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by neverspook on Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:04 pm
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British Columbia has just proposed to hugely intensify the killing of wolves and grizzly bears in the Peace Region in the northeast of the province. They plan to triple the quota for the trophy hunt of grizzlies and to remove all limits and have an open season on wolves.

These plans are indefensible both for ecological and ethical reasons.

Please voice your opposition by signing this petition. https://www.change.org/p/bc-liberals-don-t-change-the-limit-to-wolf-and-grizzly-hunting-in-the-peace-region

 
And to do more, check out the links below. You don’t have to be Canadian to help, or even British Columbia. Outside voices really help and add to those of the 90% of British Columbians opposed to these hunts.

http://pacificwild.org/news-and-resourc ... s%E2%80%A6

http://pacificwild.org/news-and-resources/great-bear-blog/action-alert-discussion-points-for-wolf-hunt-comments
 
http://pacificwild.org/news-and-resources/great-bear-blog/action-alert-discussion-points-for-grizzly-hunt-comments

Thanks,
Roberta Olenick
http://www.neverspook.com


Last edited by neverspook on Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Jim Zipp on Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:33 am
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What is with people and their hatred of wolves. I recently read this from Norway...
Norway Only Has 30 Wolves Remaining In The Wild - More Than 11,000 Hunters Signed Up To Kill 16 Of Them!
Jim Zipp
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by neverspook on Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:40 pm
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Hey, Jim, I am not seeing a link in your post to what you read about wolves in Norway.

But I have heard about that insanity of the extreme Norwegian wolf kill. Hunters there outnumber wolves by 763 to 1!

Here is a petition opposed to the Norwegian wolf hunt http://www.thepetitionsite.com/792/155/ ... &cid=fb_na

Roberta Olenick
www.neverspook.com
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:31 pm
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I just looked at the Norway link and posted a message and then sent it to Facebook.  

I am fed up with the whole thing.  But there is little that can be done.

It is the same way in Maine as it is in BC, as it is in Norway:

I really cannot remember what it was like when I was a boy.  But I guess things changed when I became Wildlife Biologist and just took on a greater understanding and appreciation for what is out there in the woods.   Add to that the ever increasing human population.

As a Wildlife Biologist I cannot argue ecologically against these MORON hunters.  Yes, I said it, just as I said it in the facebook message I just posted.  

I cannot remember what hunters were like decades ago.  But today, it is a crying SHAME that there is not one single hunter among them with the guts to step out and make a statement that it is selfishly wrong for them to kill off all the remaining predators that are eating THEIR deer (all ungulates).

Here in Maine it is the coyote.  

These damned hunters cannot tolerate coyotes killing deer but the hunters can kill the deer.  

Let me put it another way, because (as I said) biologically I do not think that you can effectively argue against what they are doing.  As long as the hunters are killing enough of the ungulates, then there should not be disease caused by a grossly overpopulated ungulate pop; i.e. there is no ecological need for the apex predator anymore.  Tell me if I am wrong.  You cannot.  There is not need for the apex predator anymore.  Really , there has been not need for many years. This is how out of balance things are.  And with the human population growing, it is going to get worse.  

BUT...what really makes me angry is this:

1.  Moron hunters refuse to see anything in the woods except ungulates (deer, moose, elk..whatever) and bear.  They do not see anything else AT ALL!!!!   THEY HAVE NO SENSE OF STEWARDSHIP.    Today's hunters are a selfish, demanding group that has an ever increasing political lobby.  They are little boys anymore.  They have to have bigger antlers and bigger moose and more bear.  They see nothing else.  No matter what it takes to give them what they want....is justifiable.  

I am talking about what has caused the dramatic increase in Maine's bear pop. It is because the paper companies are raping the north woods, eliminating all old growth, in fact, increasingly, almost all dominant trees in all forest stands.  They are setting back plant succession so that there has been a dramatic increase in 
low to midstory vegetation...the species that produce most of the fruit/mast....thereby causing a dramatic increase in the black bear pop.  Maine Fish and Game knows it but does not let a whisper out about it publicly.  The moron hunters know about it but in reality love it because they have more bear to bait and trap.  It is a desecration of nature in northern Maine.  Add to the mess....global warming and the ticks.  Oh, and let us not forget the increase in exotic plant species as humans move deeper into areas they had not been in before.

2.  As I said, there is not one among hunters in BC, Maine or Norway....or anywhere else, who would step out and speak against the killing of these native predators....EVEN THOUGH THEY KNOW IN THEIR HEARTS IT IS WRONG.  They have not the guts!!

3.  The bureaucrats cave in to the demands of the selfish, moron hunters, and it happens over and over again.

No, I do not apologize for the name calling.  I have lost ALL...ALL respect for hunters.   Why?  Because this story is played out over and over, year after year, in every state and province.  It is the same story all the time; they know they are wrong and it would just a take a few of them to speak out....BUT THEY ARE A TIGHT CLAN AND WILL NOT SPEAK OUT AGAINST THIS.  

They are afraid that their buddies will not accept them.

.I grew up in a hunting family with the log cabin in the northern Maine woods.  I know what these people are like.  

Today, I am sick of the hunting crowd.  Their lobby is much, much too powerful  

It's gonna get worse unless we can form organizations that have the same political clout as the hunters.

Robert King
http://itsaboutnature.net


Last edited by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by neverspook on Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:11 pm
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I don't know about the situation in Maine (and I do know that in Alaska predator hunting takes place for the reason you state, Black-Shouldered Kite - to leave more ungulate game for human hunters.

