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by Scott Fairbairn on Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:41 pm
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I, like many people, was turned off of Adobe with the subscription model they introduced a few years back. My software package of choice is Capture One, but it seems that yearly upgrades with minor features added(for a steep upgrade price) seem to be the route they, and other software manufacturers are taking(ON1Raw, Luminar, etc). If you're with Adobe, you get updates all the time to Lightroom and Photoshop, but you pay monthly. With the others, you don't have to upgrade, but if you upgrade your cameras frequently, then you pretty much have to pay the yearly upgrade which is often not much different in dollar value to Adobes plan.
Anyone else wondering the same thing/
 

by Mark L on Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:14 pm
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In the end the prices even out and/or are "comparable".  I believe that the best approach is to select the software that works best for you and your own workflow and then to pay whatever that vendor charges.

When Adobe switched to the subscription I held back for some time.  However, having started to pay the subscription a bit over 1 year ago I can say that it is great to have both Photoshop and Lightroom complete with constant updates and advancements.  In addition, I actually use the web features to share images with folks managed from within Lightroom.

In the end you have to settle on the software that supports your own needs.

Happy Thanksgiving,
Mark
 

by DChan on Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:57 pm
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Scott Fairbairn wrote:
I, like many people, was turned off of Adobe with the subscription model they introduced a few years back. My software package of choice is Capture One, but it seems that yearly upgrades with minor features added(for a steep upgrade price) seem to be the route they, and other software manufacturers are taking(ON1Raw, Luminar, etc). If you're with Adobe, you get updates all the time to Lightroom and Photoshop, but you pay monthly. With the others, you don't have to upgrade, but if you upgrade your cameras frequently, then you pretty much have to pay the yearly upgrade which is often not much different in dollar value to Adobes plan.
Anyone else wondering the same thing/


I said it before: Capture One is expensive ! And they have fewer features then other do.

I think Thom Hogan also said it might be cheaper to subscribe to Adobe. The only concern I think some people have is they said you would lose the use of your processed files once you end the subscription....just something I've heard but not sure if it's true.
 

by aolander on Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:03 am
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Only the Develop and Map module will be disabled if you cancel Lightroom.

http://asktimgrey.com/2018/03/01/impact-of-canceling-lightroom/
Alan Olander
Minnesota
 

by Ed Cordes on Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:32 am
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I am not surprised by these comments. Stuff can't be free. Way back when Adobe went tot he subscription model I evaluated that I was paying about $200 every other year for PS and $70 every two years for LR. (at least I think that's what it was". Now I pay $120 per year for the package. Updates have been valuable and useful. The basic platform is so powerful that, bottom line is, I am happy so far.
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by Scott Fairbairn on Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:29 pm
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Ed Cordes wrote:
I am not surprised by these comments.  Stuff can't be free. Way back when Adobe went tot he subscription model I evaluated that I was paying  about $200 every other year for PS and $70 every two years for LR. (at least I think that's what it was".  Now I pay $120 per year for the package.  Updates have been valuable and useful.  The basic platform is so powerful that, bottom line is, I am happy so far.


I'm looking at that as well. Adobe is quick to support new cameras, others tend to lag. I love Capture One's capabilities compared to Lightroom. IMO, it is the best raw converter out there, however, there are many more plugins and such available for LR than C1, and the updates for C1 each year are the same or more than the Lightroom/Photoshop subscription, and I can't do everything in C1 that I can with a combination of LR and photoshop. C1's current marketing strategy of "here's 30% off of the next upgrade, that we won't tell you all the features," is not sitting very well with me.
 

by WJaekel on Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:40 pm
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Agreed at some point. But you're hooked to the subscription for the future and delivered to Adobe with your post processing though the pricing for the photo plan admittedly has been fair so far. Beyond that, there have been many proofs that you cannot trust their promisses. It has been discussed here many times. So I still use PS CS6 and LR 6 (if needed) for now and do most of my processing with C1 (or DxO) though they indeed are slower to support new cameras and to introduce new features. That said, I'm not sure if (or when) these companies will follow Adobe's subcription route in the long run, too. C1 has both the subscription and perpetual license model, too. Maybe this indicates a transition to the subcription in the future..

