Olympus Bird Detect Autofocus

https://www.olympusamerica.com/corporate/corp_presscenter_headline.asp?pressNo=3244

https://petapixel.com/2020/11/17/olympus-adds-bird-detection-af-and-raw-video-support-to-e-m1x/

https://www.dpreview.com/videos/1679070864/dpreview-tv-does-bird-detect-af-make-the-olympus-e-m1x-a-crazy-bird-finding-machine

Joe

I had a EM1X but sold it and went to Sony but I bought a new one a couple of weeks ago along with a Oly 100/400 as I really like the EM1X I find that Bird AI is unreliable it does work well at times but many times it just jumps about or misses focus even in a clear sky .

If anyone is buying it just for this I would say try it first .

Rob.

Lensmaster wrote:I had a EM1X but sold it and went to Sony but I bought a new one a couple of weeks ago along with a Oly 100/400 as I really like the EM1X I find that Bird AI is unreliable it does work well at times but many times it just jumps about or misses focus even in a clear sky .

If anyone is buying it just for this I would say try it first .

Rob.

Rob,
I read a review that said Bird AI is much more reliable on perched birds.  The only reason that I can see to use Bird AI for perched birds is for pro capture in the low mode so that the camera is focusing between each shot and continues tracking the bird after it leaves the perch.  If indeed the Bird AI will continue tracking a bird during and after it leaves the perch, then I could see Oly's Bird AI as a bit of a game changer.  Curious if you have tried pro capture low mode using Bird AI on perched birds?  It is also my understanding that the pro capture low mode does not work when using third party lenses.    

I had a chance to use Bird AI a couple of days ago in good light. I find for birds in flight I get about the same results as before. Perched birds it works OK, but I find the lag from identifying the bird and then switching to the head a little slow and I'm sure I'd miss shots. Where I find it very useful is when getting low shots using the flip out screen. I haven't used pro capture with it yet.

merlinator wrote:I had a chance to use Bird AI a couple of days ago in good light.  I find for birds in flight I get about the same results as before.  Perched birds it works OK, but I find the lag from identifying the bird and then switching to the head a little slow and I'm sure I'd miss shots.  Where I find it very useful is when getting low shots using the flip out screen.  I haven't used pro capture with it yet.

Merlinator, If you're new to the camera, the menu and operating manual, at least for me, is not obvious.  A couple of things that I have learned, in high rate, the camera does not focus between shots.  Hence, it is unusable for bif.  If you're focusing on a specific point and the focus point will not change, you can get up to 60 fps--very useful.  If you have not used pro capture, it's probably the camera's best feature.  It allows you to get images that you probably could not get with any other camera, unless it also has pro capture.  Using silent mode will give you slightly sharper images. Good luck.   

Gene Gwin wrote:

merlinator wrote:I had a chance to use Bird AI a couple of days ago in good light.  I find for birds in flight I get about the same results as before.  Perched birds it works OK, but I find the lag from identifying the bird and then switching to the head a little slow and I'm sure I'd miss shots.  Where I find it very useful is when getting low shots using the flip out screen.  I haven't used pro capture with it yet.

Merlinator, If you're new to the camera, the menu and operating manual, at least for me, is not obvious.  A couple of things that I have learned, in high rate, the camera does not focus between shots.  Hence, it is unusable for bif.  If you're focusing on a specific point and the focus point will not change, you can get up to 60 fps--very useful.  If you have not used pro capture, it's probably the camera's best feature.  It allows you to get images that you probably could not get with any other camera, unless it also has pro capture.  Using silent mode will give you slightly sharper images. Good luck.   

Not sure what you referred to when you said in high rate the camera did not focus between shots. In pro capture, the focus does not change and it's like that since day one per Olympus. Without pro capture, what people have been doing is pre-focus manually at a certain point, press the shutter button before the action starts and hope for the best. Actually it's no difference than what pro capture is doing for you.

Personally, I don't see bird detect AF is important. I know what a bird looks like and I can put the focus point on the bird myself and I've been doing that for quite a while pretty successfully I'd like to think. Where I want to see improvement is AF tracking and I can take care of the rest.

Gene Gwin wrote:

merlinator wrote:I had a chance to use Bird AI a couple of days ago in good light.  I find for birds in flight I get about the same results as before.  Perched birds it works OK, but I find the lag from identifying the bird and then switching to the head a little slow and I'm sure I'd miss shots.  Where I find it very useful is when getting low shots using the flip out screen.  I haven't used pro capture with it yet.

