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by Hoppy on Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:44 pm
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Just got an email from Capture One.  They are changing their perpetual Licence model.  Effectively you get to use the software and upgrades for a year and that's it unless you upgrade again.  I decided for the first time not to upgrade to C1 23 as it add no features that were any benefit to me.  Looks like I am now out of luck under their new model unless I upgrade.  New information on their loyalty program in February 2023.  It is now becoming a very expensive piece of software if you have to upgrade every year.  Below is a link to an article on dpreview.
https://www.dpreview.com/news/3164356226/capture-one-perpetual-licenses-no-longer-include-new-features-functionality-after-purchase

Not happy Jan as we say here in OZ.
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by E.J. Peiker on Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:55 am
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Hoppy wrote:Just got an email from Capture One.  They are changing their perpetual Licence model.  Effectively you get to use the software and upgrades for a year and that's it unless you upgrade again.  I decided for the first time not to upgrade to C1 23 as it add no features that were any benefit to me.  Looks like I am now out of luck under their new model unless I upgrade.  New information on their loyalty program in February 2023.  It is now becoming a very expensive piece of software if you have to upgrade every year.  Below is a link to an article on dpreview.
https://www.dpreview.com/news/3164356226/capture-one-perpetual-licenses-no-longer-include-new-features-functionality-after-purchase

Not happy Jan as we say here in OZ.

That's not at all what it says.  Cutting and pasting directly from their email:


Here’s how it affects you:
As you already own a license for Capture One Pro 23, you will receive free updates including all new features and improvements until September 30, 2023.

After this date, you can choose to remain on Capture One Pro 23 for as long as it suits your needs, purchase a new license when another version is released, or switch to a subscription.


Additionally, they address older versions like this:
"I have a license for Capture One Pro 22 or an older version."
Your license is perpetual and yours to keep, for as long as you can meet the minimum system requirements.
 

by DChan on Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:38 am
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Capture One says perpetual licenses will no longer include new features, functionality after purchase


"This change in strategy comes with two repercussions. The first is that ‘new perpetual licenses will include updates with bug fixes until the next version, but new features released after purchase will not be included.’

"The second is that upgrade pricing will no longer be available. Instead, Capture One is moving to a ‘loyalty scheme’ to reward customers. Capture One doesn’t elaborate on this ‘loyalty scheme,’ but says more details will be announced February 1, 2023."
 

by E.J. Peiker on Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:58 am
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Here's an FAQ on how things are changing - the more I read it, the less of a major change this is to me:
https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us ... 8068628637

Basically what is changing is that they are moving away from an annual upgrade cycle, usually in the 4th quarter.  In the past, they would issue updates with new features a couple of times per year that were no additional cost if you had the latest version.  They will no longer be doing this.  So if you want new features, you will need to upgrade to the newest version at some yet to be specified cost after it is released.

My only question that has not been answered is if the maintenaince updates, which will still be issued between versions, will include new camera and lens profiles for gear that comes to market between versions.
 

by Scott Fairbairn on Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:05 pm
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DChan wrote:Capture One says perpetual licenses will no longer include new features, functionality after purchase


"This change in strategy comes with two repercussions. The first is that ‘new perpetual licenses will include updates with bug fixes until the next version, but new features released after purchase will not be included.’

"The second is that upgrade pricing will no longer be available. Instead, Capture One is moving to a ‘loyalty scheme’ to reward customers. Capture One doesn’t elaborate on this ‘loyalty scheme,’ but says more details will be announced February 1, 2023."

I've been using Capture One almost from the beginning, so I can't wait to see my loyalty reward! Maybe an iPad? lol
It is getting to be a pricey software package, but it works best for my workflow so I'll stick with it for now.
 

by Scott Fairbairn on Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:43 pm
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Article about it:
https://petapixel.com/2022/12/07/captur ... le-enough/
 

by WJaekel on Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:27 am
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E.J. Peiker wrote: My only question that has not been answered is if the maintenaince updates, which will still be issued between versions, will include new camera and lens profiles for gear that comes to market between versions.
I don't think that the support of new cameras and lens profiles is part of the maintainance in the future (after September 30, at least). You have to buy a new license by then. That's also indirectly pointed out by Capture One's Jack Williams in the Pentapixel article linked above.

