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by SantaFeJoe on Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:13 am
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An indication of the wave of the future and what photographers see, but manufacturers don’t seem to:

https://www.thephoblographer.com/2019/09/23/are-we-done-with-clickbait-stories-about-the-dslr-being-dead-yet/

Joe
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by E.J. Peiker on Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:09 pm
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Well two manufacturers are still a bit reluctant to kill their DSLRs but they are slowly getting it.  Other than the very niche Pentax market which is non-existent in the USA, everyone else is pretty much 100% mirrorless now.  While we will get a D6 and maybe a D860 from Nikon and Canon will get a 1Dx Mk III and just got a 90D, I doubt there will be any others.  I personally don't think a D860 makes any sense at all, just put the 61mp and all of the pro features of a D860 camera in a z8.  Canon needs to consolidate their mounts, they now have 4 (R, EF, EFS, EFM) but other than that, they seem to be more onboard, at least in public statements in killing off DSLRs than Nikon is.  I also think that another EOS 5D is a fools errand and they should just come out with a professional EOS R rather than the low and mid range mirrorless cameras they have to go with their exceptional high end mirroless lenses.  Even the EOS 90D works better when used in Live View than it does in OVF view - even the LV AF is petter than their traditional AF.

The DSLR is clearly not dead and I still hear everyday from photographers on a switch to mirrorless that it isn't quite ready yet and they are waiting for it to mature.  What they really mean is that they really aren't quite ready for change yet or simply do not know what they are talking about because, with the exception of a very few use cases, there is absolutely no point in a DSLR anymore and most mirrorless cameras are on par or well ahead of most DSLRs.
 

by Mike in O on Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:16 pm
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The one place that dslr's are better (probably soon to change) is low light shooting. My 99II will focus at -4 ev while Sony mirrorless can't come close. I believe it is the same for other manufacturers. Allowing focus wide open and specialized f2.8 points are still the realm of dslr's.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:18 pm
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Mike in O wrote:The one place that dslr's are better (probably soon to change) is low light shooting.  My 99II will focus at -4 ev while Sony mirrorless can't come close.  I believe it is the same for other manufacturers.  Allowing focus wide open and specialized f2.8 points are still the realm of dslr's.
Canon claims -5 Ev on their EOS R - it's all meaningless unless you specify which lens....
 

by jeff Parker on Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:13 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
The DSLR is clearly not dead and I still hear everyday from photographers on a switch to mirrorless that it isn't quite ready yet and they are waiting for it to mature.  What they really mean is that they really aren't quite ready for change yet or simply do not know what they are talking about because, with the exception of a very few use cases, there is absolutely no point in a DSLR anymore and most mirrorless cameras are on par or well ahead of most DSLRs.


Is mirrorless there now for bird in flight type action?  I've been holding out due to investment in lenses (Canon 600mm f/4) and the perception that the A/F and shutter lag don't hold up for action photography.  Also have clients who shoot mirrorless that use 4 batteries in a day where I can shoot a couple of days on 1 battery.
 

by DChan on Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:51 pm
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IMO, if your DSLRs are serving you well, there's no reason to switch to mirrorless now just because mirrorless is available now or it's the future other than may be you're afraid nobody would be buying your DSLR system later on.

FYI, I also shoot Olympus. Yes, my Olympus can shoot BIF.
 

by jeff Parker on Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:15 pm
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I had a couple in Ecuador who had recently switched to Olympus. Other than the tremendous weight savings they were not happy with the performance.
 

by DChan on Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:23 pm
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jeff Parker wrote:I had a couple in Ecuador who had recently switched to Olympus.  Other than the tremendous weight savings they were not happy with the performance.



Go get the Sony then. I'm not here to sell you the Olympus.
 

by Porsche917 on Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:18 pm
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Mike in O wrote:The one place that dslr's are better (probably soon to change) is low light shooting.  My 99II will focus at -4 ev while Sony mirrorless can't come close.  I believe it is the same for other manufacturers.  Allowing focus wide open and specialized f2.8 points are still the realm of dslr's.