Merlinator, If you're new to the camera, the menu and operating manual, at least for me, is not obvious.  A couple of things that I have learned, in high rate, the camera does not focus between shots.  Hence, it is unusable for bif.  If you're focusing on a specific point and the focus point will not change, you can get up to 60 fps--very useful.  If you have not used pro capture, it's probably the camera's best feature.  It allows you to get images that you probably could not get with any other camera, unless it also has pro capture.  Using silent mode will give you slightly sharper images. Good luck.   

Thanks Gene, I have used pro capture to good effect before the firmware update.  However I have not used 60 fps yet.  I do use silent mode unless doing BIF where I use the mechanical shutter.  

merlinator wrote:

Gene Gwin wrote:

merlinator wrote:I had a chance to use Bird AI a couple of days ago in good light.  I find for birds in flight I get about the same results as before.  Perched birds it works OK, but I find the lag from identifying the bird and then switching to the head a little slow and I'm sure I'd miss shots.  Where I find it very useful is when getting low shots using the flip out screen.  I haven't used pro capture with it yet.

Merlinator, If you're new to the camera, the menu and operating manual, at least for me, is not obvious.  A couple of things that I have learned, in high rate, the camera does not focus between shots.  Hence, it is unusable for bif.  If you're focusing on a specific point and the focus point will not change, you can get up to 60 fps--very useful.  If you have not used pro capture, it's probably the camera's best feature.  It allows you to get images that you probably could not get with any other camera, unless it also has pro capture.  Using silent mode will give you slightly sharper images. Good luck.   

Thanks Gene, I have used pro capture to good effect before the firmware update.  However I have not used 60 fps yet.  I do use silent mode unless doing BIF where I use the mechanical shutter.  

Merlinator, The operating manual says that images will be sharper when using the silent mode.  However, it is hard to know how many shots you have taken.  Is there a reason you use the mechanical shutter for bif?

Gene Gwin wrote:

Lensmaster wrote:I had a EM1X but sold it and went to Sony but I bought a new one a couple of weeks ago along with a Oly 100/400 as I really like the EM1X I find that Bird AI is unreliable it does work well at times but many times it just jumps about or misses focus even in a clear sky .

If anyone is buying it just for this I would say try it first .

Rob.

Rob,
I read a review that said Bird AI is much more reliable on perched birds.  The only reason that I can see to use Bird AI for perched birds is for pro capture in the low mode so that the camera is focusing between each shot and continues tracking the bird after it leaves the perch.  If indeed the Bird AI will continue tracking a bird during and after it leaves the perch, then I could see Oly's Bird AI as a bit of a game changer.  Curious if you have tried pro capture low mode using Bird AI on perched birds?  It is also my understanding that the pro capture low mode does not work when using third party lenses.    

I have not tried Pro capture with Bird AI but always use Electronic Low so it still focuses between frames but I'm set to 15fps it can be good on perched birds but if it gets confused the split second wait while it sorts it's self out can seem ages basically you don't feel in control .

I'm in the UK and birds are very shy generally so that split second could make you miss the shot.

Rob.  

regarding Pro capture it can get you shots you can't get say just as a bird takes off from a branch full wings stretched it will get it

However if you are holding a M4/3 camera and holding a button down you will reach a point where you just can't hold it any longer so it can catch you out too i.e you have to lower the camera then the bird does indeed take off if your still set on pro capture it's too late then say another bird fly's passed pro cap might not be the best setting for this shot.

A button dedicated to pro cap may be a work around I've not really looked into it to be honest.

Rob.

Lensmaster wrote:

Gene Gwin wrote:

Lensmaster wrote:I had a EM1X but sold it and went to Sony but I bought a new one a couple of weeks ago along with a Oly 100/400 as I really like the EM1X I find that Bird AI is unreliable it does work well at times but many times it just jumps about or misses focus even in a clear sky .

If anyone is buying it just for this I would say try it first .

Rob.

Rob,
I read a review that said Bird AI is much more reliable on perched birds.  The only reason that I can see to use Bird AI for perched birds is for pro capture in the low mode so that the camera is focusing between each shot and continues tracking the bird after it leaves the perch.  If indeed the Bird AI will continue tracking a bird during and after it leaves the perch, then I could see Oly's Bird AI as a bit of a game changer.  Curious if you have tried pro capture low mode using Bird AI on perched birds?  It is also my understanding that the pro capture low mode does not work when using third party lenses.    

I have not tried Pro capture with Bird AI but always use Electronic Low so it still focuses between frames but I'm set to 15fps it can be good on perched birds but if it gets confused the split second wait while it sorts it's self out can seem ages basically you don't feel in control .

I'm in the UK and birds are very shy generally so that split second could make you miss the shot.

Rob.  

