First look: Benro C-228 (C-258) carbon fiber tripod

Greg Downing wrote:

A sturdy well made tripod is the FOUNDATION of my expensive photographic equipment. I have always been happy with my Gitzo tripods for the most part. Now with the 6X upgrade I am VERY happy indeed and more than glad to pay for what I am getting. I know the price is high but it is a quality product made and backed by a reputable company. I would certianly be more than hesitant to trust my $15,000 + rig with a cheaper made-in-China knockoff to save myself a a few hundred dollars. In the grand scheme of things it's peanuts!

E. J. Peiker wrote:

I agree with Greg. The tripod ios the last thing I would shave dollars on by going with a bargain brand.

I couldn't agree with you fellows more. I don't have a $15,000 rig sitting on my Gitzo but I do have a $7800 birding outfit sitting on my Gitzo. I can't see the value of putting all this gear on a tripod of questionable quality just to save 2.5%. That's all you save by going with a cheap tripod.

I don't see Benro/Induro and/or Feisol carving out any of Gitzo's market. The majority of the people who are purchasing Benro/Induro and Feisol are weekend photographers and generally amateurs, IMO, from what I've seen on the various Internet photography forums. These are people who wouldn't have bought Gitzo in the first place and would have settled on an aluminum tripod if no other cheap carbon fiber tripod were available.

Really, Gitzo has always catered to, and captured, the professional market and I don't see Benro/Induro or Feisol as a significant threat to the professional market. To be a significant threat to Gitzo and try to capture the professional market Gitzo dominates, another company would have to produce a tripod as good as and/or better than a Gitzo. In doing, so the other company's products would be just as expensive as Gitzo's because they would have to perform significant amounts of R&D and adopt manufacturing methods and grades of materials that Gitzo has to produce a tripod as durable and reliable as Gitzo's.

During lunch hour today I disassembled the Benro C-228 (as much as I could). The tripod is actually a bit heavier than the Gitzo. The center column is secured with a solid metal knob as opposed to plastic on the Gitzo. The leg assembly seems a bit more solid although the new style leg knobs slow down getting a tripod ready for action (this is also the case with newer Gitzos). The center column was removed just as easily as with the Gitzo and I was able to insert the Gitzo center column into the Benro with no difficulty. I don't like the smaller center column platform (cured by buying a short Gitzo center column) or the fact that it's a little heavier. At least as far as this model goes, they may be on their way to having a contender.

Again, this evaluation applies only to the C-228 just as Tom's ballhead analysis is limited to the one that he tore apart so take our comments with the appropriate grain of salt.

Dick Ginkowski wrote:

The center column was removed just as easily as with the Gitzo and I was able to insert the Gitzo center column into the Benro with no difficulty. I don't like the smaller center column platform (cured by buying a short Gitzo center column) or the fact that it's a little heavier. At least as far as this model goes, they may be on their way to having a contender.

Not if you have to use a Gitzo center column, they're not going to be a "contender".

oldsquawk wrote:Dick Ginkowski wrote:

The center column was removed just as easily as with the Gitzo and I was able to insert the Gitzo center column into the Benro with no difficulty. I don't like the smaller center column platform (cured by buying a short Gitzo center column) or the fact that it's a little heavier. At least as far as this model goes, they may be on their way to having a contender.

Not if you have to use a Gitzo center column, they're not going to be a "contender".

Not quite. I have replaced the center column on my Gitzo twice: once to have a short center column and again because the first one wore out. Sorry to disappoint you, but, unlike the ballheads, this tripod seems to be well assembled.

Dick Ginkowski wrote:..the new style leg knobs slow down getting a tripod ready for action (this is also the case with newer Gitzos).

I'm confused by this statement...perhaps you can clarify your claim as the newer Gitzo leg locks are much faster to work with than the older models due to the anti-rotating legs and a much more aggressive thread on the leg ends requiring less turns to tighten (in fact just a fraction of a turn is all that is required to tighten them).

As far as I can say, Benro tripods are very good, beautifully finished, and the higher models are also extremely sturdy. Furthermore, practically everything is produced in China today, because of cheap manpower-including many so-called "reputable brands". In this sense, I can imagine Gitzo is assembled in Benro factory too, just sticking the Gitzo logo by a French guy at the end of the manufacturing line . I think the logo is not important as well as how much I paid, only the actual quality is what really concerns. And the Benro tripods are not worse than the Gitzos, so why to be prejudiced. Moreover, competition pushes the prices down. Just my humble opinion to this tripod topic.

