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by Karl Egressy on Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:43 am
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I'm somewhat disappointed with the BIF performance of the Z8. 
I was shooting Ospreys against the sky so far in around a nest It worked well.
This time I was shooting Ospreys, Terns and Great Egrets. When the Ospreys or Terns especially flew close to the tree line or close to the water, the Z8 failed to focus on them. 
There was a Belted Kingfisher flying in between two poles and fishing and all the shots came out blurry
I had to focus manually when it was perching on one of the poles. 
The focusing was much better with the D850 IMO.
Here is my setting.
OF-ON:  3D Animal detection
Fn2 button: AF on small point
Shutter button: AF-Wide small.
Focus tracking with lock-on 3
Subject motion: Steady.
 I mainly focus with the shutter when the bird flies against trees. etc.
I mainly focus on OF-ON button for everything else.
Thanks for your help, if you do.
 

by Axel Hildebrandt on Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:35 am
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I can't help with the settings but remember that Jan Wegener had similar issues with the Z9. He posted YouTube videos and how he adjusted the camera to make it work for BIF.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L103gKExcE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB8zRWvQCKc
Axel Hildebrandt
 

by Anthony Medici on Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:30 am
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The one thing that bothers me the most about the settings you list is the shutter setting. It seems to me that if you have the shutter active for focusing then it will ALWAYS use what you have set there for focusing since you always need to press the shutter to take the picture.

Questions: what is OF-ON? Is that the AF-ON button? Are you in AF continuous or AF single? (I can't tell from what you state.)

Side note: To my knowledge, if you have subject tracking on for one setting it will be active for any mode that uses subject tracking. (ie: 3D and AF-Wide small but not single point in the modes you have listed.)
Tony
 

by Karl Egressy on Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:57 pm
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Anthony Medici wrote: The one thing that bothers me the most about the settings you list is the shutter setting. It seems to me that if you have the shutter active for focusing then it will ALWAYS use what you have set there for focusing since you always need to press the shutter to take the picture.

Questions: what is OF-ON? Is that the AF-ON button? Are you in AF continuous or AF single? (I can't tell from what you state.)

Side note: To my knowledge, if you have subject tracking on for one setting it will be active for any mode that uses subject tracking. (ie: 3D and AF-Wide small but not single point in the modes you have listed.)
Thanks, Anthony.
My D850 and D500 was set similarly Group autofocus on the shutter button and my choice of autofocus on the back button. . When I push the back button it defeat the focusing option of the shutter button. The third button that I use in the front is for little stationary birds on perches or hiding in the foliage. I always shoot continuous autofocus, never used single autofocus. The problem is in the details. I'll watch Jan's video again and see what he suggest. 
Thanks, Axel.
I can tell you the the setting up of the Canon R5 is more user-friendly. 
I'm a Canon shooter primarily for 30 plus years and a member of Canon Professionals. 
 

by Anthony Medici on Thu Aug 17, 2023 6:55 pm
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I verified that the shutter does NOT have priority so when using other buttons along with the shutter button, the camera will only use the shutter button's assigned focus if no other buttons are overriding it. So the decision to keep the shutter button active is not interfering causing your problem. I tend to keep the shutter button inactive since I find times when I really need to drop into manual focus and leaving the shutter inactive is the fastest way to get into manual focus mode on these cameras.

I tend to use subject tracking with the large box rather than the small box for my default focusing mode since there is less chance of the subject leaving the larger box with my tracking skills. Note that using 3D tracking as a followup mode requires acquisition with subject tracking with the box to either the head or the eye level prior to switching over to 3D tracking. If you don't have the smaller boxes and you switch over, 3D is not likely to be following what you want to follow. Most people don't start with 3D focusing to begin with since it is very much like single point focus. You need to get the single box on the head and keep it there when you start focusing or 3D will pick up the wrong point.

I've also been known to use a custom box rather than large or small. I have used a long slim strip in some circumstances (horizontal more than vertical), a larger than large box and finally a single point sized box. The larger the area used, the slower the initial acquisition will be. But since you need to keep some of the subject in the box for the camera to maintain the subject, you need to watch tossing focus because you failed to keep the box on the subject.

Lastly, I've found that 3D is not an end all mode. I've seen it lose focus because the bird turned its head to a bad angle while the bird was perched on a lone branch with only sky behind the bird.
Tony
 

by Kim on Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:00 pm
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Hello Karl. Have you looked at Steve Perry's video on how to set up the Z8?

https://backcountrygallery.com/my-z8-an ... otography/

I am waiting to get my Z8, it is on back order so I am reading all I can find on the settings for birds.
 

by Karl Egressy on Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:06 pm
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Kim wrote: Hello Karl. Have you looked at Steve Perry's video on how to set up the Z8?

https://backcountrygallery.com/my-z8-an ... otography/

I am waiting to get my Z8, it is on back order so I am reading all I can find on the settings for birds.

