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by MalcolmBenn on Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:31 am
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I'm considering picking up an R5 but I'm curious about peoples experiences using older EF lenses with the R5.  I'm thinking of the 500mm F4 IS and 300 F2.8 IS specifically.  I bought these back in 2009 which would make them Version 1 although it doesn't say that on the lense.  I saw a YouTube video that commented that the shutter rate of the R5 would be slower than the advertised 12 and 20 fps if you weren't using a Version II lense.  Anybody have any experience with this ... thanks in advance.
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by E.J. Peiker on Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:41 am
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If you are referring to Tony Northrup's test, ignore it. He also says the Sony a1 doesn't shoot 30 FPS but he clearly did not set the camera up properly to do so. He is so hasty to be the first to put out videos on new cameras and nearly always gets some major point(s) completely wrong. To get that kind of frame rate, the camera must be in release mode, have a fast shutter speed (I believe it's 1/1000 with the R5), use electronic shutter, and have a fully charged battery. If you don't do those things, the frame rate can drop to about 7 FPS with that lens. I've seen where people get a true 20 FPS even with older lenses like the old 400/5.6 using electronic shutter. That said, you do not want to use electronic shutter if you are shooting something that has fast motion, like a bird flapping it's wings on the R5 as it's sensor read-out isn't fast enough to prevent the rolling shutter effect but under the vast majority of other circumstances, electronic shutter is absolutely fine on the R5. The only camera currently on the market that I would try to photograph a bird that is flapping it's wings with a fully electronic shutter is the a1 although you can get away with it with the a9.
 

by MalcolmBenn on Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:34 am
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E.J. Peiker wrote:If you are referring to Tony Northrup's test, ignore it.  He also says the Sony a1 doesn't shoot 30 FPS but he clearly did not set the camera up properly to do so.  He is so hasty to be the first to put out videos on new cameras and nearly always gets some major point(s) completely wrong.  To get that kind of frame rate, the camera must be in release mode, have a fast shutter speed (I believe it's 1/1000 with the R5), use electronic shutter, and have a fully charged battery.  If you don't do those things, the frame rate can drop to about 7 FPS with that lens.  I've seen where people get a true 20 FPS even with older lenses like the old 400/5.6 using electronic shutter.  That said, you do not want to use electronic shutter if you are shooting something that has fast motion, like a bird flapping it's wings on the R5 as it's sensor read-out isn't fast enough to prevent the rolling shutter effect but under the vast majority of other circumstances, electronic shutter is absolutely fine on the R5.  The only camera currently on the market that I would try to photograph a bird that is flapping it's wings with a fully electronic shutter is the a1 although you can get away with it with the a9.
Hi E.J.
Thanks for the reply.  I actually hadn't seen Tony's comment on the older EF lenses but I'll have a look for fun.  The one I specifically remember seeing was from Duade Paton.  
Canon R5 vs R6 Review for Bird Photography - Do You Need 45mp? Let's Find Out! - YouTube

At 4:30 he starts to comment on frame rate and older EF lenses.  He only references two lenses unfortunately (500mm f4 VII and the 400mm F 5.6) but it got me thinking about my VI copies of the 500mm and 300mm.  Aside from a couple of outings and family photography I've pretty much not had a camera in my hands for a year and a half and I just started to think about the R5 yesterday so I have a bunch of reading to do ....  Technology passes you by in a hurry when you stop paying attention.    
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by Greg Schneider on Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:52 pm
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While I don't own those v1 lenses, this Canon FAQ (it must exist on an English site somewhere) indicates they should be fine for 20fps ES but doesn't list them under the 12fps mechanical section. I'm not sure if that's an omission or accurate data.

https://faq.canon.jp/app/answers/detail/a_id/101699
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by Joel Eade on Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:59 am
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I have an R5 and shoot with a version II EF 600mm ... it will function in the H+ mode at 12 fps with mechanical shutter as well as 20 fps with electronic shutter.

My son has a Version I EF 500mm and the R5 will not allow H+ mode with the mechanical shutter and with just crude experimentation I would estimate that it shoots at 7 fps. The electronic shutter, however, does function.