Sony appears to have several high quality full-frame lenses with F2.8 maximum apertures — standard zoom (24-70mm); telephoto zoom (70-200mm); super telephoto (400mm). 

Best Regards, 

Roman  :D
 

by Primus on Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:58 am
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I've been a long term Sony user now and as of 2017 sold off all my Canon gear. It was difficult in the beginning especially for wildlife since the only long lens I had was the 70-200 2.8GM but I managed until the 100-400 GM came out. In my hands the Canon version with an adapter just did not work although others have had a lot more success. Now Sony has the 400 2.8 and the 600 f4, both are said to be amazing.


Is mirrorless there now for bird in flight type action?  I've been holding out due to investment in lenses (Canon 600mm f/4) and the perception that the A/F and shutter lag don't hold up for action photography.  Also have clients who shoot mirrorless that use 4 batteries in a day where I can shoot a couple of days on 1 battery.
All I can say is that I have never been able to shoot BIF before, somehow couldn't get the Canon 1DX2 to get a lock on the bird. Now, it is super easy. I just keep the AF mode as 'wide' and the camera just picks up the bird and stays on it. Even with a busy background, the AF capability is excellent. I was shooting on the Chobe river last year with the 100-400 on my a9 (often with a 1.4X TC) and I would sometimes stand at the bow of the big houseboat looking out for birds as we moved along. The boat was moving fast and as it neared a cormorant or darter or other bird on the banks, the animal would leap out of the water and fly. I simply pointed the camera in that direction and sure enough, was able to capture a sharp image of the bird in flight, even with busy reeds and bushes in the background. On another day there were these bee-eaters that were flying all around us. This time we were on a pontoon boat which  had a canopy and the birds would suddenly fly over it and appear on my side. The hardest BIF shot IMHO is when a small bird is flying directly overhead, no more than 20 ft from you. Again, simply pointing the camera at the bird, it caught on instantly.

Never been happier. I have not used the big 600 in the field yet, but going by the reports it should be even better than the 100-400.

Battery life on the a9 is not bad, you can get over 2000 shots easily, but a lot depends upon how you use it. If you put the camera on AFC, electronic shutter and just keep the button pressed, you can get 4000 or more shots (I was stupid enough to try that once) from one battery.

Pradeep
 

by Dan Kearl on Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:25 am
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If Mirrorless is so good and the future its now, how come I never see BIF images from them?
Just peruse this site or others and you do not see good BIF shots done with mirrorless cameras...
Where are they?
 

by DChan on Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:22 pm
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Dan Kearl wrote:If Mirrorless is so good and the future its now, how come I never see BIF images from them?
Just peruse this site or others and you do not see good BIF shots done with mirrorless cameras...
Where are they?
Define "good".
... The hardest BIF shot IMHO is when a small bird is flying directly overhead, no more than 20 ft from you. Again, simply pointing the camera at the bird, it caught on instantly.
Let's hope Pradeep is kind enough to post that shot for us to see :D
 

by SantaFeJoe on Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:40 pm
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Dan Kearl wrote:If Mirrorless is so good and the future its now, how come I never see BIF images from them?
Just peruse this site or others and you do not see good BIF shots done with mirrorless cameras...
Where are they?
Posts are not necessarily a good indicator of ability. Just look for BIF images from a Nikon D5 and you won’t find many. Same for others. Now, that’s not to say mirrorless are great at BIF, but just that posts here are not a good indicator.

