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by Bill Chambers on Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:27 am
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Gary Gulash wrote:Hi Bill.  Not related to your question, but since you mentioned it, what medium format system did you purchase? Medium format is enticing (but I suspect my computer would need an upgrade to chug on those files).
Hi Gary,

I went with the Fuji GFX50S.  I could only afford 2 lenses initially, the 45-100 f/4 (35mm equivalent = 36-79)and the 100-200 f/5.6 (35mm equivalent = 79-158), but I plan on collecting the 23 f/4 (35mm equivalent = 18mm) and the 250 w/ 1.4 teleconverter) over the next 6 months to 1 year.  After that, I MIGHT decide to pick up the 120 Macro (equivalent = 95mm).  E.J. warns that the 200 f/4 is quite heavy and large and a pain to hike with, etc., but at almost 70, I no longer backpack and don't hike long distances (anything over a couple of miles) anymore.

At 50 MP, the file sizes are not that much larger than my Nikon D810, but the image quality is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the D810.  I went with the 50S based on conversations with a friend of mine, Igor Doncov, and with E.J..  Even though I had seen lots of Igor's files, I was still shocked by the image quality difference between the 50S and the D810.  There is virtually ZERO noise so far (I haven't shot anything over 400 ISO yet), and the sharpness and color have been so easy to work with.  

I can't really put a finger on the reason why, but the D810 files were difficult to process with Capture One Pro & PS.  Igor said he had the same issue.  I can't explain why, but they were just plain out difficult to get the color I wanted, and the D810 had a surprising amount of noise (nothing that couldn't be compensated for with Topaz Denoise).  There were MANY times I would spend anywhere from 1-4 hours processing an D810 image before I was satisfied with it.  With the Fuji, I haven't spent over 45 minutes on an image yet, and I'm what you would consider a pain in the ass perfectionist when it comes to processing.  Of course, I've only been shooting the 50S for two weeks, and am still learning the layout of all the buttons, functions, etc., but I'm loving it.  It has been quite a culture shock changing from Nikon, which I've shot for 40+ years, but I'm slowly catching on.  The ergonomics on the Nikon were MUCH better than the 50S, but I'll get used to that.

I can highly recommend the 50S, but now that Fuji is bring out the GFX100S (100 MP), you might want to consider that instead, as it's just a little more money.  I think it should be available pretty soon.
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by E.J. Peiker on Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:12 pm
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Bill Chambers wrote:
Gary Gulash wrote:Hi Bill.  Not related to your question, but since you mentioned it, what medium format system did you purchase? Medium format is enticing (but I suspect my computer would need an upgrade to chug on those files).
Hi Gary,

I went with the Fuji GFX50S.  I could only afford 2 lenses initially, the 45-100 f/4 (35mm equivalent = 36-79)and the 100-200 f/5.6 (35mm equivalent = 79-158), but I plan on collecting the 23 f/4 (35mm equivalent = 18mm) and the 250 w/ 1.4 teleconverter) over the next 6 months to 1 year.  After that, I MIGHT decide to pick up the 120 Macro (equivalent = 95mm).  E.J. warns that the 200 f/4 is quite heavy and large and a pain to hike with, etc., but at almost 70, I no longer backpack and don't hike long distances (anything over a couple of miles) anymore.

At 50 MP, the file sizes are not that much larger than my Nikon D810, but the image quality is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the D810.  I went with the 50S based on conversations with a friend of mine, Igor Doncov, and with E.J..  Even though I had seen lots of Igor's files, I was still shocked by the image quality difference between the 50S and the D810.  There is virtually ZERO noise so far (I haven't shot anything over 400 ISO yet), and the sharpness and color have been so easy to work with.  

I can't really put a finger on the reason why, but the D810 files were difficult to process with Capture One Pro & PS.  Igor said he had the same issue.  I can't explain why, but they were just plain out difficult to get the color I wanted, and the D810 had a surprising amount of noise (nothing that couldn't be compensated for with Topaz Denoise).  There were MANY times I would spend anywhere from 1-4 hours processing an D810 image before I was satisfied with it.  With the Fuji, I haven't spent over 45 minutes on an image yet, and I'm what you would consider a pain in the ass perfectionist when it comes to processing.  Of course, I've only been shooting the 50S for two weeks, and am still learning the layout of all the buttons, functions, etc., but I'm loving it.  It has been quite a culture shock changing from Nikon, which I've shot for 40+ years, but I'm slowly catching on.  The ergonomics on the Nikon were MUCH better than the 50S, but I'll get used to that.

