7DII for dummies? Help?

Borrowing a 7D II and have to return it in 1 day. Have had similar soft focusing problems to those I have read about in so many forums.  I'll take EJ at his word, that microadjusting might be the answer. All I can do with this limited window of time is ask the camera to consider my lens, which it recognizes.  Not the same as a pro adjustment I realize.   But the focusing options on this camera are so complex, I don't have time to understand them all. Here's what I am using:
400L 5.6 NOY IS... perhaps that is part of the problem?

TC1.4 III(sometimes). 

Trying to get birds, some moving, some fairly still (for a bird).   Trying all kinds of ISO from 800-5000.  Hand-holding, as I've always done with my 1DIV.  Dismal results for the most parts. Noisy, OOF with the 7DII.  Better with the 1DIV and TC, which surprises me!

  Would someone be willing to suggest some settings for the 7DII that might resolve this-quick, down and dirty as it were?  I'm quite willing to admit to operator ignorance, but I've also read that some experts insist they got a bad copy of the camera. I'd like to think it's me, not the camera, but I don't have much time to find out.

Thanks so much!

What kind of birds?  Tripod available?

My 400 5.6 is very good on mine though it feels really unbalanced.


Being OOF will absolutely make the noise stand out BTW.  

I would take a shot manual focus tripod mounted fast shutter speed, single point, then set to AF wind it to infinity
and take a few shot going back to infinity between each shot then compare the AF shots to the manual shot .

this should show if its close or not .

Rob.

bradipock wrote:What kind of birds?  Tripod available?

My 400 5.6 is very good on mine though it feels really unbalanced.


Being OOF will absolutely make the noise stand out BTW.  

Yard birds- nuthatch at the suet, not moving much at times. Yes, have a tripod, but that's not what I use 99 % of the time when shooting birds, so if it needed to make this camera work for birds, I don't want a camera that requires one.

By the way, there are 98 pages of discussion about focusing problems alone on the Photography-on-the-net forum. Something smells funny to me!

A tripod rules out hand holding problems. Case 1, AV using ec or manual. Single center or expanded with a SS of 1/1600, wide open, ISO is what it is. Leave the 1.4 off until you know the 400 is good to go.

bradipock wrote:A tripod rules out hand holding problems.  Case 1, AV using ec or manual.  Single center or expanded with a SS of 1/1600, wide open, ISO is what it is.  Leave the 1.4 off until you know the 400 is good to go.

OK- will try the tripod tomorrow with static subject and then a few birds...if it isn't 10 below zero out there!

The Use of the TC3 Teleconverter on a 5.6 lens brings the effective F Stop to F8.
This is a very heavy burden for Focusing moving subjects...

There is no way around microadjustment, you simply have to do this. It can be done in 10-15 mins and doesn't require specialist equipment. As an example of how far out a camera/lens combination can be, my 7DII with 600/4 IS II and 2X III converter requires -20! Any comments about unsharp images are meaningless unless microadjustment has been done.

For some quick and dirty settings, try AI Servo Case 2 for BIF. I try to limit myself to ISO 800 on this camera, maybe 1600 at a push.

Robert Sabin wrote:The Use of the TC3 Teleconverter on a 5.6 lens brings the effective F Stop to F8.
This is a very heavy burden for Focusing moving subjects...

Not sure what you mean- "heavy" as in weight? Or Too much for the camera to focus well?  I am used to getting pretty good results with handheld 1DIV and 5.6......

Martin Hale wrote:There is no way around microadjustment, you simply have to do this. It can be done in 10-15 mins and doesn't require specialist equipment. As an example of how far out a camera/lens combination can be, my 7DII with 600/4 IS II and 2X III converter requires -20! Any comments about unsharp images are meaningless unless microadjustment has been done.

For some quick and dirty settings, try AI Servo Case 2 for BIF. I try to limit myself to ISO 800 on this camera, maybe 1600 at a push.