But that does not necessarily appear to the case in Norway. According to this article http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/n ... oot-wolves the Norwegian government issued wolf hunting licenses to protect livestock from wolves rather than ungulates. Though really, it is hard to imagine that just 30 wolves could have a huge impact on the entire livestock industry. Strikes me as just a "justification" for an unjustifiable slaughter.

Besides there are many more effective, non-lethal means of preventing human/livestock - wolf conflicts as described here http://media.wix.com/ugd/528f75_1d3ce70 ... 4ebc92.pdf

Additionally, studies have shown that killing wolves commonly results in increased wolf predation on livestock as pack structure gets disrupted, wolves breed more to make up for the ones killed etc. http://journals.plos.org/plosone/articl ... ne.0113505

The wolf hunt in the Peace Region of BC is also not touted to protect ungulates so hunters can kill them. Again, part of the argument for the wolf hunt here is to prevent predation on livestock. And the other is to prevent wolves from killing the few remaining caribou in the region. Those caribou are so scarce they are not allowed to be hunted by human hunters. And while wolves can and do prey on them, wolves are not the reason these caribou are so highly endangered; that is habitat loss and fragmentation due to increasing logging, mining, oil and gas development, road building and other developments in caribou critical habitat. Rather than protect and restore sufficient habitat and slow down out of control development, the province of BC is just scapegoating wolves to make it look like they are doing something for the caribou. But even the province's own caribou management plan says they are managing caribou just to slow down the rate at which they are disappearing rather than to prevent their eventual disappearance which is a horrible way to manage a species. And if they are going to let the caribou be extirpated from that area anyway, why even bother killing all those wolves? (In addition to the sport hunt, the province is also culling hundreds of wolves using snipers from helicopters as part of its caribou management plan.)

But as noted, the science behind such culls to protect livestock and caribou is questionable. At least in BC, the government attitude seems to be that if there are any "extra" animals out there, then hunters should be allowed to kill them.

Roberta Olenick
www.neverspook.com
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by Mike in O on Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:31 pm
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Not to defend the gross science behind this hunt, but the Woodland Caribou of BC and Northern Idaho are a distinct race that is on the verge of extinction. They live in the mountains and are distinct in their habits from normal Woodland Caribou that stretch across Canada (and used to be in Maine). The Peace River group is the more common race and is not endangered but is under pressure.
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:31 pm
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Excellent characterization.  Good writing, backed up by documentation.

There have also been incidents of those wolves killing those dogs.  But I think you are right that in Norway, that would have been a solution.

Coyotes also increase their litter size when put under terrible pressure.  

We are not going to stop the "development".  Yes, it is out of control and it is only going to get worse.

I am 66 years old (today) and I now am confident that I will live to see the collapse of certain marine systems in my life.  I mean total collapse....so that there is no recovery.  I suspect it will first occur in one of the seas off the Pacific.  I am talking about the loss of the primary producers.  As a scientist (a Wildlife Biologist as I recall)  you know that when that happens it will be all over for that system...suddenly.
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by neverspook on Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:50 pm
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Mike in O wrote:Not to defend the gross science behind this hunt, but the Woodland Caribou of BC and Northern Idaho are a distinct race that is on the verge of extinction.  They live in the mountains and are distinct in their habits from normal Woodland Caribou that stretch across Canada (and used to be in Maine).  The Peace River group is the more common race and is not endangered but is under pressure.
Thanks for the input Mike.

My understanding of the distribution and taxonomy of caribou is slightly different from what you have stated.

According to this link http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/speciesconservation/ all caribou in BC are classified as the same species, Woodland Caribou (Rangifer tarandus caribou). BC has 52 herds which have been divided into three ecotypes (mountain, northern and  boreal) depending on feeding and behaviour. 

The Mountain ecotype of woodland caribou is the rarest and does extend into the southern part of the Peace Region. Please see map on page 2 here http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/speciescon ... alysis.pdf

The caribou further north in the Peace region are the Northern ecotype, as shown on this map http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/speciescon ... otype.html 
and as discussed in information here 
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/documents/caribou.pdf

In BC, 15 of 31 herds of Northern caribou and all herds of Mountain and Boreal caribou are listed as at risk (threatened or endangered).

The wolf culls in BC that are being conducted due to low caribou numbers occur in the South Peace region as well as the South Selkirk Mountains.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... -1.2904364

Roberta Olenick
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by Mike in O on Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:48 pm
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If I remember right, the mt. variety is essentially starving to death because lichen is no longer around because of logging and devastating forest fires from the 20th century and over exploitation of the mountain habitat. A good book to read on the forests of Northern Idaho and the homesteaders is Train Dreams a novella by Denis Johnson, I was lucky to spot some of those Caribous on a hike in the Idaho Selkirks a number of years ago.
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by Paul Fusco on Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:32 pm
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Its the Provinces, States and related commercial interests that benefit from having more hunters buy more hunting licenses.
Fewer ungulates to hunt = less cash to governments from license sales and puts the hurt on local businesses.
Capital greed. 
Same with many hunters that want only the biggest and best. Their greed removes the best genes from the ecosystem. It happens not only with white-tailed deer or caribou, but also with moose, elephants, lions, the list goes on. Trophy greed. Can they all really expect to be the one to kill the biggest whatever? Do they all have to have one when in many cases today there are more of them than the quarry?

And, perhaps the worst part of this kind of management style is that the real problem HABITAT LOSS is being overlooked completely.

P
[b]Paul J. Fusco
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