Wolfgang
 

by Hoppy on Sun Nov 29, 2020 2:03 am
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I stopped using Adobe products when they went to the subscription model as I didn't want to get tied into the system.  At the time I was concerned that after a couple of years they would put the prices up significantly although that has not been the case.  My main issue with them now is the loss of being able to continue to use an older version should I cancel the subscription.  I am not sure how often the programme call home to continue as there are times I don't have an internet connection for a couple of months.

I was getting frustrated with the slowness of LR and had tried a few different RAW editors.  I used Capture One 6 for awhile and switched over full time with Capture One 8.  I still used CS6 until I had to update my main computer although I still have it on my laptop.  I now use Capture One 20 with Affinity Photo and a few of the Topaz and Nik plugins.  I am very happy with the quality of the files from Capture One.  I know they are a little slower to introduce new tools, however, when they do they are an excellent implementation.  I used to use the Tony Kuyper panel for luminosity masking quite a lot and that is the main loss of PS for me.

To get to the crux of the issue I agree that if you follow the upgrade model from C1, On1 and others it is the same, if not more, expensive than Adobe.  The advantages are:

1.  You don't have to upgrade every year
2.  Your programme will still continue to function as before.
3.  Don't need an internet connection.
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by E.J. Peiker on Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:16 pm
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The difference is that you have a choice. You can buy C1 as a subscription model just like Adobe or you can buy upgrades when you feel you need it giving you the option to skip a version or two. Additionally, the program keeps working if you buy the perpetual licenses even if you don't upgrade where Adobe stops working completely.
 

by WJaekel on Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:21 pm
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Hoppy wrote:
I stopped using Adobe products when they went to the subscription model as I didn't want to get tied into the system.  At the time I was concerned that after a couple of years they would put the prices up significantly although that has not been the case.  My main issue with them now is the loss of being able to continue to use an older version should I cancel the subscription.  I am not sure how often the programme call home to continue as there are times I don't have an internet connection for a couple of months....


Being locked out from previously used perpetual versions once the subscription is cancelled has been my concern, too and another reason to stay away from the rental model. Since PS CS6 will become part of the Adobe manager in the subcription you cannot just continue with this version after the cancellation. From what I read, you'd need to deinstall ALL Adobe products (including CS6) and reinstall CS6 from the scratch again. Several people evidentally had no problem to reactivate CS6 with their perpetual license number again, after they went through that process. That said, no one knows if this will always work in the future or if Adobe will block the reactivation of CS6 some day. As far as I know, they switched off the server for the activation of CS4, at least.

Wolfgang
 

by Jeff Colburn on Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:33 pm
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Hi,

When Adobe went to subscription I opted out and kept using the versions I bought outright. I just dropped Lightroom for On1 Photo RAW 2021, and between that, Elements 14, Topaz DeNoise AI, SmartPhoto, Particle Shop and Clip Studio, I can do anything I want with my photographs.

Have Fun,
Jeff
Fine Art Prints and Stock Photography of Arizona www.JeffColburn.com See my ebooks in the NatureScapes Store 25 Places To Sell Your Photographs And Photography Skills and The Vanishing Old West - Jerome
 

by hullyjr on Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:40 pm
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I loath Adobe yet here I am using LR. It is good enough for my needs with the addition of FastRawViewer. Despite all their versions of LR nothing really improves my work flow. When they send me a survey, I take the time to list things that they could change to make it a better user experience but never see anything happen. I've learned to live with inadequate software and not let it stress me but once in a while I just want to f.....
Jim Hully
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Images now at https://www.flickr.com/photos/138068378@N06/
 

by archfotos on Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:26 am
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" Does Adobe get the last laugh?"  

