ttl high speed mode works as stated. I know the D100 will be sold. What I'm not sure of is what my second body will be. I could keep the D1H. I could get a second D2H. I could get a D1X. Or I could wait for the next camera produced, a possible D2X. These choices are very similar to your problem deciding on a body to purchase.

I'm split between the D1H or D1X. Off topic, I'd like a higher resolution camera as the second camera. But I'd have to buy a D1X where as I have the D1H. I know where the limitations of both cameras is and flash sync I am not worried about. Longer exposure images I worry about. That said, the only camera out now that easily does 1+ second exposure without obvious noise issues (w/Nikon) is the D100. The D2H should be the same or better on this. I think this issue will lead me to a camera before the flash sync issue does, at least for the higher resolution body.

That leaves me not answering your question. That's because I feel all three bodies (D1H, D1X and D2H) are very usable and each has its own limitations. What will be best for me is avoiding the thing that annoys me the most. I just haven't decided what that thing is.

WOW!!!

To Greg, E.J., and Anthony...

MANY thanks for the extremely imformative replies!! WOW!!!!!

I still wish that the D2H had just another MP or two.....the buffer size and capture rate are right where I want them.

It looks like when the $$$ becomes available, I may finally buy a digital SLR..though my F5 will still have a home for some time...

Thanks again gentlemen!!!!!

Mark in Austin

mwagner1 wrote:WOW!!!
...though my F5 will still have a home for some time...

Don't be so sure about that. Many of us converts found that after a year or more, that we hadn't even picked up our film cameras and decided to sell them.

HAHAHAHA!!!!

Probably true....or at least until the Velvia and Provia runs out.....unless some starving photo student in our local camera club wants it!!

Cheers,

Mark in Austin

mwagner1 wrote:Probably true....or at least until the Velvia and Provia runs out.....unless some starving photo student in our local camera club wants it!!

I ended up giving away a half a freezer of film

mwagner1 wrote:HAHAHAHA!!!!

Probably true....or at least until the Velvia and Provia runs out.....unless some starving photo student in our local camera club wants it!!

Cheers,

Mark in Austin

I still have 20 rolls of each! And have so for 18 months!!

Digital is ADDICTING!!

LOL,

I am accepting any donations of unloved Velvia or Provia in any size up to 5x7.

Bob

I too gave away all my Fuji film, both the 35mm and the 120 and 220mm. Since I had already spent the money in the purchase of said film, I decided not to spend any MORE on processing, storage, and time to accomplish the scanning!
Am I sorry? Definitely not. The digital images are as good or better in these sizes and there are none of the delays and filing, and costs, and time issues any more.
Additionally, but not to start any problems, I also sold all my "other" 35mm camera gear and lenses, and all of my medium format gear. Now the only fim camera I own is my 4x5 large format, and all those exciting lenses and film plane manipulations.
By the way, my "new" digital camera has a high speed sync capability of anything up to 1/16,000 of a second shutter speed. When I want to use daylight sync for a portrait at a relatively large aperture, or a catch-light in the subjects eye, or to help reduce or elimate shadows, this allows a major control feature. Therefore, my flash-fill subjects are controlled with fill-flash to the degree I want them to be.
Maybe a check of features you really want is necessary before you purchase any digital camera, as you will be buying into a "system" when you proceed. Consideration of your subject interests and the anticipation of how to light them will probably influence your ultimate choices. I am very happy with the changes I made in this regard.

I recently switched over from the Nikon D1X to the Canon 1Ds (needed the higher resolution). One thing that made me pause was the 1/250 Sync Speed on the Canon vs. the 1/500 Sync Speed on the Nikon.

I like the higher Sync Speed with bird photography and thought my new camera was crippled until someone showed me how to trick the camera to accept "High Speed Flash" using the Canon 550 Flash Unit.

It seems to work, but I am suspicious.
How are "Sycn Speed" and. High Speed Flash different?

Thanks,
Henry
http://www.henrydomke.com

Synced Flash = Shutter opens, flash fires, shutter closes
High Speed sync = Flash turns on, shutter opens, shutter closes, flash turns off.

So in the high speed sync case, the shutter duration is not important as it is on for the entire duration of the shutter. This takes a lot more power and therefore the flash range is reduced. It also reduces the action freezing potential of the flash as the flash is on for a relatively long time compared to synchronized flash.

E.J. Peiker wrote:High Speed sync = Flash turns on, shutter opens, shutter closes, flash turns off.