However, if I correctly understand their support FAQ, - those who bought C23 before February 1, will still get feature updates (until Sept 30, 2023):

"The new license model will be implemented on Feb 1st, 2023, impacting only new purchases of Capture One Pro. So you will be getting free updates (incl. features and bug fixes) through to September 30th, 2023".

Those buying after February 1st 2023 will only get maintainance updates. After September 30th the new strategy will affect all users of the perpetual license. So if you already bought C23  after the release, you will get the support for new cameras and lenses 'till September 30th. After that date you won't get that support and have to buy a new license instead for new cameras, as said above.

Since they dropped the discount for existing users according to their new strategy coming into effect in 2023, it remains to be seen how the "loyality program" will turn out by then. That said, since they want to make more profit I expect "upgrades" to become significantly more expensive compared to the upgrades for existing users up to now. It's just speculation, though. But as the Petapixel article summarizes very well, it's clear they want to push their user base to the subscription - as I already said in another post. Though they still confirm that the perpetual model will furthermore remain an option I don't trust that statement in the long run. Their new strategy is just an intermediate step, IMO. Remember Adobe's confirmation to continue with the perpetual LR license. We will see.

Wolfgang
 

by Scott Fairbairn on Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:37 am
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WJaekel wrote:
E.J. Peiker wrote: My only question that has not been answered is if the maintenaince updates, which will still be issued between versions, will include new camera and lens profiles for gear that comes to market between versions.
I don't think that the support of new cameras and lens profiles is part of the maintainance in the future (after September 30, at least). You have to buy a new license by then. That's also indirectly pointed out by Capture One's Jack Williams in the Pentapixel article linked above.

However, if I correctly understand their support FAQ, - those who bought C23 before February 1, will still get feature updates (until Sept 30, 2023):

"The new license model will be implemented on Feb 1st, 2023, impacting only new purchases of Capture One Pro. So you will be getting free updates (incl. features and bug fixes) through to September 30th, 2023".

Those buying after February 1st 2023 will only get maintainance updates. After September 30th the new strategy will affect all users of the perpetual license. So if you already bought C23  after the release, you will get the support for new cameras and lenses 'till September 30th. After that date you won't get that support and have to buy a new license instead for new cameras, as said above.

Since they dropped the discount for existing users according to their new strategy coming into effect in 2023, it remains to be seen how the "loyality program" will turn out by then. That said, since they want to make more profit I expect "upgrades" to become significantly more expensive compared to the upgrades for existing users up to now. It's just speculation, though. But as the Petapixel article summarizes very well, it's clear they want to push their user base to the subscription - as I already said in another post. Though they still confirm that the perpetual model will furthermore remain an option I don't trust that statement in the long run. Their new strategy is just an intermediate step, IMO. Remember Adobe's confirmation to continue with the perpetual LR license. We will see.

Wolfgang
I agree, this is a stepping stone to full subscription model. It appears all software is heading that way. A vastly smaller photography user base means more money is needed to maintain revenue I guess. There are a lot of software packages out there, I can’t see them all surviving a switch to a subscription model. There’s only so much money people are willing to spend, and almost everything from streaming networks to news services want your subscription dollars. I wonder if manufacturers software will gain in popularity? I’ve never liked anything by Canon or Nikon in terms of workflow, but if they provide it for free, maybe it will gain users?
 

by Wildflower-nut on Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:47 pm
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so are there any opinions on whether the annual subscription or full license is going to be the best way to go (least expensive)?
 

by E.J. Peiker on Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:12 pm
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Wildflower-nut wrote:so are there any opinions on whether the annual subscription or full license is going to be the best way to go (least expensive)?
We will have to wait until February to know that for sure.
 

by Hoppy on Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:58 am
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The issue is that with minor feature updates every couple of months, think new camera support, that bug fixes will be very limited unless you "upgrade". A constant cost moving forward.