Maybe but not how you surmise.  Adobe like Apple seem to let others come out with new features first then releases their optimized version, panoramic stitching, HDR, even Aperture's idea of working more with the Raw file than the pixel.  So in a lot of ways Adobe needed a chink in their armor to allow others to get back in the game. Like in the early 90s we now have a bunch of new software choices exploring different ways to work on the image file.

Right now I am testing out OnOne 21 and while there is so much to hate jumpy sliders, tiny text, and (my limited opinion) just something about the image's look. It's workflow, the steps of processing an image are intuitive, like discovering the obvious and asking why have we not been doing this the whole time! 

Personally I believe its good to jump around to different softwares otherwise your image processing archive is shortsighted depended upon one single company.  Kind of like email accounts, cell phone plans.  Looking back I would never of stored layered psd files, once done I would of flattened and saved processed images as 16bit tiffs. Nor have I ever liked my Raw files being swallowed up into Capture One's file system.

I don't believe Adobe has a complete lock on the future. Their Lightroom/Photoshop pricing is maybe held low to suppress the forums but their true market is hit with a ridiculous cost.  A market of art students and creative departments and let's be honest neither are well funded in our society.  Two quick examples I did a six month contract for a medical supply company, parking lot was full of high end Porches, Mercedes, etc.  Yet we in the Creative Department continually had to play musically chairs to get to a computer with the right software because the department's budget wouldn't pay for licenses for all the workstations.  Second example working on a healthy production, the digital city was impressive, they had every piece of software they could possibly need, yes even all those high end 3d ones, yet the person I worked with pulled up Gimp: "hey it works".  It's not about using a piece of software its about creating the work and if artists cant afford an annual $700 bill then they are going to learn and will prefer something else.
 

by Scott Fairbairn on Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:08 pm
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archfotos wrote:
" Does Adobe get the last laugh?"  

Maybe but not how you surmise.  Adobe like Apple seem to let others come out with new features first then releases their optimized version, panoramic stitching, HDR, even Aperture's idea of working more with the Raw file than the pixel.  So in a lot of ways Adobe needed a chink in their armor to allow others to get back in the game. Like in the early 90s we now have a bunch of new software choices exploring different ways to work on the image file.

Right now I am testing out OnOne 21 and while there is so much to hate jumpy sliders, tiny text, and (my limited opinion) just something about the image's look. It's workflow, the steps of processing an image are intuitive, like discovering the obvious and asking why have we not been doing this the whole time! 

Personally I believe its good to jump around to different softwares otherwise your image processing archive is shortsighted depended upon one single company.  Kind of like email accounts, cell phone plans.  Looking back I would never of stored layered psd files, once done I would of flattened and saved processed images as 16bit tiffs. Nor have I ever liked my Raw files being swallowed up into Capture One's file system.

I don't believe Adobe has a complete lock on the future. Their Lightroom/Photoshop pricing is maybe held low to suppress the forums but their true market is hit with a ridiculous cost.  A market of art students and creative departments and let's be honest neither are well funded in our society.  Two quick examples I did a six month contract for a medical supply company, parking lot was full of high end Porches, Mercedes, etc.  Yet we in the Creative Department continually had to play musically chairs to get to a computer with the right software because the department's budget wouldn't pay for licenses for all the workstations.  Second example working on a healthy production, the digital city was impressive, they had every piece of software they could possibly need, yes even all those high end 3d ones, yet the person I worked with pulled up Gimp: "hey it works".  It's not about using a piece of software its about creating the work and if artists cant afford an annual $700 bill then they are going to learn and will prefer something else.


I've used On1, luminar and lightroom. IMO, Capture One does the best raw conversions, but it's not a perfect program by any means. I recently bought into the lightroom/photoshop subscription because I have specialty software that requires it. I used to use the last perpetual license version of LR, and it surprised me when I started using it again, at just how little it seemed to have changed in the years between. It's a bit painful to switch products at this point in the game due to many edits on Capture One images that would be lost if I went to a new program. So I'm reluctant to switch.
 

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