Question regarding Gitzo leg breakage

Hey gang,

We had no less than 4 gitzo 6x and an older 1325 fail while shooting in the snow while in Yellowstone . The thinner carbon threaded area where the upper leg joins the aluminium flange broke similarly on all models.

I am sure the stress of splaying the legs had much to do with the breakage, but carbon and graphite high-end bikes handle much greater stress loads. No other carbon/graphite manufacturer threads the walls as this makes the tubes significantly thinner, preferring instead to use high-end epoxy methods that effectively bond the materials together, as one. Perhaps, the threading is necessary because of the use of dissimilar materials...aluminium and carbon.

If you have experienced the problem, has the problem been taken care of under gitzo warranty or has the product been replaced or credit issued by a reputable retailer?

Is this a systemic problem...I am sure gitzo would want to know so that they can look into fixing any problem that may exist.

Respectfully,

Chas

Chas

This is really upsetting news to me. Liz went to Yellowstone in February and had trouble with her Feisol 3471 CF tripod. The leg locks could not be tightened enough in the -30 degree F temperatures to keep them from collapsing steadily under the weight of her 600mm. Tripod worked perfectly when the temperatures warmed up later in the day.

So, based on everyone's recommendation, we just purchased a new Gitzo 3540LS to replace it. Now this. It sounds as though no carbon fiber tripod will work in these cold temperatures. Wish I knew this before blowing $650 at the local camera store last week.

Irv

Candew wrote:
...The leg locks could not be tightened enough in the -30 degree F temperatures to keep them from collapsing steadily under the weight of her 600mm...

Oh well, I guess I won't be able to shoot in -30 degree weather. Oh darn!

(I know it is a serious issue but I couldn't resist. )

Chas,
Had the identical problem recently. Simply went to the Bogen web site and retrieved the phone number for warranty work on Gitzos. Made the phone call and was told to fax copy of the purchase receipt...the top- most
portion of the leg was at my house in less than two weeks...no charge.
Tad

You need to quit using them as a walking stick when you're going through waist high snow to get a shot of a cow elk that lives in a van down by the river

Hi All,

A bit of background first.

Gitzo introduced the Carbon Fiber range in 1994. At that time they attached the legs with only high quality epoxy resin. In extreme cold conditions, the glue (epoxy) would crack and the top leg would fall out of the upper casting. Additionally, while Carbon Fiber tubes remain constant in extreme cold conditions, the same can not be said for the aluminum upper casting which reacts to elements such as heat/cold. Therefore, in 1996/97 Gitzo re-engineered the Carbon Fiber range and introduced the MK2 version tripods. One of the major improvements of the Mk2 was the introduction of the Hybrid Interlocking System (H.I.S.) - which incorporates BOTH high quality epoxy resin AND a threaded leg joint - Screwed & Glued. That major improvement caused the number of instances of "top leg failure" to fall from 10+% (1995) to less than 0.03% (1996-present). More tripods were fixed in 1995 due to this problem then in the 13 years since the introduction of the H.I.S.

While I will not speak to the stress of bike handles vs. tripods I will stand by the claim that the H.I.S. is the best method to connect a tripod leg to an upper casting as has been proven by the extremely low failure rate.

Regarding warranty claims for this particular problem - nearly 100% of the tripods sent to Bogen Imaging with this issue are repaired under the Bogen Imaging limited lifetime warranty for Gitzo tripods. HOWEVER, typically, no warranty claims are honored without the tripod being sent to Bogen Imaging for review by our Authorized Repair Technicians.

Gitzo takes quality claims very seriously. I would ask anyone that has had this particular problem to send me the serial # of the tripod so I can provide Gitzo with the information. Please provide additional information regarding weight load & climate conditions at the time of the issue.

To date, there is no trend at the Bogen Imaging repair department showing this problem is systemic.

Regards, & good luck shooting.

Sincerely,
David Fisher
Product Manager, Gitzo Brand
Bogen Imaging USA

Carbon fiber bikes may be stronger because the frames are essentially "one piece" of molded CF and the few stress points where they connect with metal (like on the rear sprocket) are not quite as "lateral" as would be the case when splaying the legs of a tripod. Plus which most people are not out in 0-15 degree weather. But CF and other exotic materials are used in space vehicles and it gets might chilly in outer space so there must be some way to prevent CF from self-destructing as a result of cold.

Perhaps under extreme cold more care needs to be adhered too... Keeping the legs more vertical (steeper angle) versus splayed way out when used under those conditions may lessen the stresses and prevent failure. Too bad people had to find out the hard way.

Well, if the seating in the aluminum socket where the leg connects to the top of the tripod is the issue why not change the material to mimick the behavior of CF. Ideally pressure molded CF connectors with surfaces faced with abbrasion coated with more resistant materials.

pm4236 wrote:Carbon fiber bikes may be stronger because the frames are essentially "one piece" of molded CF and the few stress points where they connect with metal (like on the rear sprocket) are not quite as "lateral" as would be the case when splaying the legs of a tripod. Plus which most people are not out in 0-15 degree weather. But CF and other exotic materials are used in space vehicles and it gets might chilly in outer space so there must be some way to prevent CF from self-destructing as a result of cold.

Actually, CF de-lamination under ultra-cold conditions was one of the main causes of failure when it was attempted to use this material to construct ultra-lightweight tanks for cryogenic fuels like liquid hydrogen.