My main issue with subscriptions is the complete loss of accessing you images and edits once the subscription stops or lack of internet connection or an auto renewal that does not go through. Topaz now has a one year update package where bug fixes or new features are available but beyond that you can still use the software after your year is up. That seems fair.

My issue with Capture One is the underhand way they withhold information so that customers are not able to make an informed decision about upgrading or not.
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by signgrap on Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:25 am
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Hoppy wrote:The issue is that with minor feature updates every couple of months, think new camera support, that bug fixes will be very limited unless you "upgrade".  A constant cost moving forward.

My main issue with subscriptions is the complete loss of accessing you images and edits once the subscription stops or lack of internet connection or an auto renewal that does not go through.  Topaz now has a one year update package where bug fixes or new features are available but beyond that you can still use the software after your year is up.  That seems fair.

My issue with Capture One is the underhand way they withhold information so that customers are not able to make an informed decision about upgrading or not.
Totally agree!
Dick Ludwig
 

by E.J. Peiker on Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:41 pm
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signgrap wrote:
Hoppy wrote: My issue with Capture One is the underhand way they withhold information so that customers are not able to make an informed decision about upgrading or not.
Totally agree!
I interpret that as they are still arguing about it internally ;)
 

by E.J. Peiker on Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:00 am
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Here are the details on the new Capture One licensing program including pricing of the two options:
https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us ... -Ownership

Here are the details on the loyalty program:
https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us ... ffects-You

More on the loyalty program:
https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us ... ty-Program

They made this overly complicated IMHO…
 

by SantaFeJoe on Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:20 am
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E.J. Peiker wrote:...........
They made this overly complicated IMHO…
Agree 100%! Sounds like it was written by lawyers!!!

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
 

by Wildflower-nut on Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:56 am
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seems expensive
 

by E.J. Peiker on Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:55 pm
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This from a former Phase One VP who was there during the development of Capture One:
https://photopxl.com/capture-one-we-are-breaking-up/
 

by E.J. Peiker on Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:13 am
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Finally, we know what the loyalty discount is in their new model.  For a perpetual license the $299 upgrade price to the new version out in October is 40% for those that have upgraded religiously over the years.  That actually puts the price lower than the old $199 upgrade price.  This discount goes up by 20% each year meaning that after 5 annual upgrades (clock started in 2021) you get the 5th one for free.  I still think their model is unnecessarily complex but at least in 2022, they did continue to update, upgrade and add camera models throughout the year and did not make you wait for the next full release to realize these.

New features in the version due out in October that are being teased include AI masking which is supposed to reduce complex mask making time dramatically and dramatically improved tethering.  The first could be big for nature photographers depending on how well it works, the second one not so much.
 

by WJaekel on Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:57 am
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E.J. Peiker wrote: Finally, we know what the loyalty discount is in their new model.  For a perpetual license the $299 upgrade price to the new version out in October is 40% for those that have upgraded religiously over the years.  That actually puts the price lower than the old $199 upgrade price.  This discount goes up by 20% each year meaning that after 5 annual upgrades (clock started in 2021) you get the 5th one for free.  I still think their model is unnecessarily complex but at least in 2022, they did continue to update, upgrade and add camera models throughout the year and did not make you wait for the next full release to realize these.

New features in the version due out in October that are being teased include AI masking which is supposed to reduce complex mask making time dramatically and dramatically improved tethering.  The first could be big for nature photographers depending on how well it works, the second one not so much.
Well, I had purchased  C1-23 before February 2023,-  precisely back on November 27, 2022 and thus have been eligible for updates and new features until September 30th, 2023 according to their new timetable with the period therefore actually being shorter than the free upgrades for 1 year, that they claimed elsewhere in the new policy, btw. Nevertheless, I just updated to C1-23 v16.2.4 without problems which obviously still is the current version. However, it's October 22 now and there's still no release date of the new version on their site - only teasers but no concrete list what to expect in order to take an informed decision to buy in time before the discount of 40% possibly gets halved. Until recently I had not got the code for the loyality program either, originally announced for February 2023. But it's shown in my account now. So that's ok.

