1Ds II batteries-run completely out?

I picked up a used 1DsII, but I've only had cameras with Lithium batteries. Should I run the batteries completely out before re-charging?
Thanks!

Actually you should occasionally run the condition cycle which is an even deeper depletion than the camera is capable of.

Thanks, E.J.; by condition cycle, are you referring to the "refresh" button on the charger?

Yup, at least every 10th charge and more often if you rarely run the batteries to empty in the camera.

Thanks alot for your help!

Is it also necessary to run the BP 511 battery for the 40D, etc. to empty? The charger I received with the camera doesn't have a "refresh" button so I guess the only way to do this is to turn off the auto shut off in camera and empty the battery that way, Yes?

Thanks
Ken

Ken, no! In fact they will last much longer if you can avoid it as those are Lithium ion batteries.

As I understand it, Lithium's last longer and perform better if they are charged frequently and are not run down completely, whereas NiMh must be drained completely periodically for best life and performance.

As I understand it, many of the modern rechargable batteries will prefer to be recharged before they get much below 50% charge level. The guys working on batteries for cars say that if you keep the charge above about 50% then the number of charge cycles is MUCH greater than if you deplete before charging (think of your car battery that only needs to deliver a small percentage of it capacity before being recharged and they last many years with thousands of charge cycles).

However, if you do not use the batteries nearly every day, as you would with a car, then you do need to periodically condition as E.J. has stated. There is, also the problem of over charging and variations from cell-to-cell within a battery. Some of the batter chargers monitor the voltage of each cell in the battery and if one cell gets fully charged first, as is almost certain to happen, then they actually drain it a bit to bring it down to match the other cells. You do not want a cell to go into reverse charge as that will kill the battery.

There is some very interesting work being done in the area of battery chemistry and design and it's likely that within a few years you will see batteries, of about AA size, able to deliver 300A or more -- they are at about 120A now (Lithium Nanophosphate). The nano technology that permits plate area to be hundreds of times greater are set to make second generation hybrid cars possible with even better fuel mileage AND performace (accelleration) that would be hard to match with even the most powerful gasoline engines. How about a battery pack capable of delivering 1000 horse power!

Brian

Car batteries are Lead Acid - a very different animal and yes they should not go below 50% and Never ever fully discharged because it will irreparably harm the cells.

NiCad are the original rechargeable double A's, They have horrible memory problems and should be fully discharged pretty much every time you use them. i doubt there are many rechargeable NiCad's left but some rechargeable devices like razors or other low cost consumer appliances still use them.

Then there is NiMH which pretty much replaced NiCad. They solve the severe memory problems of NiCads but still suffer from it to a lesser degree. This is what the 1D series prior to the mark III cameras used. The problem is that the camera will stop being able to use the batteries long before they a re fully discharged due to current requirements. Thus the condition button on the charger for those which induces a deep discharge to keep the cells healthy.

Then there's Lithium Ion which almost all current cameras use. These do not suffer from memory like NiCad or NiMH and in fact. they can be fully discharged but this will reduce the number of charge cycles they are capable of however due to current requirements of the camera, even when the camera thinks they are empty they typically have about 20% left so damage from running them to "empty" in the camera is not significant. For maximum longevity of LiIon batteries, running them down to about 40% of full (which is probably more like 20% on your cameras power meter) will ensure the longest possible life. Although LiIon batteries do not lose charge with time like the previous technologies they do lose some. This is minimized by storing them at 40% charge. LiIon batteries that will not be used for a long time also will last the longest at 40% charge.

Brian has covered the future well - batteries of the future will be pretty amazing by today's standards. We are already eeing early ruits of that research in some of the thin film batteries now being used in defices like the iPhone and iPod touch even those are still based on LiIon technology

The biggest problem with Lithium Ion batteries is that they do not tolerate overcharging. Many laptops use a not very smart charging system that keeps the batteries on charge even when being run, for prolonged periods of time, from an AC outlet. I have a two year old Dell laptop (E1505 if I remember) that has had both the batteries die more than a year ago resulting in a lifespan of about a year. My Thinkpad for work, on the other hand, is about the same age and the single original battery, which is also mostly connected to an AS outlet, has nearly the same capacity as when I got it. I can only conclude that Dell uses a stupid charging system and IBM (Lenovo) uses a smarter one. The only parameter in the OS that is different is that I can set the charging system on the Thinkpad to only activate when the battery is below, say, 90% and to stop charging when it is at, say, 98%.

As a side note, this year Formula One has permitted teams to add a system called KERS (kinetic energy recovery system) that is a bit like the hardware added to hybrid cars. The noteable thing about it is not the energy capacity, which is about equal to 2 laptop batteries, but the power it can produce -- about 80HP (60KW). I have not heard what the chemistry and design of the batteries is but suspect the newer generation of high plate area batteries is being used. Going forward and looking at consumer cars, for example, the major road block will not be energy storage (capacity) but power output/input. A battery of only a few KWHrs but capable of 500KW output and charging would make second generation hybrid cars without conventional drive trains and with very small engines possible and practical.

Brian

Brian

Yes the F1 system is interesting. Do note that only two teams are using it - Ferrari and McLaren, neither of which has been competitive this year with the exception of the very last race. KERS is not the cause of the non-competitiveness though.

Neither Ferrari nor McLaren have been very competitive because of mostly aero deficiencies. At this point the KERS system they are permitted to run are probably about a wash in net performance with, perhaps, a slight penalty during qualification but a clear bennefit during the race. During the race they can push the button to get an extra 80HP for passing AND to prevent being passed. Also, the cars with KERS have usually passed other cars on the start when they can gain an extra 80HP when above 100KPH. If F1 permits an increase in capacity and power of the KERS system in the future there is little doubt that ALL the teams will add them.

Brian