Rob, My Olympus camera and lens came off the tripod somehow and the connection between the lens and the camera broke.  I still need to send the lens in for repair.  When I get it back, I'll see if bird tracking mode will keep focus when the bird leaves a perch in pro capture low and let you know.  My feeling is that it will not.  I agree with DChan that for photographing birds in flight a good autofocus system is more important.  I would think that people who do not photograph birds in flight much or are new to photographing birds in flight, that a bird tracking system would help them.  

Question:  You said, "but if it gets confused the split second wait while it sorts it's self out can seem ages basically you don't feel in control."  Are you talking about only the pro capture mode?  or, If you were using pro capture and bird tracking mode?  For me, the pro capture mode has never hesitated.  I push the shutter release and the pro capture mode works.  One other thing you might not know.  The menu allows you to select how many frames you want the camera to write to the card when you press the shutter release, from one to thirty.  I have 18 selected just in case I'm slow pushing the camera shutter.

DChan, You asked/said, "Not sure what you referred to when you said in high rate the camera did not focus between shots. In pro capture, the focus does not change and it's like that since day one per Olympus." That is not correct now, maybe it was in the past? On the OM-D E-M1X camera, if you select the high rate mode--once you select focus, the camera does not refocus until you release the shutter release and refocus on something else. The low rate mode allows you to select the CAF option so the camera refocuses between each shot. This is the same for the pro capture mode, high rate will not refocus until you release the shutter release and focus on something else and the pro capture low mode uses CAF so the camera will refocus between each shot. I agree with you that a superior autofocus is more important than bird tracking. The people that I know who has the new Canon mirrorless that has bird tracking, and they're very good photographers, really like it because it allows them to move the bird within the frame to select the composition that they want without reselecting another focus point.

Gene Gwin wrote:

Lensmaster wrote:

Gene Gwin wrote:

Lensmaster wrote:I had a EM1X but sold it and went to Sony but I bought a new one a couple of weeks ago along with a Oly 100/400 as I really like the EM1X I find that Bird AI is unreliable it does work well at times but many times it just jumps about or misses focus even in a clear sky .

If anyone is buying it just for this I would say try it first .

Rob.

Rob,
I read a review that said Bird AI is much more reliable on perched birds.  The only reason that I can see to use Bird AI for perched birds is for pro capture in the low mode so that the camera is focusing between each shot and continues tracking the bird after it leaves the perch.  If indeed the Bird AI will continue tracking a bird during and after it leaves the perch, then I could see Oly's Bird AI as a bit of a game changer.  Curious if you have tried pro capture low mode using Bird AI on perched birds?  It is also my understanding that the pro capture low mode does not work when using third party lenses.    

I have not tried Pro capture with Bird AI but always use Electronic Low so it still focuses between frames but I'm set to 15fps it can be good on perched birds but if it gets confused the split second wait while it sorts it's self out can seem ages basically you don't feel in control .

I'm in the UK and birds are very shy generally so that split second could make you miss the shot.

Rob.  

Rob, My Olympus camera and lens came off the tripod somehow and the connection between the lens and the camera broke.  I still need to send the lens in for repair.  When I get it back, I'll see if bird tracking mode will keep focus when the bird leaves a perch in pro capture low and let you know.  My feeling is that it will not.  I agree with DChan that for photographing birds in flight a good autofocus system is more important.  I would think that people who do not photograph birds in flight much or are new to photographing birds in flight, that a bird tracking system would help them.  

Question:  You said, "but if it gets confused the split second wait while it sorts it's self out can seem ages basically you don't feel in control."  Are you talking about only the pro capture mode?  or, If you were using pro capture and bird tracking mode?  For me, the pro capture mode has never hesitated.  I push the shutter release and the pro capture mode works.  One other thing you might not know.  The menu allows you to select how many frames you want the camera to write to the card when you press the shutter release, from one to thirty.  I have 18 selected just in case I'm slow pushing the camera shutter.

Yes i'm sure it will help people new to birding and may well seem like magic .

No I was not on pro cap just bird tracking AI yes I know you can set the frame rate agree pro cap is instant once you press the shutter if you saw it you got it

As Gene says superior autofocus is more important than bird tracking although my A9mkII does both extremely well yet it does not have Bird detect Canon do seem to have it just about sorted .
If the next A9 has it then I would think it will be even better I do like the EM1X I just hoped it would have been better with the new Bird AF the problem is it keeps losing focus between a burst of shots regardless of what AF you have set or tracking sensitivity .

by the way tracking sensitivity has no effect if your on Bird AI .

Rob.

Lensmaster wrote:As Gene says superior autofocus is more important than bird tracking ...