I can highly recommend the 50S, but now that Fuji is bring out the GFX100S (100 MP), you might want to consider that instead, as it's just a little more money.  I think it should be available pretty soon.
Bill, this makes me wonder if your D810 was set to 12 bit capture mode rather than 14...
 

by Bill Chambers on Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:49 pm
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Hmmm, I will check to be sure, but I'm pretty sure it is set to 14.
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by Gary Gulash on Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:37 pm
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Thankyou for your thorough explanation on your move to Fuji medium format Bill. I just went back and noticed your mention of the Fuji back in another thread dealing with the intro of the new GFX 100s. Fuji is really offering a compelling alternative to full frame. That GFX 100s looks smaller than the single digit Nikon dslr's!
 

by E.J. Peiker on Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:14 am
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Gary Gulash wrote:Thankyou for your thorough explanation on your move to Fuji medium format Bill. I just went back and noticed your mention of the Fuji back in another thread dealing with the intro of the new GFX 100s. Fuji is really offering a compelling alternative to full frame. That GFX 100s looks smaller than the single digit Nikon dslr's!
It is smaller that a single digit Nikon by a lot!!!
Image
We have gotten a bit off track as the GFX 100S is definitely not a wildlife/bird camera, this discussion is probably best in the GFX 100S thread ;)
 

by mlgray12 on Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:17 pm
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Scott Fairbairn wrote:
Bill Chambers wrote:
photoman4343 wrote:I also recommend the Nikon D500 and the Nikon 500mm f5.6 pf lens and the Nikon 1.4x tc if needed. This is what I use for most of my wildlife shooting.

If you are willing to use a camera with a 1 inch sensor, the  Sony Cyber-shot RX10 IV
with a fixed 24-600mm might meet your needs.
Thank you, Joe.  I will look at the D500.  I haven't looked at the 500 PF yet, but have heard good things about it.
I have the D500 and 500PF. It is a fantastic combo for birds and wildlife. The lens is almost comically small compared to a 500f4. But it easily fits into a bag and is a very lightweight combo. IMO, if you're shooting Nikon, I would skip their mirrorless for now. It packs down into a small shoulder bag quite easily. 
If you are considering Sony, the 200-600 is a great choice, and the zoom is convenient being internal, and it only requires a quarter turn to go from 200-600. It is effortless to zoom in when panning flying birds, for example. It also works well with the 1.4x TC on an A9. I would not recommend any Sony crop body. The ergonomics are horrible on all the A6XXX series cameras. There is nothing wrong with their performance, but the bodies are tiny, controls are tiny, and the viewfinder is as well. Using them with gloves is a torture test. IMO, of course.
Hi -everyone - I have been doing wildlife photography seems like forever - all Nikon for over 40 years - including big glass like 600 f/4 and 400 f/2.8
But got rid of all big glass for the new 500mm f/5.6PF and agree with everything Scott says - don't really miss my big glass at all
Up until last 6 months I use 2 D850.s exclusively - what I consider to be best DSLR ever made - but I bought a Z7 and replaced all my smaller glass with new z-mount lens 14-24mm f/2.8, 24-70mm f/2.8 and 70-200mm f/2.8. New z-mount glass is better than f-mount usually lighter and has third ring that lets you change f-stop or exposure compensation on the fly much easier than using camera controls
This is great when shooting mirrorless since you can see those changes in the viewfinder - no more mistakes that give you black or blown out shots. Other advantages are much quieter when using mechanical shutter or completely silent when using pure electronic shutter.
Based on his I have sold both D850's and shoot Z7 only - looking at getting z7II - Other big advantage is teleconverters work tons better unless you go through process to focus tuning - plus since lens focus on sensor - zooms and environmental differences also don't impact focus
Now for drawbacks - 
1) action photography is lots harder - at least Z7 - tracking focus not near as good as D850 and I miss that - but that is continuously improving though based on reviews Z7II still can't compete with D850
2) Having to get EV viewfinder back up when it automatically shuts down to conserve battery - but I agree with others battery live shorter but not big issue
3) EV viewfinder not as good as mirror but you can even use zoom on EV viewfinder for critical focus