Thanks for that info. How does one do this in 10-15 minutes without specialist equipment?   ISO 800?  Yes that is reasonable.  But people are touting great success with much higher ISO, which would seem to be a definite advantage in certain circumstances, like poor light, fast moving subjects, etc. (That seems to be one of the attractions of this camera...that I have not yet experienced successfully. )

I thought you were having to return it today. So we have a little more time.

I would find the brightest spot in your house tonight and do a quick MA test. Tape a dollar bill to your wall so that it is very well lit. Mount the camera and lens on a tripod about 20 feet away. Focus using Live view, then take the lens out of AF WITHOUT MOVING IT OFF THE TARGET OR HITTING THE FOCUS RING. Do a 10 second mirror lock up and take a shot. If the lines in the top left of the bill are sharp, you're good. This is a quick and great test for this lens.

Once you have it nice and sharp, plan tomorrow. If you're going to handhold, then realize that your shutter speed should be around 1/1600 higher to do well with handheld flight shots, lower if the birds are sitting. While I've gone higher, I certainly think that 1600 is my top end for the ISO in the camera.

If you choose to use the TC, you'll need to redo the MA test from a slightly further distance and will need to increase the shutter speed more if handholding.

Good luck.

bradipock wrote:I thought you were having to return it today.  So we have a little more time.

I would find the brightest spot in your house tonight and do a quick MA test.  Tape a dollar bill to your wall so that it is very well lit.  Mount the camera and lens on a tripod about 20 feet away.  Focus using Live view, then take the lens out of AF WITHOUT MOVING IT OFF THE TARGET OR HITTING THE FOCUS RING.  Do a 10 second mirror lock up and take a shot.  If the lines in the top left of the bill are sharp, you're good.  This is a quick and great test for this lens.

Once you have it nice and sharp, plan tomorrow.  If you're going to handhold, then realize that your shutter speed should be around 1/1600 higher to do well with handheld flight shots, lower if the birds are sitting.  While I've gone higher, I certainly think that 1600 is my top end for the ISO in the camera.

If you choose to use the TC, you'll need to redo the MA test from a slightly further distance and will need to increase the shutter speed more if handholding.

Good luck.

Thank you! I'll try that. If the lines aren't sharp, does that mean I should try adjusting the micro-adjust settings, or does it mean something is wrong with the camera? (Sorry for the dumb questions-I've had no experience with this sort of thing.)

Make sure you read the stuff about the much better technique needed to get good pixel level sharpness from high pixel density sensors in the big thread on the 7D2.

E.J. Peiker wrote:Make sure you read the stuff about the much better technique needed to get good pixel level sharpness from high pixel density sensors in the big thread on the 7D2.

Errr-yes- I've been wading through that thread, but was kind of looking for a a few shorts cut since I have to return the camera to Canon on Wednesday. It takes me a long time to understand all the nuances in these discussions, and a lot of stuff is totally beyond me.  Hard to sort it all out. If I go for this camera, I'm hoping someone will write an easy-to-follow tutorial. Meanwhile, I wonder... the question remains....are there just "bad" copies of this camera, or is it so complex that people are giving up because they don't understand how to use it or adjust it to their lenses?  Seems like a lot of pros , even, and sending them back with auto-focus issues.  It also seems like a lot of pros really like the camera, which is reassuring, but for those of us that are more technically-challenged, it might be just too big a learning curve. I assume Canon is hoping to sell to just such a consumer. Time will tell, I guess. I was hoping to get a better idea in a few days about whether to switch from 1DIV, but i don't think it will be clear just yet. I suspect waiting till the wind dies down might be the best strategy.  How about a survey on this camera at some point?

If the lines aren't sharp, you have a lens focus issue. You'll have to adjust and reshoot.

