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by WJaekel on Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:54 am
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Neilyb wrote:Makes you realize that all the best features in the world are nothing if the camera does not work or is not in your hand. Despite Canon having the lesser sensor tech, crippled video features and what not, I do value their robustness and of course three day turnaround on repairs (or a loaner) when anything happens.

Was it not Matt Granger, who waxed lyrical about Sony cameras for so long, eventually went back to Nikon due to the service issues (or the chance of future issues)?
Exactly. I often said it in past discussions: Reliability and quality of the service are the most ignored or overviewed aspects in all the talks of gear and camera features. And if they personally know you at the service, it's even a bonus. That's one of the main reasons why I'm still staying with Canon despite they're behind in sensor tech. However, the CPS has never disappointed me over more than 3 decades. Of course, a mistake or misunderstanding could happen everywhere. But then it's important how they handle it and stay in touch with the customer. Trying aggressively to get market share by pushing new features and cameras all the time is one thing. But if the support is poor, they count less, at least for me. From several reports I've seen to date, I have no confidence in Sony in this regard, so far. They have a long way to go to compete with Nikon and Canon here, too, IMO.

Wolfgang
 

by E.J. Peiker on Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:00 am
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WJaekel wrote: Exactly. I often said it in past discussions: Reliability and quality of the service are the most ignored or overviewed aspects in all the talks of gear and camera features. And if they personally know you at the service, it's even a bonus. That's one of the main reasons why I'm still staying with Canon despite they're behind in sensor tech. However, the CPS has never disappointed me over more than 3 decades. Of course, a mistake or misunderstanding could happen everywhere. But then it's important how they handle it and stay in touch with the customer. Trying aggressively to get market share by pushing new features and cameras all the time is one thing. But if the support is poor, they count less, at least for me. From several reports I've seen to date, I have no confidence in Sony in this regard, so far. They have a long way to go to compete with Nikon and Canon here, too, IMO.

Wolfgang
I think the fundamental problem with Sony is that they are treating the photo equipment business as a consumer electronics segment where everything is disposable.  If a walkman fails, you don't get it fixed, you just get a new one.  Even TVs today, if they aren't still under warranty, who fixes a TV nowadays, you just get a new one...
 

by E.J. Peiker on Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:36 pm
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DAY 43 - about 27 hours after the call where the PCR person apologized and said she would personally see it through the repair process and a promise of a call when it was done, I received a call from the same person I talked to yesterday, that the camera was shipping via FedEx overnight.
 

by Kerry on Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:52 pm
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Hopefully this is essentially the start of a happy ending...or at least as "happy" an ending as it can be at this point, given that it's taken more than six weeks and more than $300 to effectuate what, on the surface, amounts to a minor mechanical failure. By pretty much any objective assessment this has been an epic failure on the part of the Sony repair protocol.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:14 pm
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Kerry wrote:Hopefully this is essentially the start of a happy ending...or at least as "happy" an ending as it can be at this point, given that it's taken more than six weeks and more than $300 to effectuate what, on the surface, amounts to a minor mechanical failure.  By pretty much any objective assessment this has been an epic failure on the part of the Sony repair protocol.
Additionally, integrating a mechanical spring loaded mechanical mechanism to a main circuit board in a top of the line camera makes one wonder...  Pretty sure I would have been fired if I'd even proposed such a ting in my career in the tech industry...  I'm still not sure I even comprehend that so it makes me wonder if that was factual.
 

by Kerry on Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:33 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:Additionally, integrating a mechanical spring loaded mechanical mechanism to a main circuit board in a top of the line camera makes one wonder...  Pretty sure I would have been fired if I'd even proposed such a ting in my career in the tech industry...  I'm still not sure I even comprehend that so it makes me wonder if that was factual.
I'm no engineer, but when I read the description of this design in your earlier note, the first thought that popped into my head was "why would they do that?"

I'll say, convoluted as it seems on the surface, I hope the explanation you got is true, because if it isn't this is nothing more than an attempt to massively gin up the cost of what should have been a relatively easy/inexpensive repair...and everything that conclusion implies.  None of it is good, obviously.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:00 pm
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This a7R III teardown shows that they were not lying - the two card slots are physically part of the MOBO.  Interestingly, the a7R II does not do this, there it is a separate....