There is a page in the R5 manual which lists which lenses are compatible with H+ mode.
 

by Mike Veltri on Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:11 am
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MalcolmBenn wrote:I'm considering picking up an R5 but I'm curious about peoples experiences using older EF lenses with the R5.  I'm thinking of the 500mm F4 IS and 300 F2.8 IS specifically.  I bought these back in 2009 which would make them Version 1 although it doesn't say that on the lense.  I saw a YouTube video that commented that the shutter rate of the R5 would be slower than the advertised 12 and 20 fps if you weren't using a Version II lense.  Anybody have any experience with this ... thanks in advance.
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by Joel Eade on Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:10 am
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I would love to know the reason that the H+ mode on the R5 is not fully backward compatible with all EF lenses.
 

by MalcolmBenn on Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:15 pm
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Greg, Mike and Joel, thank you for the input and the links. It sounds like the older V1 lenses are a limiting factor for the mechanical shutter but not the electronic shutter. I like my older versions and I don't feel like dropping another boat load of money to get the new RF versions so I think I'm in a bit of a box on this at least from the perspective of the mechanical shutter option. I gather that the Canon mirrorless bodies don't provide for any electronic shutter noise ... is that true ie. is it perfectly silent? Do any of those that use the gear in electronic mode find the silent shutter action odd or difficult to deal with in burst mode i.e. there is no audible feed back?
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by Ed Cordes on Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:59 pm
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The electronic shutter on my R5 makes zero noise. I have used my 500 F4 V1 with Canon adapter on the R5 and have had great success. Not sure how many FPS I achieved, but it was more than sufficient. I do know that in electronic shutter mode you had better be prepared to edit a lot of images!
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by Mike Veltri on Sat May 01, 2021 4:16 am
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MalcolmBenn wrote:Greg, Mike and Joel, thank you for the input and the links.  It sounds like the older V1 lenses are a limiting factor for the mechanical shutter but not the electronic shutter.  I like my older versions and I don't feel like dropping another boat load of money to get the new RF versions so I think I'm in a bit of a box on this at least from the perspective of the mechanical shutter option.  I gather that the Canon mirrorless bodies don't provide for any electronic shutter noise ... is that true ie. is it perfectly silent?  Do any of those that use the gear in electronic mode find the silent shutter action odd or difficult to deal with in burst mode i.e. there is no audible feed back?
The camera is completely silent in ES. A white box comes up on the screen indicating that your shooting, and that's it and with no noise, its very easy to rifle off dozens and dozens of images when its silent. I have only noticed rolling shutter effect of large slow birds, but shooting fast birds like the long-tailed ducks is a breeze. Coming from the Canon 1Dx II, I have no regrets going to the R5. Sharper images than using the 600 II and 1DxII. :)


Good luck.
 

by EGrav on Sat May 01, 2021 7:41 am
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The rolling shutter effect seems to be a little over emphasized (at least in my experience.) I was practicing with my R5 shooting hummingbirds and purple martins in my backyard. Used ES the whole time and only had 1 shot that just the tip of a wing looked a little odd. That was with 600 F4 V2 and 100-400 V2 + 1.4 TC V3.


Last edited by EGrav on Sat May 01, 2021 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Sat May 01, 2021 2:44 pm
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EGrav wrote:The rolling shutter effect seems to be a little over emphasized (at least in my experience.) I was practicing with my R5 shooting hummingbirds and purple martins in my backyard. Used ES the whole time and only had 1 shot that just the tip of a wing looked a little odd. That was with 600 F4 V2 and 100-400 V2 + 1.4 TC V3.
It depends a lot on how big in the frame the subject is.  It's when the subject is moving rapidly and spans from the top of the frame to the bottom of the frame where it is most pronounced since the bottom of the frame gets exposed at a completely different time than the top of the frame, especially with really fast shutter speeds.  I wouldn't expect it to affect a hummingbird shot that much, but something big that flaps it's wings relatively fast, you would notice it the most.

