NatureScapes.net Forums

E.J. Peiker wrote:I look at this as a first step that could eventually lead to banning tripods period in National Parks.

I think people are over reacting here.  For exampe, Wolf watching in the Northern Range Y.N.P. is nearly impossible without a tripod and a spotting scope. 

Scotty wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:I look at this as a first step that could eventually lead to banning tripods period in National Parks.

I think people are over reacting here.  For exampe, Wolf watching in the Northern Range Y.N.P. is nearly impossible without a tripod and a spotting scope. 

I think that with the Republican's "Pay to Play" philosophy, we will see a sliding scale for the rich to the poor on what will be allowed in National Parks.

Mike in O wrote:

Scotty wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:I look at this as a first step that could eventually lead to banning tripods period in National Parks.

I think people are over reacting here.  For exampe, Wolf watching in the Northern Range Y.N.P. is nearly impossible without a tripod and a spotting scope. 

I think that with the Republican's "Pay to Play" philosophy, we will see a sliding scale for the rich to the poor on what will be allowed in National Parks.

"Pay to Play" philosophy could very well lead to tripods are banned unless you have a permit - of course you will have to pay for your permit.

ZMike in O wrote:

Scotty wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:I look at this as a first step that could eventually lead to banning tripods period in National Parks.

I think people are over reacting here.  For exampe, Wolf watching in the Northern Range Y.N.P. is nearly impossible without a tripod and a spotting scope. 

I think that with the Republican's "Pay to Play" philosophy, we will see a sliding scale for the rich to the poor on what will be allowed in National Parks.

You meant Hillary, right? 

Lets not get overly political please. This thread could easily degenerate. It's about eroding photographer rights on public lands, not about political parties. And yes, I realize that may be difficult to separate at times.

E.J. Peiker wrote:It's about eroding photographer rights on public lands,

I don't feel it is a right to use a tripod any more than we have a right to use a vehicle in certain places. Shuttle buses are now required in some areas, as you all know. At the Grand Canyon, the CUA limits tripods to 8 at a time per group and several areas are off limits to photo and art workshops. Check out the CUA for photography workshops here:

https://www.nps.gov/grca/learn/management/upload/Photography-And-Art-Workshop-CUA.pdf

Especially, pay attention to #’s 20, 35, 40,41 and 45.

I think reasonable photographers have to understand that workshops are far different from individual photographers. 
Light painting workshops are prohibited in some areas (e.g., Arches NP) and I don’t think that is an unreasonable rule. Why should workshops have any special rights? We have to be considerate of other rightful users and visitors enjoyment of special places.
How would we feel if we got to a special place and there were many artists easels set up in the specific spot we wanted to be?

Joe

Missed the point of my eroding comment! As stated earlier in the thread, the fear is that workshops is the beginning which will quickly erode into all tripods by anyone. We have seen time and time again where park rangers have applied rules for commercial product photography and filming to everyone. I am nearly certain that this will happen to INDIVIDUALS based on lack of understanding of the policy by park rangers.

Point not missed at all. I just disagree. I posted the link below earlier in this thread. Sometimes even a single tripod hogs space from other users. Abuses may certainly result in restrictions on individuals using tripods. That is not unreasonable IMO. Just take a look at how much space is taken up by tripods in this image, as compared to other users:

https://mobile.twitter.com/markboster/s ... 9875488769

As numbers of photographers and other users increases, restrictions will certainly follow. With technology improvements, tripods may not be as necessary in the future. P&S cameras and phones can do in-camera stitching and panoramic images. Soon, DSLR’s will be able to do many incredible things at high quality levels. Look at what the new intel processors can do, compared to the last generation:

New processors

Joe

E.J. Peiker wrote:Missed the point of my eroding comment!  As stated earlier in the thread, the fear is that workshops is the beginning which will quickly erode into all tripods by anyone.  We have seen time and time again where park rangers have applied rules for commercial product photography and filming to everyone.  I am nearly certain that this will happen to INDIVIDUALS based on lack of understanding of the policy by park rangers.

That happened to me a number of years ago at a national park property in the mid-Atlantic region. I was told I needed a permit (hundreds of dollars) to be shooting with a tripod. That was totally wrong, but the ranger believed it to be true. One person with a tripod is not the same as a commercial film crew with multiple cameras, lighting and products. 
I can easily see the authorities making such a rule expansion.

Paul 

SantaFeJoe wrote:If you look at this photo of Bryce Canyon, it is easy to see how a mass of tripods would disturb other visitors and could hog an overlook or other spot:

https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/pad-u ... ional-park

It happens all the time at the Flight Deck at Bosque.

Same is true for places like Brooks Falls, as mentioned in a previous thread:

https://www.naturescapes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=268967

https://www.nps.gov/katm/blogs/people-platforms-and-bears.htm

https://mobile.twitter.com/markboster/status/491720209875488769

Joe

Right, but I don't think you'll see many tripods at that time. Tripods come in early and late. Tourists in middle of the day.

I don't think you can compare Bosque and National Parks. At NWR's you'll get different kind of people and less of them.

Paul Fusco wrote:

Andrew_5488 wrote:

Paul Fusco wrote:The reason is simple:
Too many are coming away with beautiful images of PUBLIC lands which will make it harder for the Interior Department to gain public acceptance of new policies to open public lands to extraction interests.
Just kidding, that would never happen, right????

Paul

Ohh, so you think it just started ?
Didn't previous administration open arctic for drilling twice ?