https://petapixel.com/2017/12/04/teardo ... y-a7r-iii/
 

by Ed Okie on Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:06 pm
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EJ's ongoing Sony-repair saga: beyond unfathomable; riveting commentary particularly when it evolves at the Sony Imaging Pro membership level. It begs the pregnant question: What happens when us mere mortals attempt to have Sony camera repairs?
Sympathy extended to EJ and his predicament - but the issue looms far greater.
We live in a vastly changed world.
Difficult to grasp by the gray-haired generation (myself included). Customer service and support, whatever the subject, has virtually vanished.
We as camera buffs cling to a belief that pro-league "DSLRs" plus superb image craftsmanship remain at the forefront of interest and appreciation by everyone.
When is the last time you've received an e-mail that didn't end with the infamous footnote "sent from my iPhone." They were commenting about a well-crafted image you previously sent... their impression as viewed on a tiny screen, and possibly while driving a car.
Corporate Sony well recognizes the contradiction. (As does any brand name.) The actions applied is bottom-line influenced: which business segment is the mainstay of corporate profits?
It doesn't excuse the dire lack of customer service and support, Sony's gross arrogance in handling EJ's situation.
I said to myself: there must be a way. I spent an hour digging into Sony-related websites thinking I'd find an answer and direction for Sony camera repairs.
Cut to the chase: There is no answer. A circuitous return to the website place you started at.
Sony does offer a Professional Services website. I thought a-hah! The answer is about to unfold. No dice. "Cameras" and "DSLR's" aren't even listed! Sony's vision of Professional Services is high-end camcorders. Nary a DSLR mention.
The message is clear: Sony doesn't place our beloved cameras at the forefront of importance; they're an incidental corporate product. Even Sony Imaging Pro membership doesn't sidestep the inflicted pain.
As EJ agonized, "I have two people at Sony Imaging Pro and now their manager trying to remedy [his camera repair problem] but they are also being stonewalled by [Precision Camera Repairs] which is [in Connecticut] about 3000 miles from where the SIP folks are located."
EJ goes on to suggest, "I do feel that the Sony Imaging Pro people are trying and I also sense that they have a long history of problems with this contractor but have absolutely no say with the mothership in Japan about dealing with this problem."
More than once I've noticed an apparent disconnect between each continent side of the Pacific. It may be a cultural difference in the Far East where the CEO, Chairman of the Board, or an elder is regarded with god-like reverence; no one below that level dares speak nor question, an ingrained cultural bias. If the Chairman isn't a DSLR buff... we're out of luck! Mr. Sony obviously isn't!
Particularly striking is when searching for Sony repair locations in the USA - only two sources are listed, PhotoTech in NYC, and the poster-child of complaints: Precision Camera Repair in Connecticut.
Corporate Sony's blindness to this third-party contractor is utterly astonishing. Likewise, Sony's Pro Service Center is stonewalled when it comes to dealing with PCR! Sony does not directly own the repair business, whereas Nikon and Canon are owner-responsible.
Royce Howland enlightened, similar experiences with his Pentax camera repairs, Precision Camera is a contracted repair center for Ricoh/Pentax... and the same laundry list of complaints flow.
EJ points to another valid aspect: "I think the fundamental problem with Sony is that they are treating the photo equipment business as a consumer electronics segment where everything is disposable. If a walkman fails, you don't get it fixed, you just get a new one. Even TVs today... you just get a new one."
Wjaekel's comment on March 14 rings with the clarity of a chapel bell at midnight: "Reliability and quality of the service are the most ignored or [overlooked] aspects in all the talks of gear and camera features."
Amen.
What was I thinking when I dumped $8,000+ into a Sony a7R3, related gear plus three Zeiss Batis e-lenses? Like everyone else... I never gave a thought about service.
Likewise never inquired about Sony's infamous 400 page user manual - or the miserable menu on the camera's backside. (Confessions of an insider: after a year's ownership still haven't figured out the Sony a7R3)
Sole salvation: remind myself that whatever happens - it's far less expensive than what occurs when focus is aimed at buying sports cars!
 

by E.J. Peiker on Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:11 am
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I logged onto the Sony Imaging Pro Support website with the intention of starting a repair ticket, similar to what I have experience doing with Nikon Professional Services.  After searching for a few minutes, I was unable to find an on-line facility to do this.  I then called Sony Imaging Pro Services and the call was answered by a real human based in the USA and learned that the way to initiate SIPS level repair is by calling them or sending an email.... :o
 

by E.J. Peiker on Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:02 am
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The sad thing in all of this is that I started this whole thread with the hope and intention of chronicling a really good experience and thereby showing how far Sony has come. It turned out to be the opposite. The camera is now on a FedEx vehicle for delivery this afternoon.
 

by Ed Okie on Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:33 pm
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EJ - have you seen the photo of PCR's camera repair room, it's on their website, the building where "repair" work is done? Not exactly confidence inspiring. It doesn't appear neat and well organized, even floor cleanliness looks marginal, regular shoes worn; no one is wearing dust-prevention garments or hair shields, regular ceiling vents, desks appear cluttered.  Compare it to the same room in Germany where Leica camera work is undertaken - the Leica facility looks like a sterile room in a surgical hospital!   https://vimeo.com/6551861 (sensor cleaning around the 13:30 minute mark)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision ... a_Flag.JPG
 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... a_Flag.JPG
 

by E.J. Peiker on Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:29 pm
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I finally received the camera 45 days after shipping it for a repair that was completed in about two hours. After spending two hours setting the camera back to all of my original settings, all appears to be well.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:30 pm
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Ed Okie wrote:EJ - have you seen the photo of PCR's camera repair room, it's on their website, the building where "repair" work is done? Not exactly confidence inspiring. It doesn't appear neat and well organized, even floor cleanliness looks marginal, regular shoes worn; no one is wearing dust-prevention garments or hair shields, regular ceiling vents, desks appear cluttered.  Compare it to the same room in Germany where Leica camera work is undertaken - the Leica facility looks like a sterile room in a surgical hospital!   https://vimeo.com/6551861 (sensor cleaning around the 13:30 minute mark)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision ... a_Flag.JPG
 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... a_Flag.JPG
Yeah that's a lot different than Leica for sure.  I have been in the Zeiss shop in Germany and wore the same cleanroom attire that I wore in the semiconductor fabrication facilities that I worked in for Intel.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:01 pm
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Excerpts from the returned paperwork:

Explanation of Repairs:
Replaced main board to resolve the card slot issue
Please note replacing the main board will reset all settings

It came with a technician checklist:
Checked moving parts (button, doors, latches)
Checked hotshoe operation
Checked memory card installation and removal
Checked lens attachment/removal
Checked camera to lens communication
Performed image test - checked shutter speed and aperture control
Checked all terminals and jacks
Checked power with battery and AC adapter
Checked all internal error codes
Verified all external screws are tight and secure
Cleaned image sensor
Cleaned viewfinder
Cleaned LCD surface
Clenead camera body
Installed latest firmware
 

by Kerry on Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:55 am
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Glad to hear that you have the camera back and everything appears to be functioning as it should. I hope you never have to send anything in for repair ever again, unlikely as that is.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:16 pm
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Kerry wrote:Glad to hear that you have the camera back and everything appears to be functioning as it should.  I hope you never have to send anything in for repair ever again, unlikely as that is.
I was hoping they would install the upcoming firmware with the new AF system but they didn't :D
 

by Neilyb on Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:37 am
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Glad it is finally back E.J. :)
 

by matt7855 on Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:11 pm
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SantaFeJoe wrote:
E.J. Peiker wrote:
"Once again, apologies for your experience. I have reached out to my manager and we want to offer you as a one time accommodation for your troubles, a 50% discount on the service fees.
Pretty sad that after waiting this long, this is the best they can do! They should send you a brand new camera and NO charges!
No good business practices here.
Joe


Hey E.J.,

I have had exactly the same experience with Sony service.  I had to have the EVF replaced as it failed about the same time a year and a month after I bought it.  Asked Precision if there was any wiggle room on the warranty period said they would ask Sony, then heard nothing, 2 weeks later had to call back and check, was told they would check again, called back after another week was told it was not covered. At least Sony gave you a discount, I got nothing.  I am also a Sony pro member. I think the cost was around $500
 
Now to the other question I have on Sony cameras, mine was an A9, I was shooting in mist, so was the EVF failure due to the weather I was shooting in, and you cannot use these in the rain, or was it just a camera failure?  I don't know, but somehow I don't think I would have that issue with Nikon or Canon.

I have sent Sony camera's and lenses to Sony service for cleaning and it's been fine, but there were no questions or issues involved with that.  So I agree Sony has to improve communication or sometimes lack of service.  Sony and all camera makers need to have a software update that includes saving settings to a sd,cf xqd card as it's just a total unnecessary inconvenience for the end user not to be able to do this.

Matt
 

by E.J. Peiker on Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:47 am
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matt7855 wrote:
SantaFeJoe wrote:
E.J. Peiker wrote:
"Once again, apologies for your experience. I have reached out to my manager and we want to offer you as a one time accommodation for your troubles, a 50% discount on the service fees.
Pretty sad that after waiting this long, this is the best they can do! They should send you a brand new camera and NO charges!
No good business practices here.
Joe


Hey E.J.,

I have had exactly the same experience with Sony service.  I had to have the EVF replaced as it failed about the same time a year and a month after I bought it.  Asked Precision if there was any wiggle room on the warranty period said they would ask Sony, then heard nothing, 2 weeks later had to call back and check, was told they would check again, called back after another week was told it was not covered. At least Sony gave you a discount, I got nothing.  I am also a Sony pro member. I think the cost was around $500
 
Now to the other question I have on Sony cameras, mine was an A9, I was shooting in mist, so was the EVF failure due to the weather I was shooting in, and you cannot use these in the rain, or was it just a camera failure?  I don't know, but somehow I don't think I would have that issue with Nikon or Canon.

I have sent Sony camera's and lenses to Sony service for cleaning and it's been fine, but there were no questions or issues involved with that.  So I agree Sony has to improve communication or sometimes lack of service.  Sony and all camera makers need to have a software update that includes saving settings to a sd,cf xqd card as it's just a total unnecessary inconvenience for the end user not to be able to do this.

Matt
Interesting that they did exactly the same thing to you!  So it sounds like standard procedure by PCR to stonewall on customer requests for warranty coverage if it's just a few days after the expiration.  As for saving settings out, every other camera manufacturer already offers that, except Sony.  Fuji's is to a computer, everybody else is to a memory card.
 

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