Even with these drawbacks - I made the jump and know it will cost me some action photos - but all other advantages will keep me here and I suspect technology will close gaps quickly - if not maybe I will have to buy the new D850 replacement - but only will work on few f-mount lens I have left
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by mlgray12 on Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:57 pm
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Bill another option is Nikon Z7 with adapter and Nikon 500mm f/5.6 PF and throw in TC 1.4x. One caution if you want to shoot Birds in Flight you need to stay with DSLR. I have been shooting for over 40 years with Nikon - I have let go of all my really big glass 600 f/4, 400 f/2.8 etc.. and biggest lens I have is the 500 f/5.6 PF and with the Z7 or Z6 it will be lighter than a D810 with 100-400 lens I think. I also sold both my D850's which I miss for serious action photography like BIF but I am making do and getting great bird photos especially shooting out of blinds. I also bought the trilogy of new z mount f2.8 lens from 14 to 200mm which are an improvement over their f-mount brothers. Love ability to change f/stop or exposure compensation with third lens ring - and the cameras are lots quieter than the DSLRs - big advantage working close in blinds.
There are still drawbacks with mirrorless for bird/wildlife photography especially fast action but that will be fixed down the road a technology progresses and not sure even new z7II can compete with D850 on focus of fast action, but big z-mount lens are great with lots of advantages, quiet to silent camera big plus, being able to zoom viewfinder is also a plus, not to mention you can see exospore changes in view finder
Mirrorless is the future in my book and I have made the plunge with some sacrifices but I can live with them for time being
Plus for anyone interested (not my thing) but shooting video on Z7 is night and day better than a D850
Hope this helps - I may have jumped little early but I am getting great bird shots with Z7 and lots better landscape/nightscape camera with my Z-mount lens
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by Scott Fairbairn on Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:08 am
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mlgray12 wrote:Bill another option is Nikon Z7 with adapter and Nikon 500mm f/5.6 PF and throw in TC 1.4x. One caution if you want to shoot Birds in Flight you need to stay with DSLR. I have been shooting for over 40 years with Nikon - I have let go of all my really big glass 600 f/4, 400 f/2.8 etc.. and biggest lens I have is the 500 f/5.6 PF and with the Z7 or Z6 it will be lighter than a D810 with 100-400 lens I think. I also sold both my D850's which I miss for serious action photography like BIF but I am making do and getting great bird photos especially shooting out of blinds. I also bought  the trilogy of new z mount f2.8 lens from 14 to 200mm which are an improvement over their f-mount brothers. Love ability to change f/stop or exposure compensation with third lens ring - and the cameras are lots quieter than the DSLRs - big advantage working close in blinds.
There are still drawbacks with mirrorless for bird/wildlife photography especially fast action but that will be fixed down the road a technology progresses and not sure even new z7II can compete with D850 on focus of fast action, but big z-mount lens are great with lots of advantages, quiet to silent camera big plus, being able to zoom viewfinder is also a plus, not to mention you can see exospore changes in view finder
Mirrorless is the future in my book and I have made the plunge with some sacrifices but I can live with them for time being
Plus for anyone interested (not my thing) but shooting video on Z7 is night and day better than a D850
Hope this helps - I may have jumped little early but I am getting great bird shots with Z7 and lots better landscape/nightscape camera with my Z-mount lens

I haven't used the D850, but I have the Z7 and D500, and I had the Z7II for a short time before returning it(I felt there was not enough of an improvement to justify the money). The mirrorless AF system is a bit awkward, and the lock-on is poor compared to the competition. But other than that, they are nice cameras. I don't feel Nikon is on the same level as their DSLRs in terms of AF and IMO; I'd avoid their mirrorless options for now if fast action is important to you. It's not that they are bad; they are just a step down from the D850/D500 series. I'm sure Nikon will release a top-level mirrorless this year, so I'd save my pennies for it. Version two of the Z7 and Z6 IMO should have been what they released at the start of their foray into mirrorless.
 

by mlgray12 on Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:38 am
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Scott Fairbairn wrote:
mlgray12 wrote:Bill another option is Nikon Z7 with adapter and Nikon 500mm f/5.6 PF and throw in TC 1.4x. One caution if you want to shoot Birds in Flight you need to stay with DSLR. I have been shooting for over 40 years with Nikon - I have let go of all my really big glass 600 f/4, 400 f/2.8 etc.. and biggest lens I have is the 500 f/5.6 PF and with the Z7 or Z6 it will be lighter than a D810 with 100-400 lens I think. I also sold both my D850's which I miss for serious action photography like BIF but I am making do and getting great bird photos especially shooting out of blinds. I also bought  the trilogy of new z mount f2.8 lens from 14 to 200mm which are an improvement over their f-mount brothers. Love ability to change f/stop or exposure compensation with third lens ring - and the cameras are lots quieter than the DSLRs - big advantage working close in blinds.
There are still drawbacks with mirrorless for bird/wildlife photography especially fast action but that will be fixed down the road a technology progresses and not sure even new z7II can compete with D850 on focus of fast action, but big z-mount lens are great with lots of advantages, quiet to silent camera big plus, being able to zoom viewfinder is also a plus, not to mention you can see exospore changes in view finder
Mirrorless is the future in my book and I have made the plunge with some sacrifices but I can live with them for time being
Plus for anyone interested (not my thing) but shooting video on Z7 is night and day better than a D850
Hope this helps - I may have jumped little early but I am getting great bird shots with Z7 and lots better landscape/nightscape camera with my Z-mount lens