To update a bit...

I have now compared the Benro C-228 n6 with the Induro counterpart and the Gitzo 2540.

I agree with Greg that the Gitzo leg locks are faster to work with.

The Gitzo 2540 also has a "mini" center column platform. If I bought one I would immediately order an old-style replacement and get the short center colum while you are at it. (This is the same as with the Benro or Induro.)

I think the Benro is built a bit better than the Induro. For example, the center column lock on the Benro is metal. Plastic on the Induro. (It's plastic on my Gitzo 1228 as well.)

I again looked at an Induro 9benro) ballhead and again was not impressed. I agree with Mr. Webster -- pass on this.

i remember the days when my friends driving mercedes used to say that the Lexus is no good and they will never buy one

muralin wrote:i remember the days when my friends driving mercedes used to say that the Lexus is no good and they will never buy one

Ironically I was thinking of a similar analogy today. I have a Hyundai Elantra as a rental car. I had a similar Hyundai a few years ago as a rental car. The quality in this model is head and shoulders above the older one. With time Hyundai improved its quality (now if it can improve gas mileage).

Even if you buy a new Gitzo, you may wish to consider replacing the center column with a short version:

G1235CB (metal) G1239B (carbon fiber)

The old model number is G 235 C (metal).

The metal ones will work in the 1228.

Greg Downing wrote:

Dick Ginkowski wrote:..the new style leg knobs slow down getting a tripod ready for action (this is also the case with newer Gitzos).

I'm confused by this statement...perhaps you can clarify your claim as the newer Gitzo leg locks are much faster to work with than the older models due to the anti-rotating legs and a much more aggressive thread on the leg ends requiring less turns to tighten (in fact just a fraction of a turn is all that is required to tighten them).

For some reason, extending the legs seems to take longer with the newer models I tried. There seems to be a bit of a "drag" which slows down rapid deployment a bit despite the new hardware.

More troubling is the small center column platform on some models which is smaller than an Arca-Swiss B1. I'd definitely replace that with the older style if I bought one.

Another update: I replaced the long Benro center column with a Gitzo series 2 short center column. Took a few seconds and works quite nicely. The Gitzo center columns have the older, larger platform.

Hi, Everyone!

Wow...What a Thread!!! I'm sorry that I didn't respond sooner, but I've actually been at the Gitzo factory working with the International Brand Manager. I returned over the weekend (had to check my tripod for the first time - just a heads up to anyone travelling through Marco Polo Airport) although a traveling companion was able to carry his onboard - weird.

I want to clarify one thing first and foremost - GITZO HAS NEVER CONSIDERED OUTSOURCING TO CHINA. While Gitzo is constantly bombarded from Far East manufacturers that offer to manufacture Gitzo, the brand is and has always been developed, designed, and manufactured in EUROPE. First, for over half a century in France, and now, since 2004, in ITALY - at a state of the art facility in Feltre.

Regarding the quality issues of Gitzo vs. Far East Imports - specifically Induro & Benro - by far the biggest difference is the manufacturing process of the tube. Gitzo uses a process known as pultrusion, in which long, very thin strands of carbon fibers are woven (no seams!) at precise angles and consistent thickness to maximize strength to weight ratio, and vibration dampening. Benro/Induro use a roll table method of production. They use a sheet of carbon fiber, a layer of glue, lay another sheet at a 90 degree angle, another layer of glue, etc. etc. (6, 8, 12 layers - it's irrelevant). The sheets are bound together and rolled, then seamed! This is a popular method for the manufacturing of fishing rods because it allows for the tube to be bent/whipped. The best fishing rods in the world are manufactured using the roll table method.

The 2nd most important factor in tube construction is the ratio of carbon fibers to resin used to make the tube. Gitzo uses a 65/35 blend of carbon fibers to resin - the highest ratio of carbon to resin in the industry. Benro is 55/45. More Glue = Less Strength + More Weight

Next, let's look at the casting. That's the collar of the tripod that holds the legs. Gitzo uses gravity fed aluminum castings to make their tripod mounts. Gravity fed castings require the molten aluminum to be poured into a die and it eliminates the possibility of air pockets and anomalies to form inside the castings - which is what happens when pressure castings are used (Benro/Induro). Pressure castings are much cheaper to manufacture, and can be made much faster than gravity castings.