Andrew,
In case you haven’t been informed, the current administration has been underhandedly striking down conservation protections for public lands. That includes national parks, wildlife refuges, national monuments and BLM lands. The widely publicized intent is to sell mineral development rights to corporate interests. This includes oil and gas drilling, surface mining and commercial development. 
As for the previous administration, I am not aware that they opened any arctic refuge land to oil drilling. That looks like it will be done in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge now as that provision is included in the new tax reform law that was passed by Republicans and signed law by the current president last month. 
Paul

I'm fully aware of what's going on right now. I also wasn't born yesterday.

E.J. Peiker wrote:Missed the point of my eroding comment!  As stated earlier in the thread, the fear is that workshops is the beginning which will quickly erode into all tripods by anyone.  We have seen time and time again where park rangers have applied rules for commercial product photography and filming to everyone.  I am nearly certain that this will happen to INDIVIDUALS based on lack of understanding of the policy by park rangers.

I'm heading to Zion in May, hope I don't run into any overzealous park rangers. I just bought a new tripod

This is a somewhat related link regarding enforcement and knowledge of the laws and rights:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=235721

Joe

E.J. Peiker wrote:https://fstoppers.com/originals/no-trip ... ops-212558

Tripods no longer allowed for workshops.  I'm sure we'll see this rule proliferate quickly.

More "fake news" from Fstoppers... nothing has changed at Zion with regard to tripod use.

https://www.donsmithblog.com/2018/01/17 ... op-groups/

“Cliff LeSergent wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:https://fstoppers.com/originals/no-trip ... ops-212558

Tripods no longer allowed for workshops.  I'm sure we'll see this rule proliferate quickly.

More "fake news" from Fstoppers... nothing has changed at Zion with regard to tripod use.

https://www.donsmithblog.com/2018/01/17 ... op-groups/

I think you are mistaken. The NPS Website specifically prohibits tripods on trails by commercial groups in Zion.

https://www.nps.gov/zion/planyourvisit/upload/2018-Operation-Plan-Photography_Painting-Workshops.pdf

Look at #2.

Cliff LeSergent wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:https://fstoppers.com/originals/no-trip ... ops-212558

Tripods no longer allowed for workshops.  I'm sure we'll see this rule proliferate quickly.

More "fake news" from Fstoppers... nothing has changed at Zion with regard to tripod use.

https://www.donsmithblog.com/2018/01/17 ... op-groups/

From Zion's published 2018 rules:
"Permitted groups are sharing visitor facilities with the general public. This permit does not convey any priority use of any park areas including park trails, road side pullouts, parking areas, picnic areas, etc. Permittees are responsible for the conduct of their clients and must advise clients to stay on trails, walk single file, and allow the public to pass. The use of tripods on trails is prohibited by permittees or clients (monopods are authorized)."

"Since nighttime photography requires the use of tripods and tripods are not authorized on park trails, nighttime photography is not authorized on park trails."

Here’s another thing being considered at Zion. Check out the crowds in the accompanying photos:

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/07/21/z ... ervations/

Joe

E.J. Peiker wrote:

Cliff LeSergent wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:https://fstoppers.com/originals/no-trip ... ops-212558

Tripods no longer allowed for workshops.  I'm sure we'll see this rule proliferate quickly.

More "fake news" from Fstoppers... nothing has changed at Zion with regard to tripod use.

https://www.donsmithblog.com/2018/01/17 ... op-groups/

From Zion's published 2018 rules:
"Permitted groups are sharing visitor facilities with the general public. This permit does not convey any priority use of any park areas including park trails, road side pullouts, parking areas, picnic areas, etc. Permittees are responsible for the conduct of their clients and must advise clients to stay on trails, walk single file, and allow the public to pass. The use of tripods on trails is prohibited by permittees or clients (monopods are authorized)."

"Since nighttime photography requires the use of tripods and tripods are not authorized on park trails, nighttime photography is not authorized on park trails."

The clarification that Don Smith received from the Zion park administration is that the tripod ban applies to PAVED trails only, and that this ban has been in place for several years already.

Cliff LeSergent wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:

Cliff LeSergent wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:https://fstoppers.com/originals/no-trip ... ops-212558

Tripods no longer allowed for workshops.  I'm sure we'll see this rule proliferate quickly.

More "fake news" from Fstoppers... nothing has changed at Zion with regard to tripod use.

https://www.donsmithblog.com/2018/01/17 ... op-groups/

From Zion's published 2018 rules:
"Permitted groups are sharing visitor facilities with the general public. This permit does not convey any priority use of any park areas including park trails, road side pullouts, parking areas, picnic areas, etc. Permittees are responsible for the conduct of their clients and must advise clients to stay on trails, walk single file, and allow the public to pass. The use of tripods on trails is prohibited by permittees or clients (monopods are authorized)."

"Since nighttime photography requires the use of tripods and tripods are not authorized on park trails, nighttime photography is not authorized on park trails."

The clarification that Don Smith received from the Zion park administration is that the tripod ban applies to PAVED trails only, and that this ban has been in place for several years already.

If you read the NEW regulations - as stated - for 2018, it is clear that the prohibition relates to trails. Obviously, this supersedes any older regs concerning PAVED trails. You need to carefully read the NEW regulations linked above. Of course, as EJ has said, different rangers may enforce it differently but is obvious the ban is on all trails. If that was not the intent, they need to amend the rule.

If I'm a ranger and I've been given the official regulations to enforce, I would enforce them as written on ALL trails as it does not ever once use the word paved in the regs.