EJ simplifies here, for good reason, since the better explanation is long. But I don't like the idea of saying the shutter opens then closes (above the sync speed, that is). The shutter in most (all?) modern cameras has two curtains. The first opens the shutter and the second closes it. At slow speeds (below the sync speed), the second curtain doesn't start moving until sometime after the first curtain is fully open. The curtains always move at essentially the same speed (though I wouldn't surprised if some cameras vary the speed somewhat). Below the sync speed, the effective shutter speed is controlled by the time between the when the first curtain starts to move and when the second one starts to move; in this realm, the second curtain never moves while the first one is moving. This means there is always a time (even if very short) when the entire film plane is open to the lens; this is the time when the flash fires(with an extremely short duration). Above the sync speed, the second curtain starts moving before the first is all the way open. the effective shutter speed is controlled by the gap between the curtains. However, this means that the film plane (or sensor) is never completely exposed to the lens, which in turn means that an essentially instantaneous flash burst will not reach the whole image, but result in a band across the image. Somebody then came up with the idea of high speed sync, in which the flash could be fired for a longer period of time (but with reduced power output). In this mode, the flash starts to fire before the first curtain starts to move, and keeps firing until the second curtain has finished moving. (This actually harkens back to the days before electronic flash units!)

Oy, that was complicated, wasn't it!

-Paul

Just trying to keep it simple Paul

E.J. and Paul,
Thanks for the explation of how "Sync Speed" and High Speed Flash different theoretically.

Now, from a practical point of view how does it matter? I gather the power output of the light is lower (lower Guide Number?) and I would guess batteries drain faster, but does it work as well?

From a function point of view is there a difference between 1/500th Sync Speed and 1/500th High Speed Flash? Can I see it?

Thanks!
Henry

Other than lower flash power, one difference you might be able to see in some cases is that the flash will not freeze motion in high speed sync mode--in that mode, you depend on the shutter speed to stop motion, and it can't do that as effectively as the flash in the normal sync mode.

-Paul

hdomke wrote:From a function point of view is there a difference between 1/500th Sync Speed and 1/500th High Speed Flash? Can I see it?

Yes there is a big difference, lets look at the two cases in a flash as main light situation:

Situation:

Flash as main light shot of a subject that is moving:

Situation 1:
1/500 with Synced flash - the output of the flash unit in the vast majority of situations is much faster than 1/500 - typically between 1/1000 and 1/20000 depending on the amount of power required to gain a proper exposure. Since the flash is providing the illumination source in this situation, the effective time that the light is on the subject is MUCH less than the time the shutter is open thereby freezing the motion. Lets say it took a flash burst of 1/5000 sec to properly illuminate the subject - the effective photograph you get is a 1/5000 sec image even though the shutter was open 1/500 of a second. As another example set your camera up in a totally dark room and set the shutter speed to 30 seconds. Then turn on the light for 1 second - what is recorded on the film/sensor is the 1 second that the light was on...

Situation 2:
1/500 with high speed sync - here the flash is on the entire time that the shutter is open so basically you are recording all of the motion in the subject during that 1/500 of a second. Many things will still be stopped at 1/500 but things that are moving quickly or are close to the camera and moving will not appear frozen. In our analogy above, you turn on the light then trip the shutter for 30 seconds and then turn off the light - a VERY different result.

Hope this helps explain the difference.

Thanks E.J., that helps a lot.
But let me throw a "real world" situation to compare Flash Sync with High Speed Flash. Let's assume I will be shooting shutter priority and have the speed set to 1/500th. The flash will not be the primary light, but will be used as fill-flash.

Bird Photography.
600 mm lens
Flash mounted on a flash bracket and flash extender (Better Beamer) used.

In this situation, would true Flash Sync of 1/500th (like the Nikon D1X) produce different results that High Speed Flash (like the Canon 1Ds)?

Thanks,
Henry

hdomke wrote:In this situation, would true Flash Sync of 1/500th (like the Nikon D1X) produce different results that High Speed Flash (like the Canon 1Ds)?

Possibly yes. But the main difference will be from the flash output. Since the flash duration is a lot longer in high speed sync, the effective illumination distance of the flash is less than it is in a synced flash picture. Since the flash has to deplete its capacitor over a much longer time period, the flash is engineered to put out less illumination in high speed sync than in synced flash where it con pop its entire amount of stored power in that short period that the flash fires in. there is no wasted power before and after the shutter curtain fires. In tests that I have done, the flash range in high speed sync is usually about 2/3 of what it is in synced mode.