In the end, the effort was abandoned as the problems proved daunting even for the "rocket scientists"...

spidey3 wrote: . . . CF de-lamination under ultra-cold conditions was one of the main causes of failure when it was attempted to use this material to construct ultra-lightweight tanks for cryogenic fuels like liquid hydrogen. . . .

I believe Gitzo's warranty excludes use in environments below -400° F. But it did cover the flat plate on my 410 when it cracked many years ago at 0° F.--another reason to hold on to the lens strap when you carry a tripod and supertelephoto over your shoulder.

spidey3 wrote:

pm4236 wrote:Carbon fiber bikes may be stronger because the frames are essentially "one piece" of molded CF and the few stress points where they connect with metal (like on the rear sprocket) are not quite as "lateral" as would be the case when splaying the legs of a tripod. Plus which most people are not out in 0-15 degree weather. But CF and other exotic materials are used in space vehicles and it gets might chilly in outer space so there must be some way to prevent CF from self-destructing as a result of cold.

Actually, CF de-lamination under ultra-cold conditions was one of the main causes of failure when it was attempted to use this material to construct ultra-lightweight tanks for cryogenic fuels like liquid hydrogen.

In the end, the effort was abandoned as the problems proved daunting even for the "rocket scientists"...

Well, the National Reconnaissance Office (spy satellites) and US military (ICBMs and comms satellites) has done something to solve this problem with whatever they're using. Unfortunately, if they told you they'd have to kill you.

Chas wrote:Hey gang,

We had no less than 4 gitzo 6x and an older 1325 fail while shooting in the snow while in Yellowstone . The thinner carbon threaded area where the upper leg joins the aluminium flange broke similarly on all models.

Ditto! I just e-mailed them, well just PM'd gitzodave as he requested above, I could not find his e-mail address. My 1325 broke this winter, same thing as the one you describe above. I had a only a D2x and a 200-400vr on it, really not too heavy...it was a cold day at Robert Moses State Park here in NY! I have since purchased a 3530LSV but need to get the 1325 fixed.

Very interesting Chas. My clients and I have been using these tripods in as cold and colder temp than were experienced in Yellowstone when you were here. We have had with no problems with carbon fiber due to temps. As Irv mentioned some tripods have had lock problem when cold but that is another issue no related to the Gitzos
The problem could be caused by allowing the legs to over extend when being pushed into the snow.
When you push down on the extended tripod legs and they continue into the snow the snow tend to keep spreading the legs unlike when they are on a hard surface. This will cause failure of any tripod in exactly the manner you described.

Jess Lee wrote:When you push down on the extended tripod legs and they continue into the snow the snow tend to keep spreading the legs unlike when they are on a hard surface. This will cause failure of any tripod in exactly the manner you described.

That seems like the most plausible cause for the failure. If the snow is deep enough that the leg ends would never meet a hard surface, they would continue to spread then flexing to the point that they would snap due to the extreme cold making the CF more brittle..... An aluminum tripod may be best under deep snow/extreme cold conditons.

Taking the extreme cold, brittle concept further..perhaps a lens coat like neoprene device that would wrap around the aluminum top and leg tops holding chemical warming pads the keep the CF warm enough that it would eliminate the brittle effect.

Jess Lee wrote: The problem could be caused by allowing the legs to over extend when being pushed into the snow.
When you push down on the extended tripod legs and they continue into the snow the snow tend to keep spreading the legs unlike when they are on a hard surface. This will cause failure of any tripod in exactly the manner you described.

Mine broke on a wood deck in the cold.

Robert Moses is not exactly arctic conditions... not that it can get nasty cold.

Interesting thread. Not to stray too off topic but I'm curious what people's experience, in general, has been with using the Gitzo 6x CF tripods in very cold temps? I recently purchased a new Gitzo 6x 3530 LSV and find it works fine in the cold although one leg tended to stick a bit....the other two legs were fine. BTW, I really like this tripod as it is so light (feels like a feather compared to my older Manfrotto). But I did notice 2 other photographers who had some problems on a very cold day extending their Gitzo tripod legs. I thought this was maybe a lubrication issue or something. Should the cold affect such an operation?

This happened to me 3 weeks ago with my 1325. From my research, there is a known issue with the 1325 tripods with respect to the adhesive used to bond the CF legs to the magnesium base. The glue essentially breaks down in cold temps. I regularly use my pod in -40c and colder so wasn't surprised I had this happen. This is a separate issue than leg failure due to deep snow btw.

The new gitzo line is suppose to use a different bonding agent that eliminated this problem.

When using the tripod in deep snow several people I know (including myself) have heard a loud cracking sound as the legs are spread wider but are constrainted by the snow. This may also result in the bonding coming loose.

Amphlis Foto (Cdn gitzo distributor) fixed my pod within a week. Although I was told they would order a whole new leg assembly it looks like they just glued the original leg back in place as the tripod foot is still marked up. They may have replaced the upper CF tube...I can't tell. I did have to have my original receipt for the warranty work...which luckily I had kept and was able to locate it.

I do have a set of gitzo snowshoes which I used this winter with the 1325 for the first time to help prevent this problem...however they are a bit of a hassle to use as they can come off easily if you're hiking with the pod and they make quick setup alittle "less quick".