I haven't used the D850, but I have the Z7 and D500, and I had the Z7II for a short time before returning it(I felt there was not enough of an improvement to justify the money). The mirrorless AF system is a bit awkward, and the lock-on is poor compared to the competition. But other than that, they are nice cameras. I don't feel Nikon is on the same level as their DSLRs in terms of AF and IMO; I'd avoid their mirrorless options for now if fast action is important to you. It's not that they are bad; they are just a step down from the D850/D500 series. I'm sure Nikon will release a top-level mirrorless this year, so I'd save my pennies for it. Version two of the Z7 and Z6 IMO should have been what they released at the start of their foray into mirrorless.
Scott - I agree with your assessment - especially on Z7 should have been more like z7II on release - but all the advantages of mirrorless I made the jump - I kept my D850's ( which are absolutely great camera's) until I had done quite a bit of testing with Z7
I knew I would be hurting on action shots - mostly BIF for me - larger wildlife the Z7 auto focus can keep up - but being able to focus on almost entire frame, focusing on film plane especially with zooms, better Z-mount lens, etc - I decided to go ahead and eliminate DSLR's - mirrorless including Nikon will catch up - I have my name in on a Z7II but what I have seen so far I will probably put that off for a new release Z 8or 9 - I not even carrying a backup but with Covid and no real travel plans - I can wait
Mostly just shooting in the great outdoors of West Texas where I have really got more into landscapes where the Z7 is better than D850
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by Ed Cordes on Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:33 pm
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IMHO the Canon R5 and the Sony Alpha 1 are the leaders in AF tech and overall state of the art in 35 mm format. Sony is 1.5 X the cost of the R5 but has more FPS and 5 more MP as well as les heating problems in video. I own an R5 and absolutely love it.
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by Joe Subolefsky on Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:15 pm
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Throw another 600 buck in and order a R5 and RF 100-500 and be done with it.  You will have a more then capable setup for bird/wildlife and certainly won’t be disappointed.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:45 am
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Joe Subolefsky wrote:Throw another 600 buck in and order a R5 and RF 100-500 and be done with it.  You will have a more then capable setup for bird/wildlife and certainly won’t be disappointed.
Or a 200-600 on the Sony side and it's an internal zoom making it super easy to handle since it doesn't change in size.  Also it only takes a quarter turn to get from 200-600 and is f/6.3 rather than f/7.1.  Nikon doesn't have anything yet in the mirrorless world for this type of photography.  For a mirrorless walking around wildlife rig, the R5/R6 with 100-500 or the a9II/a1 with 200-600 are the most versatile options out there.
 

by Bill Chambers on Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:20 pm
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Thanks everyone for your comments/suggestions.

I'm going to check out several, beginning with the Nikon D500 w/ 500PF since I'm already familiar with Nikon ergonomics, but I also want to check out the sony system with the 200-600. The 1/4 turn zoom sound very appealing as does the internal zoom.

I will also check out the R5 and 100-500, Ed as I'm not familiar with it at all.
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by Doug on Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:30 am
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I'm using mirrorless for birds (Sony a7rIII). Speaking only for myself, the big advantages of mirrorless include real-time histogram and exposure preview, the option to use silent shutter for those birds that jump at the first click, and never any AF micro adjustment needed. On the latest models which I have yet to use, the bird eye AF looks very promising. The only reason I'd use a DSLR is the Nikon 300mm and 500mm PF lenses.
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by mikeojohnson on Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:12 am
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Hi Bill,
If you want new and also stay within your budget, Canon R6, RF100-500 and RF TC.

If you want more MP's swap the R6 to an R5.

I shoot Sony. If you want used and also stay within your budget, Sony A9 or preferably A9ii with 200-600 as previously mentioned.

Good luck,
Mike
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by Primus on Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:39 pm
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I have another suggestion.

I moved from Canon to Sony many years ago but for a long time there was no big lens available. Thus for over two years I traveled only with an a9 and the 100-400G from Sony. I also added the 1.4x TC as needed. It was an excellent combination, lightweight, not too expensive either. I shot birds, mammals and all kinds of wildlife plus landscapes too. Super sharp and IMHO the best of all the brands of this range.

Since then I have also used the 600 f4, 200-600, 400 2.8, and various mid-zooms.

The a9 with the 200-600 is an alternative, but by no means is it light or small. It is much bigger than the 100-400 and though very sharp, is one stop slower. That makes a big difference at times.

Pradeep
 

by Ed Cordes on Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:45 pm
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I have been using a Canon R5 since it came out and absolutely love it. The AF is super. I really like the exposure simulation in the viewfinder - I can instantly adjust the EV and see what the result will be. This has saved a lot of images for me. Regarding battery life, I carry a spare, but have yet to need it in an average shooting day. The 45 MP is outstanding and yes, it is lighter weight. than my 5D4 and the 7D2 .
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