New 15" MacBook Pro with Touch Bar range

What is your view on this new range, E.J.?

My initial impression, not having touched one is that I'm a bit underwhelmed.  The only innovative thing is the touchbar and the usability of that remains to be seen.  In every other respect they are underwhelming and really offer nothing that hasn't been available on the Windows side, from a performance perspective, for two years or more for less money.  And where's the touchscreen?

E.J. Peiker wrote:My initial impression, not having touched one is that I'm a bit underwhelmed.  The only innovative thing is the touchbar and the usability of that remains to be seen.  In every other respect they are underwhelming and really offer nothing that hasn't been available on the Windows side, from a performance perspective, for two years or more for less money.  And where's the touchscreen?

My thoughts exactly. My 2013 MBP Retina will have to work harder for a few more years while I assess my needs. At this time, I think that the price tag is not justified. Given that I store files offline anyway, I might have to consider a move back to Windows in the next few years unless Apple starts discounting these which I think is unlikely. The one thing I did like is the ability to drive two 4K monitors simultaneously - that would certainly be helpful.

But as EJ said, I was underwhelmed for sure. I don't think that I will use the touch bar much.

No alternative though ... the only alternative OS is Windows and I (and many others) left that for very good reasons. Not going back, ever, and Apple know it.

So you really think today's OS-X is any better?  I don't.  It's just as buggy, if not more buggy, just as intrusive and Apple routinely orphans both software and hardware at a much higher rate than the PC world does.

If we had a full professional suite of imaging apps for Linux, I'd dump them both.

E.J. Peiker wrote:So you really think today's OS-X is any better? 

It's better for me anyway in as much as I find it much, much easier to work with, installing software is a breeze, I can find my files and I know where stuff is. I had many, many years experience with Windows and the straw that broke the camel's back was the necessity to go and read the paper for 15 minutes every time I booted up while it did heaven knows what in the background whereas Macs just get up and running almost immediately. Windows was forever installing patches and updates and grinding to a halt - I gave up at Win7 and have never regretted it. I am sure there are things Mac could improve on but on the whole I find the user experience simply less frustrating. I have friends who do Windows wrangling for a living and they tell me it is better at X, Y and Z but they are all things I have no need or interest in doing ... and oh yes, the final clincher is the auto-synchronisation of calendars between computers and phones and the solid construction standards. 

baldsparrow wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:So you really think today's OS-X is any better? 

... the straw that broke the camel's back was the necessity to go and read the paper for 15 minutes every time I booted up while it did heaven knows what in the background whereas Macs just get up and running almost immediately. Windows was forever installing patches and updates and grinding to a halt - I gave up at Win7 and have never regretted it. I am sure there are things Mac could improve on but on the whole I find the user experience simply less frustrating. I have friends who do Windows wrangling for a living and they tell me it is better at X, Y and Z but they are all things I have no need or interest in doing ... and oh yes, the final clincher is the auto-synchronisation of calendars between computers and phones and the solid construction standards. 

That stopped with the intro of SSDs on both platforms - both my Win 7 and Win 10 machines are ready before my OSX iMac (also with SSD) is.  I fear that you are basing a current opinion on old info.  My early 2015 RazerBlade Win 10 laptop from power completely off to fully ready to go is less than 10 seconds.  I own both Macs and Windos systems (and iOS systems) and use them all daily.  Most of the Apple only user's complaints about Win systems are often many years old and if they were to use them side by side would realize there is no difference if the systems have the same specs but the problem is that there are no Macs that are even close to what is available in the Windows world if you need or want absolute maximum performance - that's the fundamental problem, not the differences in the OS.  My issue is that the fastest Mac on the planet is less than half the speed in most tasks of a similarly priced PC - it's a real shame for photographers and videographers that tend to need faster machines, a genre that Apple has largely owned but seems to be losing market share in due to not having blazing fast systems available.  Apple has completely lost the graphics workstation market, a market they were strong in but having a MacPro that is three generations out of date is sad - granted it looks cool though :)

As for auto syncing, because iCloud is available to the PC/Win as well, the auto syncing occurs regardless of platform - I run that way and everything whether on Windows, iOS or OSX stays in sync..

E.J. Peiker wrote:

baldsparrow wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:So you really think today's OS-X is any better? 

As for auto syncing, because iCloud is available to the PC/Win as well, the auto syncing occurs regardless of platform - I run that way and everything whether on Windows, iOS or OSX stays in sync..

Fair enough - Windows was awful when I jumped ship and now I am (financially) committed to Mac OS for some years to come ... BUT, I am curious to know what calendar app you sync between iOS and OSX and Windows? Presumably Google? Is there anything else? 

E.J. Peiker wrote:Apple has completely lost the graphics workstation market

The advertising company I work for has just decided to go back to Mac after a few horrible years of PC. And 9 out of 10 graphic files we receive from independent artists and agencies are created on a Mac.

Thank you for all the replies. Pretty much confirms my thoughts. The new MBP does not seem a big leap forward from my current 15" early 2013 MBP with RD. This machine has been a really good work horse but has been showing signs of a problem. Had to do two complete restores because of boot up problems and sometimes takes ages to shut down. It would be hard to change as every bit of computer kit is Mac. iPad, iPhone, Mac Pro, wife's iMac, iPad and iPhone. Guess that is exactly what Apple want 

Before something goes radically wrong I must consider a new one, but the price seems crazy especially if you upgrade some of the options.

Thanks again.

baldsparrow wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:

baldsparrow wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:So you really think today's OS-X is any better? 