I saw a comparison recently of a baseball flying through the air with the R5 compared to the a1.  The R5 looked like a diagonal egg where the a1 was pretty close to a perfect circle.  This is due to the fact that the a1 scans the frame top to bottom in about 1/4 the time of an r5.  This is one of the things that Canon has already said that they will address in their upcoming action oriented cameras like the r3 and the inevitable r1.
 

by MalcolmBenn on Sun May 02, 2021 10:33 am
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Thanks so much for all the comments and input. I've been ignoring developments on the mirrorless front for the past year+ so this was all very eye opening .... actually I've been ignoring photography in general for that period so the developments were actually stunning. I just wish the camera manufacturers would offer a straight up sports camera without the added video stuff which doesn't interest me in the least, but that will never happen. I started to look at the R6 as a possibility rather than the R5 ... it's certainly a lot cheaper and I don't feel the need of 45mpx and the subsequent computer related processing and storage issues. Apart from the added mega pixels, a slightly less sophisticated LCD, added video capability, SD cards versus CF, and somewhat better weather sealing these cameras strike me as being basically the same. Yes I know there are likely image quality aspects related to the different sensors but I believe the R6 has the same sensor as the 1DXIII. All in all the R6 looks like pretty good value ... the use of my V1 L Series glass is still an open question however at least when using the mechanical shutter but further reading seems to suggest a frame rate approaching 9fps .... so maybe the R6 is the ticket.
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by Gilles A. on Tue May 04, 2021 8:26 pm
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Hi Malcolm, long time no see. :-)
One issue I have with my EF 600mm F/4 II and R5 is that I can't use the TC 1.4x anymore. The R5 is fast (H+ mode) with the 600mm lens but as soon as I add the TC 1.4x, I receive the Err01 message. Yeah, I cleaned everything but I always have this error message.
So I don't know if that could be also a problem with the 500mm.
BTW, I have the same error with my two TC 1.4 III.
However, I use both TC 1.4 with my EF 300mm F/2.8 II without any problem.
My 600, 300 and 300+TC1.4 are as fast or even faster with my R5 than with my 5D Mk IV.
 

by MalcolmBenn on Wed May 05, 2021 12:43 pm
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Gilles A. wrote:Hi Malcolm, long time no see. :-)
One issue I have with my EF 600mm F/4 II and R5 is that I can't use the TC 1.4x anymore. The R5 is fast (H+ mode) with the 600mm lens but as soon as I add the TC 1.4x, I receive the Err01 message. Yeah, I cleaned everything but I always have this error message.
So I don't know if that could be also a problem with the 500mm.
BTW, I have the same error with my two TC 1.4 III.
However, I use both TC 1.4 with my EF 300mm F/2.8 II without any problem.
My 600, 300 and 300+TC1.4 are as fast or even faster with my R5 than with my 5D Mk IV.
Hi Gilles, good to hear from you ... hope you're well.  I remember someone a long time ago telling me to make sure and attach the extender to the lense first and then attach the pair to the body but I'vr never had issues with doing it either way as long as the camera was turned off.  Something I have seen is that although the pins and contacts might be clean one of the pins might be sticking.  Have a look at the pins on the extender (on the lense side) and using a clean cloth depress each of them, if you use something long and pointy you'll be able to see the pins retract and reset.  
I'm looking at the R6 tomorrow ... don't need the better video and I sure don't need 45mps :)
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by E.J. Peiker on Thu May 06, 2021 1:08 pm
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Gilles A. wrote:Hi Malcolm, long time no see. :-)
One issue I have with my EF 600mm F/4 II and R5 is that I can't use the TC 1.4x anymore. The R5 is fast (H+ mode) with the 600mm lens but as soon as I add the TC 1.4x, I receive the Err01 message. Yeah, I cleaned everything but I always have this error message.
So I don't know if that could be also a problem with the 500mm.
BTW, I have the same error with my two TC 1.4 III.
However, I use both TC 1.4 with my EF 300mm F/2.8 II without any problem.
My 600, 300 and 300+TC1.4 are as fast or even faster with my R5 than with my 5D Mk IV.
If you get the same error with two different teleconverters then there is a problem with the lens.  This should not be happening.  the first thing I would check is the screws on the lens mount of the lens.  One or more may be loose or backed out slightly.
 

by MalcolmBenn on Thu May 13, 2021 6:26 am
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Thanks again for all the input. I ended up buying an R6 with the battery grip and the Control Ring Adapter. So far I'm very impressed with the camera but I'll admit the AEAF will take a bit of getting used to. My older V1 EF lenses all work fine but they don't achieve 12 fps in mechanical mode more like 6 or 7 fps but I do get 20fps in electronic shutter mode. There is just the barest hint of blackout in the VF when using the camera in mechanical mode but it's not a problem and the quality of the image in the VF is as good as an optical VF and I think the diopter adjustment is better. All in all a very nice camera.
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