Joe
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by Gary Irwin on Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:25 pm
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Dan Kearl wrote:If Mirrorless is so good and the future its now, how come I never see BIF images from them?
Just peruse this site or others and you do not see good BIF shots done with mirrorless cameras...
Where are they?
I think the evidence is there...I've seen some BIF shots from the Sony A9 that IMO no DSLR could ever capture. Look for a guy named "Arbitrage" over on the FM Sony forum. Notwithstanding the new Canon 1DXIII and Nikon D6, it's clear to me that the future belongs to mirrorless and computational photography. In terms of the latter just consider what the iPhone 11 can do for both stills and video. In ten years you won't recognize the photography market. I'm sure DSLRs will still be around, but nobody will be talking about them. 
Gary Likes Nature.
 

by DChan on Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:45 pm
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Dan Kearl wrote:If Mirrorless is so good and the future its now, how come I never see BIF images from them?
Just peruse this site or others and you do not see good BIF shots done with mirrorless cameras...
Where are they?
Not good BIF but BIF nonetheless (Olympus EM 1 Mk II + 40-150 f2.8 handheld):
Image

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image



Yes, it can be done :-)
 

by Dan Kearl on Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:38 pm
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The flight shots look nice... I am not trying to be argumentative and the future is whatever the camera
makers make and that will be mirrorless.
I am just saying that right now I see few good BIF shots posted anywhere I look and the guys
shooting the new Sony stuff where I shoot locally are not getting the same flight shots as
guys shooting Nikons......
Anecdotal I know, I just think the future is not quite Now...
 

by Dan Kearl on Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:22 pm
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I also should say, that when I see a mirrorless camera I think can
take BIF photos better than the Nikon DSLR camera I have now I will be
all over it!
I assume Nikon's present AF system, which I think most think is the best right now,
will be on their mirrorless camera's in even better form soon.
If we can use all our expensive glass, no reason not to switch.
It just does not have to be right now or in the near future for most.
 

by Primus on Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:35 am
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Dan Kearl wrote:If Mirrorless is so good and the future its now, how come I never see BIF images from them?
Just peruse this site or others and you do not see good BIF shots done with mirrorless cameras...
Where are they?
Dan, there are plenty of images if you look for them. As mentioned already, FM forums is a good place to visit. 

Here is a link for images taken with the Sony 600mm f4 lens. Many of them are with a TC on top of the lens. Look for the ones in the middle of the page by Joshua Ong (AGeoJo), where he has posted images of a belted Kingfisher taken with an a7r4 (not even the best of the Sony mirrorless in terms of AF), with a 600mm plus 1.4X TC.

There are plenty more from him, especially interesting are those of a burrowing owl with June bugs. Other photographers worth checking out on the same thread (or you can look for the thread dedicated to the a9) with plenty of BIF images are:

Ke3vg
Arbitrage (as mentioned)
ImageMaster

You just have to look around.

Hope this helps.

Pradeep
 

by SantaFeJoe on Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:06 am
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This review has some BIF images:

https://www.thephoblographer.com/2019/1 ... r-iv-body/

And there is more about the a9 ll in the text.

Also, Google “mirrorless bird in flight images” and you’ll see many images, albeit mixed with some other images.

Joe
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by signgrap on Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:10 pm
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Dan you should bear in mind that the ability to auto focus BIF (action AF) with a mirrorless camera is a very recent capability that is only a year or two old. In addition the long lenses needed for BIF are also are recent additions, at least for Sony. Olympus has had long lenses for a while but have lacked the fast AF needed for BIF. This the reason you see a small percentage of BIF images made with mirrorless cameras.
Then consider that people who own Canon and Nikon pro DSLR cameras capable of photographing BIF have made huge investments in long lenses for their cameras. In today's quickly changing camera market selling used lenses is an ify process where most people get less for used lenses than people did a decade ago, when the axiom was lenses were an investment and you'd get most of your money back when selling them. Canon and Nikon are making a new version of their pro DSLR cameras for the 2020 Olympics. But the word is that this will be the last pro DSLR that Canon and Nikon will make. All future pro sports/action cameras after this last DSLR cameras will be mirrorless. Sports photographers are the people who drive the pro action camera market and they want to get the best ROI out of the equipment they own. So they will stay with the camera they know and the lenses they currently own till after the 2020 Olympics. It will be interesting to see if many will jump ship from their current cameras to Sony who at the moment has a measurable lead in the mirrorless market.
Dick Ludwig
 

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