Thanks Kim. I have watched Steve Perry's video. I'l watch it again. 
 

by Karl Egressy on Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:10 pm
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Anthony Medici wrote: I verified that the shutter does NOT have priority so when using other buttons along with the shutter button, the camera will only use the shutter button's assigned focus if no other buttons are overriding it. So the decision to keep the shutter button active is not interfering causing your problem. I tend to keep the shutter button inactive since I find times when I really need to drop into manual focus and leaving the shutter inactive is the fastest way to get into manual focus mode on these cameras.

I tend to use subject tracking with the large box rather than the small box for my default focusing mode since there is less chance of the subject leaving the larger box with my tracking skills. Note that using 3D tracking as a followup mode requires acquisition with subject tracking with the box to either the head or the eye level prior to switching over to 3D tracking. If you don't have the smaller boxes and you switch over, 3D is not likely to be following what you want to follow. Most people don't start with 3D focusing to begin with since it is very much like single point focus. You need to get the single box on the head and keep it there when you start focusing or 3D will pick up the wrong point.

I've also been known to use a custom box rather than large or small. I have used a long slim strip in some circumstances (horizontal more than vertical), a larger than large box and finally a single point sized box. The larger the area used, the slower the initial acquisition will be. But since you need to keep some of the subject in the box for the camera to maintain the subject, you need to watch tossing focus because you failed to keep the box on the subject.

Lastly, I've found that 3D is not an end all mode. I've seen it lose focus because the bird turned its head to a bad angle while the bird was perched on a lone branch with only sky behind the bird.
Thanks, Antony. I will collect all the info available including your suggestions and will come up with some customized solution for my need.
I just looked at the Osprey images, almost all of them sharp against the tree line. Meanwhile the Terns are almost all OOF. Maybe it's the white color that the camera won't pick up.
 

by Anthony Medici on Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:17 pm
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The camera needs a properly exposed area to focus on. If the area you are trying to focus on is very dark or very bright, enough to loss detail, the camera would definitely have problems focusing. It might also have a problem if there was too little contrast in the area.
Tony
 

by DChan on Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:10 pm
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Anthony Medici wrote: The camera needs a properly exposed area to focus on. If the area you are trying to focus on is very dark or very bright, enough to loss detail, the camera would definitely have problems focusing. It might also have a problem if there was too little contrast in the area.
You can find info like that in the camera manual of any AF cameras. Try focusing something all black and all white with no texture and see what happens.
 

by flygirl on Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:12 am
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I do private Zoom classes on the Z9/Z8 if interested.  First, not sure what your shutter speed was, but a min shutter speed I use in that situation is 1/3200.  Also, I always have the AF tracking with lock on set to 5 and erratic.  That really makes a big difference.  The 3d AF takes lots of practice, much more so than the other modes.  I use it most of the time now, but it took me about 8 months or so to say that.  Also, I customize my Wide Area modes to the situation.  Like I was tracking Swallow-tailed Kites as they flew down to the water to drink, so I changed the shape to 9x3 and kept the bird within that box with animal detection on.  It worked very well.  The Z9/Z9 is a journey to learn and I tell all my clients that it might take up to maybe a year to really get used to it, with lots of practice and patience.  Also, remember the new AF modes not only are a hybrid of phase and contrast detection, but color.  Also, if you use the Wide Area modes without subject detection it is like the old group focus, which focuses on the closest subject to the camera. If you are interested in any private instruction please pm me or my email is naturesportal@gmail.com
 

by flygirl on Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:27 am
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Also, whatever button I have setup for an AF mode, it also focuses. I know you can set it so it does not focus, but I think that makes it even more difficult. So if I am using another button to AF, I then keep that pressed and then press the shutter button also, to take the shot. I have my shutter button set to 3d, my AF-ON button set to WideArea C1, subcommand button Widearea C2, fn2 set to FX/DX, fn3 set to Dynamic area small, but all focus as well.
 

by Karl Egressy on Sun Aug 20, 2023 3:23 pm
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Thanks for all the info. It would be nice to set a button to animal autofocus on or off (eye detection on or off) like on my R7.

I would especially thank to Nancy for helping with the setting. My Z8 works much better thanks to Nancy's help.
 

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