Another method is to go outside in the morning (or possibly inside) and find something with a separation point - think a sidewalk and the cement joints. Focus on the joint and see where the DOF lies. From there you can adjust it closer or further.

bradipock wrote:If the lines aren't sharp, you have a lens focus issue.  You'll have to adjust and reshoot.

Or the shutter speed was too slow, or the technique wasn't as good as it needs to be or any of many things.

The bottom line with a high density pixel sensor is that you need all of the following:
1. Good lens to camera focus adjustment
2. Very good technique (at the pixel level this camera can tolerate approximately 1/4 of the vibration or movement of the 1Dx)
3. Due to the pixels being smaller, a smaller amount of subject movement will record so you need faster shutter speeds.
4. In high frame per second mode, this camera produces a lot of mirror slap and shutter shock which is more easily recoded by the smaller pixels which can tolerate less vibration as indicated above.

E.J. Peiker wrote:

bradipock wrote:If the lines aren't sharp, you have a lens focus issue.  You'll have to adjust and reshoot.

Or the shutter speed was too slow, or the technique wasn't as good as it needs to be or any of many things.

The bottom line with a high density pixel sensor is that you need all of the following:
1. Good lens to camera focus adjustment
2. Very good technique (at the pixel level this camera can tolerate approximately 1/4 of the vibration or movement of the 1Dx)
3. Due to the pixels being smaller, a smaller amount of subject movement will record so you need faster shutter speeds.
4. In high frame per second mode, this camera produces a lot of mirror slap and shutter shock which is more easily recoded by the smaller pixels which can tolerate less vibration as indicated above.

While I could be wrong E.J., I think I ruled most of that out with how I told her to do the test - tripod mounted, mirror lock up should remove the technique.  For the purpose of testing if AF adjustment is needed, shutter speed wouldn't be that important, although I wouldn't be doing long exposures for it either.  But 1/50th given the above requirements should suffice.

I agree in real world shooting, not a chance in hell that works, but for AF testing, it should.  

E.J. Peiker wrote:

bradipock wrote:If the lines aren't sharp, you have a lens focus issue.  You'll have to adjust and reshoot.

Or the shutter speed was too slow, or the technique wasn't as good as it needs to be or any of many things.

The bottom line with a high density pixel sensor is that you need all of the following:
1. Good lens to camera focus adjustment
2. Very good technique (at the pixel level this camera can tolerate approximately 1/4 of the vibration or movement of the 1Dx)
3. Due to the pixels being smaller, a smaller amount of subject movement will record so you need faster shutter speeds.
4. In high frame per second mode, this camera produces a lot of mirror slap and shutter shock which is more easily recoded by the smaller pixels which can tolerate less vibration as indicated above.

Thanks E.J.  Does all of this mean hand-holding this camera with the 400 5.6 is going to be really difficult, or that a tripod might be necessary?  Would an IS lens be an improvement? (I can try my 300 f/4 IS..or dream about the new 100-400). I suppose the TC adds to the problem with the 400 5.6-or any lens.
I  almost always used AV mode, so I guess I need high ISO to get faster shutter speeds....something this camera is supposed to be good at, but not so far in my short stint with it.

Bottom line-in the field, I can't carry a camera, lens and tripod, nor do I find it practical for BIF.

(I DO understand that using a tripod for lens calibration is necessary...-thanks Brad)

The whole point of a live view test is to bypass micro adjustment issues. I would take the live view shot (use live view focus to get in focus) then follow up with some shots taken using AF, put the camera out of focus then AF to achieve focus.

If your shutter speed is high enough and technique good to get the live view shot sharp it is your baseline, the AF shots then represent what you get when using AF. If the AF shot is out of focus significantly compared to the live view focused shot then that is one explanation as to why your birds are not sharp and the combo maybe needs micro adjust. If they are both sharp or very close, you need to work on technique.

There may be other reasons besides micro adjust that the AF shot is out, but if you get a sharp image live view focusing and it is not sharp using AF then you need to correct that before you can expect to get routinely sharp shots in the field.