Anyway, first of all I need to decide if I buy a new perpetual license in advance to get 40% discount - or wait until the new version actually is released and the new features are effectively known.  However, if the release date is delayed after Nov 27, 2023 (see above), I will get only 20% discount. Moreover,if I stay with the perpetual model, I will have to pay for a new license again once new features (with a new dot-version) are released or/and if I purchase a new camera.. And so you'd have to pay for upgrades several times a year if you want to stay up to date with new features (and stay on a perpetual license). Also, updates with bug fixes (.x.x releases) are only available for free until the next .x version is released.

I've been a loyal C1-customer for more than 40 years and since have purchased all versions except C1-22..But I fully agree with the opinion of the former Phase One VP Kevin Raber you had linked above. When Adobe switched to the subscription model there was a furious reaction of many users,me included.  Many photogs pointed at PhaseOne as an alternative and praised them for standing with the perpetual model and loyality for their photographers' base - in contrary to Adobe's approach. But in consequence of Adobe's change, I already was sceptical at that time as for C1's future strategy  and have said it thereafter many times :- It's just a matter of time until they go the same route. Of course, you can object that C1 currently still gives you the option of a perpetual license while Adobe does not. However, their pricing and update/upgrade strategy makes it totally clear that they want to drive you on the subscription route. Locking out all  perpetual licence holders from new features while offering them only to the subscribers in kind of a two-class system is a clear proof of their goal, and very poor "reward" and depreciation of their long-time paying customers. I bet that the perpetual model will be skipped completely before long - once they have tied the majority of customers to the subcription, at least. Therefore, in my opinion, the current alternative is probably just a transitional step. Beyond that, the new model is much more complex and intransparent. I had to read their edits, price lists, and descriptions carefully and repeatedly to (hopefully) get it. There are still traps and intransparencies, though.

At first glance, you are certainly better off with the subscription model compared to the perpetual license in terms of costs and features for now, as C1 naturally intends. I personally don't want to be tied to more and more subscriptions and to be dependent on life-long rental models for all my work, though. Additionally I've  lost faith in C1 regarding their hypocritical "loyality" to the customers as pointed out above, also in their promises and offers, i.e. to switch back to a perpetual licence at a discount (or for free after 5 years of subscription) once you want to terminate the subscription. I also don't trust in the statement that you can keep your current perpetual license (working ??). They easily could change their mind, raise prices for the subscription, introduce new programs etc.  And as Mr Raber mentioned, nobody knows how long C1 will be around to get the loyality program to work. The company isn't as big as Adobe and can fail taking the wrong approach. The monthly subscription rate (amounting to 18,25 €/month here) is already significantly more expensive than Adobe's Photo plan - while C1 has offered less improvements in the last versions,-  for nature photographers, at least. Of course, nobody knows, if/when Adobe will raise the prices, too, after the increasing implementation of AI. But I think we have to admit, that Adobe's pricing was fair and unchanged over many years now - contrary to the assumption.while C1 has considerably raised the prices for the new perpetual version every autumn by offering not much more in the past 2 or 3 releases. That said, CaptureOne's IQ in processing has been the big plus and superior compared to LR, IMO. Beyond that, many experienced photogs agree that Adobe is specifically inferior for Canon's RAWs regarding profiles and noise. Seems Adobe and Canon are no good friends for whatever reason..That's one reason why I had paid the annual prices for the perpetual C1 license which included all updates over the year and no limitations, at least. And I haven't used LR for post processing up to now. But things may change, and there are other options, too. I haven't decided yet if I can come to terms with the changes  - or need to give up on C1 completely after all and look elsewhere . In any case, I am very disappointed with C1's strategy of confusing with complex charts, options and numbers, probably to conceal the main goal, which is only to milk the customers, disregarding THEIR loyality included..

Wolfgang


Last edited by WJaekel on Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
 

by Tom Robbins on Sun Oct 22, 2023 5:30 am
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Thank you EJ and Wolfgang for your assessments.

As a long time C1 user I'd prefer not having to switch, but it looks like it will become necessary eventually. C1's interface was unique, getting used to a totally different one might be a challenge at this point.
 

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