Autofocus tracking to me is also part of autofocus so what you said seems weird to me. I don't ever have a camera that can auto-focus tracking well but not able to autofocus on a stationary subject. Autofocus tracking to me is focus stay on the subject all the time while the subject moves, not just a box on your screen moving with the subject but focus is actually off. Since the birds and animals I photograph do move, I definitely would like to have a camera that autofocus tracking well in addition to being able to get a focus lock on the subject fast and accurate time after time. So to me a camera which is good at the latter but not the former is not good enough for me and likely most people who photograph birds I'd say.

Gene Gwin wrote:DChan, You asked/said, "Not sure what you referred to when you said in high rate the camera did not focus between shots. In pro capture, the focus does not change and it's like that since day one per Olympus."  That is not correct now, maybe it was in the past?  On the OM-D E-M1X camera, if you select the high rate mode--once you select focus, the camera does not refocus until you release the shutter release and refocus on something else.  The low rate mode allows you to select the CAF option so the camera refocuses between each shot..  ...

Thanks for clarifying, Gene! I never used the lower rate option so likely didn't pay much attention to that. Have to try shooting small bird take-off to see if that helps.

DChan wrote:

Gene Gwin wrote:DChan, You asked/said, "Not sure what you referred to when you said in high rate the camera did not focus between shots. In pro capture, the focus does not change and it's like that since day one per Olympus."  That is not correct now, maybe it was in the past?  On the OM-D E-M1X camera, if you select the high rate mode--once you select focus, the camera does not refocus until you release the shutter release and refocus on something else.  The low rate mode allows you to select the CAF option so the camera refocuses between each shot..  ...

Thanks for clarifying, Gene! I never used the lower rate option so likely didn't pay much attention to that. Have to try shooting small bird take-off to see if that helps.

DChan, I haven't tried it yet with the bird tracking option.  If the bird tracking option does not work, then I think you will be better off using the high option because the focus cannot keep up with a small, fast moving bird leaving the perch.  I'll PM you with a workaround that I figured out.

Glad you got it sorted out.  Pro Capture Low with Bird Ai will follow the bird off the perch, as long as the green square is on the bird it will go with it.

Yes Bird Ai works but NOT for all situations.  Sometimes it is C-AF that works.  Just need to practice and know when to use what mode for best results I'm still slowly understanding Bird Ai limitations.

Perhaps this being the first go at it for Olympus it can be tweaked in future firmware updates.


Don't know if is any help for you, Joe McDonald has just put out a eBook that is for the Olympus Mk3 and M1x cameras.  I have bought it and it has some good stuff in it. It's over 160 pages and delves into the most important features of the cameras at a cost of about $20. Things are explained in detail with pictures of the menus at each step so you know exactly how he set things up.

The Olympus OM-D E-Mark III and M1X Menu The Guide for Wildlife and Nature Photographers

Olympus OM-D E-Mark III, Olympus OM-D E-M1X, camera manuals, camera menus, how-to, teaching, instruction, ProCapture, Focus Bracket, Live Composite, Live View Boost, MF Assist, Focus Point selection, Bird Tracking, creating favorites

See more details here:
https://mcdonaldwildlife.e-junkie.com/p ... JYwnhUD45s
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PV Hiker wrote:Glad you got it sorted out.  Pro Capture Low with Bird Ai will follow the bird off the perch, as long as the green square is on the bird it will go with it.

Yes Bird Ai works but NOT for all situations.  Sometimes it is C-AF that works.  Just need to practice and know when to use what mode for best results I'm still slowly understanding Bird Ai limitations.

Perhaps this being the first go at it for Olympus it can be tweaked in future firmware updates.


Don't know if is any help for you, Joe McDonald has just put out a eBook that is for the Olympus Mk3 and M1x cameras.  I have bought it and it has some good stuff in it. It's over 160 pages and delves into the most important features of the cameras at a cost of about $20. Things are explained in detail with pictures of the menus at each step so you know exactly how he set things up.

The Olympus OM-D E-Mark III and M1X Menu The Guide for Wildlife and Nature Photographers

Olympus OM-D E-Mark III, Olympus OM-D E-M1X, camera manuals, camera menus, how-to, teaching, instruction, ProCapture, Focus Bracket, Live Composite, Live View Boost, MF Assist, Focus Point selection, Bird Tracking, creating favorites

See more details here:
https://mcdonaldwildlife.e-junkie.com/p ... JYwnhUD45s

PV--Are you saying that you have personally used pro capture low when using Bird AI and it actually maintained focus when a bird left the perch and the images were sharp?  My lens is busted so I have not been able to test it out.  Thanks for letting me know.  

Sorry to hear you have a busted lens.  Yes I have used it and here is a GBH taking off using the C-AF with Bird Ai,  even though I could have used C-AF and could have tracked it but Bird AI followed it. Found it and threw some sliders to post for you.   See if I can post the image.....
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