Leg locks are a vital piece of the tripod puzzle. G-Lock is the latest and most technologically advanced leg lock on the market. There is not enough space here for an in-depth comparison of leg locks - you need to see the difference for yourself. There are enough G-Lock owners on naturescapes.net that will agree the difference between non-GLock Gitzo and G-Lock Gitzo is astounding and immediately noticeable.

As for price, there are always going to be those who pay more for quality. Gitzo is not a brand everyone can afford. It never will be. I'm not sure whether the folks questioning the "manufacturing costs" of a Gitzo tripod have any basis for their bottom line assumption. I don't think the comparison to the U.S. Auto market is fair, because my understanding is the U.S. automakers stopped making cars U.S. citizens wanted to purchase. I don't see many Japanese or Korean car manufacturers stealing designs from Ford, GM, etc. There is a high cost associated with the development of an idea, and the transformation of that idea into an end product for a consumer beyond simply "manufacturing cost." A Gitzo customer is paying for quality and innovation, not "look alike" and "seems good enough".

To the best of my knowledge, Gitzo is the only photographic tripod brand offering U.S. consumers a lifetime warranty. A warranty protects the consumer against manufacturer defect in workmanship and materials. Bogen Imaging stands behind that warranty in the U.S. Gitzo tripods go through quality controls at each step of the manufacturing and distribution process. We do not guarantee against destruction, wear and tear, damage, etc. There is some great information on this site and others for the best way to care & maintain your tripod.

I hope this post is informative. I love the passion and enthusiasm naturescapes.net users have not only for their craft, but also for their equipment. While you may agree to disagree on the price/performance index, I felt it prudent that I contribute factual information regarding the materials, processes, and intellectual foundations that go into the Gitzo brand.

Thank you.

Regards,

David Fisher
Gitzo Product Manager
Bogen Imaging US

Dave,

I appreciate your insight.

On another note, why did Gitzo downside the center column platform? On the new series 2 tripods it's smaller than the footprint of, say, an Arca-Swiss B1?

I considered buying a new Gitzo and using the 1228 as a backup but the smaller center column platform ruled that out.

You may also with to explain the trade-up, trade-in program.

Thanks for clearing this up, Dave. This is great information and should make anyone rethink purchasing the Chinese knock-off tripods. I really didn't think Gitzo outsourced, or even considered outsourcing, tripod leg manufacture to Benro. I think this would make a great topic to post on several Internet photography forums just to quell the rumor, started in dpreview.com BTW, about Gitzo outsourcing to Benro.

Tom,

Notwithstanding the above, the Benro I have is well-built. Your experience is based on the horrible ballhead you took apart. I'd say the Benro C-228 n6 is at least on a par with my Gitzo 1228 which has had numerous problems, i.e, cracks in the legs, loose leg locks (I carry Super Glue in order to make repairs), center column loose (had to replace inner sleeve), leg bolts snapping apart in the field (Gitzo admitted manufacturing defect), etc. While I like my Gitzo I can't say it's the poster child for quality workmanship and the lack of service I received from Bogen when I contacted them was also not a selling point.

Thanks for taking part Dave.

I fully appreciate that Gitzo is the top of the tree in tripods... can anyone lone me the cash so i can climb that tree?

As an aside - I get the feeling that the Gitzo 'pods are particulary favoured by those with big glass, something I can't see myself having for 10+ years... do you think the advantage vs cost benifit diminishes as the max required load decreases?

ie - I'm leaning towards a Manfrotto 055ProB as my first "decent tripod" with the biggest lens anytime soon (5 years) being a 70-200 2.8 or maybe 300 2.8.

Opinions?

I recently danced around with the idea of getting a Feisol, or a Benro, or an Induro, or Giotto, etc... it really burned my butt to spend what Gitzo is asking for a GT2530 ($520, most places).

But I got to thinking... I have a basic distrust of Chinese workmanship. They seem to have a quality ethic that mandates they make stuff JUST good enough to get through whatever US quality control the distributor has. They seldom get any of the details right, just the overall look and impression of the copied product.