As for auto syncing, because iCloud is available to the PC/Win as well, the auto syncing occurs regardless of platform - I run that way and everything whether on Windows, iOS or OSX stays in sync..

Fair enough - Windows was awful when I jumped ship and now I am (financially) committed to Mac OS for some years to come ... BUT, I am curious to know what calendar app you sync between iOS and OSX and Windows? Presumably Google? Is there anything else? 

No need for a third party, Apple offers iCloud for Windows free which includes iCloud Calendar

bryantjl wrote:Thank you for all the replies. Pretty much confirms my thoughts. The new MBP does not seem a big leap forward from my current 15" early 2013 MBP with RD. This machine has been a really good work horse but has been showing signs of a problem. Had to do two complete restores because of boot up problems and sometimes takes ages to shut down. It would be hard to change as every bit of computer kit is Mac. iPad, iPhone, Mac Pro, wife's iMac, iPad and iPhone. Guess that is exactly what Apple want 

Before something goes radically wrong I must consider a new one, but the price seems crazy especially if you upgrade some of the options.

Thanks again.

Oh, I don't think that's the conclusion.  It is a big step forward in computing power from a 2013 MBP, just nowhere near as big of a step as it could have been.  I would expect at least double the perceived speed.  That level of performance was available on the Windows side 2 years ago - that's the issue, not that it isn't a big step.  The 2013 MBP was out of date the day it was introduced from a performance standpoint and this at least gets it up to late 2014 levels in performance.

Interesting comment this morning from one of the very best landscape photographers in the world, Jack Dykinga:

"After years of being an Apple fanboy, it's time to ask, "where's the love?" The new Mac Book Pro is out, minus the very ports that professional photographers need and use regularly. Sure you can use a hub to regain what was once standard...but why? Gone are the USB-3, the HDMI and the handy SD card reader ports. Apple is imposing their will while neglecting standard professional photographer's desires. I have no problem with adding the new USB-C ports, but to trash all legacy ports to make a thinner model named: "Pro" is a deal breaker for this photographer. Time to consider alternatives...."

I held off buying a laptop for travel for over a year and I waited for the "new" MBP" to be announced. I guess it was rumored way back earlier in the year. Now that it is here I don't want to pursue one.

I was on a Galapagos trip this summer with John Shaw and he showed me his new Dell XPS with the gorgeous 4K screen. It has many of the ports that the new MBP is missing. So now I'm leaning toward the new 15" Dell XPS with 4K touch screen for around $2800.00.
Patrick

Must read article that really sums up the issues for photographers so well:
https://www.slrlounge.com/an-open-lette ... king-pros/

Maybe they should rename it MacBook Hobby rather than MacBook Pro because this thing is not conducive to the needs of the pro photographer or videographer.  Here is a really pertinent quote from the article:

"I understand that Apple’s typical approach is to innovate from within rather than ask the client what they want to see in a product. That strategy works fine for mass consumer products but it becomes dangerous and arrogant in the face of a “professional” product. My grievances with the latest line of MacBook Pros stems from the fact that it doesn’t seem like they actually asked any professionals how they use and interact with their products. Professionals are unlike typical users that can quickly adapt to changes. We have mountains of legacy drives and devices that we can’t switch over, not only from a cost standpoint but also because it’s overly onerous to do so and also because alternatives aren’t yet available."

Make sure you stick with the article to where they publish the very pertinent comments from a couple of real working pros. 

In my opinion, Apple has basically become a consumer electronics company primarily for fanboys and fangirls of the brand rather than a company that values it's content creating professionals in the arts.

I use both Microsoft and Apple laptops and desktops. I like the Microsoft OS best, Windows 7 or 10. But I far prefer the hardware design and simplicity of Apple.

I am not up on the latest Microsoft laptops. In the olden days, Microsoft laptops, specifically my many Sony Vaios, had a huge brick of a charger, with a ton of bulky wiring. When I saw the nice little charging system on the first Mac Air, I switched to the Apple brand on laptops. I do run Windows 7 on my Mac Air. I still have that very first Mac Air, and it still works, but slow mo. Yes, it is a hobby book.

Apple seems to be doing a lot with their iPhones. Maybe most of their R&D goes there.

Since your intense disdain for Apple MacBooks, EJ, what are you currently using for a laptop?

Steve Cirone wrote: Since your intense disdain for Apple MacBooks, EJ, what are you currently using for a laptop?

It's not relly disdain, it's more of a serious disappointment and not a system built for professional graphics work - it's a gimmicky eye candy system for fanboys.

I'm using a RazerBlade 14" - it has it's shortcomings, primarily battery life and the large charging brick that you mentioned, but other than that it runs circles around any computer made by Apple and that includes the Mac Pro, has a 4K touchscreen, and is in a black anodized rugged all metal chassis and build quality similar to Apple.  Now that I upgraded the Win 10 home that it came with with the much more customizable and less intrusive Win 10 Pro, I'm a lot happier with the OS than I was.  I'd rather run Win 7 on it but then I would lose the touchscreen.

E.J. Peiker wrote:. . . .   I'd rather run Win 7 on it but then I would lose the touchscreen.

E.J. What do you do with the touch screen?

signgrap wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:. . . .   I'd rather run Win 7 on it but then I would lose the touchscreen.

E.J. What do you do with the touch screen?

All sorts of things - basically it lets you operate the PC like it were an iPad in tight spaces where there is no room for a mouse and it's uncomfortable to use the track pad - like on an airplane seat/tray.  I just use one of those pens that has a touchscreen tip to keep from getting the screen all goopy.

Some YouTube fun (via SAR) about the new MacBook Pros:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XSC_UG5_kU