I finally knuckled under and bought the Gitzo. It pisses me off, but it really is a nice piece, and I believe it will last a long time... and that Gitzo / Bogen will stand behind it.

I also like that it's made in Italy instead of in France.

Michael, based on my experience and that of others, not so sure how well Bogen will stand behind it.

Dick Ginkowski wrote:Tom,

Notwithstanding the above, the Benro I have is well-built. Your experience is based on the horrible ballhead you took apart. I'd say the Benro C-228 n6 is at least on a par with my Gitzo 1228 which has had numerous problems, i.e, cracks in the legs, loose leg locks (I carry Super Glue in order to make repairs), center column loose (had to replace inner sleeve), leg bolts snapping apart in the field (Gitzo admitted manufacturing defect), etc. While I like my Gitzo I can't say it's the poster child for quality workmanship and the lack of service I received from Bogen when I contacted them was also not a selling point.

Whatever, Dick. If Benro cut so many corners producing a good looking ball head, at least on the outside, I have to wonder what corners were cut to make their tripods, especially those corners that can't be seen from the outside. I guess time will tell. I think "Gitzo Dave" gave us a pretty good idea. If you are happy with your Benro tripod, all well and good. Be happy with your tripod. I will continue to be happy with my Gitzos: my current 1325 and my 29 year old aluminum Gitzo. 'Nuff said. I will say no more.

Tom,

Wonder what you would have said about Gitzo quality had one of the leg bolts on your expensive tripod suddenly and inexplicably snapped and broke while you were shooting in Yellowstone and the other two snapped while being replaced on a Sunday afternoon at the Ace Hardware store in Jackson Hole. I lost a half day shooting because of that alone. Not to mention the cuts I suffered on my hand when the carbon fiber leg cracked and slivered.

I would not equate tripods to ballheads but I've had Kirk and Arca-Swiss ballheads fail and need repair. That's why I recommend carrying a spare ballhead. You could probably find a Bogen 3021 to get you through a shoot if your tripod breaks but ballheads are almost impossible to buy on the road. I would not agree with you that the Benro ballheads are even good looking. A quick visual inspection shows that there is less bulk to them, the metal is thinner and the tension mechanism chintzy. I'd never consider putting any heavy gear on them nor would I buy one.

Right now, I have two spare ballheads: a used Arca-Swiss B1 and a Markins. The spare B1 usually sits at home while the Markins is in my checked luggage. If I am not using any heavy lenses I'll often grab the Markins instead of the main B1 and it's never let me down (unlike the B1).

I actually was surprised that you needed to tear down the Benro ballheads to judge the quality. I could tell at first glance that it's not up to snuff. I'm not sure I'd even recommend it as a backup. At this point I can only recommend Markins (or used B1) for that purpose. (I no longer enthusiastically recommend the Kirk BH-1. The replacement one I got from Kirk was of poor quality and was returned plus they are now slow to ship.)

As for the Benro C-228, my impression is that it's probably not quite up to current comparable Gitzo models with the exception that the metal center column lock appears more substantial than the current Gitzo. That said, I'd be comfortable saying that the C-228 is as good if not better than the Gitzo 1228 and at half the cost. For those unable to afford Gitzo it's a great option. For those of us who can, it's a worthy backup.

This is not to bash Gitzo. Their metal tripods are built like tanks and, up until now, they clearly had no real carbon fiber competition. Bear in mind, though, that the early Gitzos were not immune from quality control issues. John Shaw used to lament at length about how many Gitzo carbon fiber legs he's reglued or had to use duct tape to make temporary repairs. He flatly told me that mine would break down. (He was wrong to the extent that the legs never came unglued as he predicted although one of the leg locks has been reglued several times.) I'm totally at a loss to understand why Gitzo would also reduce the mass of the center column base platform in the new series 2 tripods.

As for Dave's comments, I appreciate his insights but also must necessarily take them with a grain of salt. He's definitely not going to concede that the products he sells are overpriced. On the flip side, Gitzo had more than a decade to recoup any development costs, so there is no plausible excuse to actually increase prices. (Imagine if Canon tried to sell a 30D for the original price of a D30!)