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by WJaekel on Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:59 am
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Extensive interview of David Etchell with the top product-planning executive Mizoguchi at Canon INC:

https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2019/01/08/wheres-canon-going-with-the-eos-r-do-they-have-a-plan

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by E.J. Peiker on Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:48 am
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To boil this very lengthy interview down, here's the Cliff Notes summary:
- We thought of everything when developing the EOS R
- All our products are the greatest, especially our lens adapters
- We will continue to offer the greatest in DSLR and Mirrorless
- Every camera we make is a major sales success

ROFLOL - that's basically what it came down to regardless of what the question was. Most companies have some humility about things they could do better...

The real news out of this comes towards the very end, that Canon is planning on a low end EOS R next, not a pro level one... (which seems odd since the lenses they have introduced so far are very much towards the high end...)
 

by Mike in O on Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:00 am
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
To boil this very lengthy interview down, here's the Cliff Notes summary:
- We thought of everything when developing the EOS R
- All our products are the greatest, especially our lens adapters
- We will continue to offer the greatest in DSLR and Mirrorless
- Every camera we make is a major sales success

ROFLOL - that's basically what it came down to regardless of what the question was.  Most companies have some humility about things they could do better...

The real news out of this comes towards the very end, that Canon is planning on a low end EOS R next, not a pro level one...  (which seems odd since the lenses they have introduced so far are very much towards the high end...)


Canon owns the low end market
 

by E.J. Peiker on Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:14 am
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Mike in O wrote:
E.J. Peiker wrote:
To boil this very lengthy interview down, here's the Cliff Notes summary:
- We thought of everything when developing the EOS R
- All our products are the greatest, especially our lens adapters
- We will continue to offer the greatest in DSLR and Mirrorless
- Every camera we make is a major sales success

ROFLOL - that's basically what it came down to regardless of what the question was.  Most companies have some humility about things they could do better...

The real news out of this comes towards the very end, that Canon is planning on a low end EOS R next, not a pro level one...  (which seems odd since the lenses they have introduced so far are very much towards the high end...)


Canon owns the low end market


True but then the lenses that they put out with a consumer grade body, the EOS R, don't make a lot of sense...  Guess they'll introduce some low end lenses with the low end EOS R.  I don't understand the 28-70 f/2, the 50 f/1.2, and even the 24-105 f/4, all red ring, pro grade lenses with a middle of the road body and the next camera being a low end one.  The lenses don't match the cameras.  I don't fault them for going low end next but by introducing very high end lenses up front with no high end body, the natural inclination was to think that a high end body to go with those lenses would be next.
 

by Mike in O on Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:40 am
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
Mike in O wrote:
E.J. Peiker wrote:
To boil this very lengthy interview down, here's the Cliff Notes summary:
- We thought of everything when developing the EOS R
- All our products are the greatest, especially our lens adapters
- We will continue to offer the greatest in DSLR and Mirrorless
- Every camera we make is a major sales success

ROFLOL - that's basically what it came down to regardless of what the question was.  Most companies have some humility about things they could do better...

The real news out of this comes towards the very end, that Canon is planning on a low end EOS R next, not a pro level one...  (which seems odd since the lenses they have introduced so far are very much towards the high end...)


Canon owns the low end market


True but then the lenses that they put out with a consumer grade body, the EOS R, don't make a lot of sense...  Guess they'll introduce some low end lenses with the low end EOS R.  I don't understand the 28-70 f/2, the 50 f/1.2, and even the 24-105 f/4, all red ring, pro grade lenses with a middle of the road body and the next camera being a low end one.  The lenses don't match the cameras.  I don't fault them for going low end next but by introducing very high end lenses up front with no high end body, the natural inclination was to think that a high end body to go with those lenses would be next.

My take is they just don't have hardware and software horse power yet to be able to support those great lenses.  Until Sony introduced their front end LSI, they were in the same boat.  The new Sony sensors are being sold to 3rd party with and without the front end LSI which is the heart of what they have been able to do.  Canon will get there eventually. 
 

by E.J. Peiker on Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:49 am
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Mike in O wrote:
My take is they just don't have hardware and software horse power yet to be able to support those great lenses.  Until Sony introduced their front end LSI, they were in the same boat.  The new Sony sensors are being sold to 3rd party with and without the front end LSI which is the heart of what they have been able to do.  Canon will get there eventually. 

You may be right but that would point to a concerning lack of foresight on their part.  Times are very different now then when Sony basically created this game.  Even financially strapped Nikon has that although they probably buy it off the shelf from Sony.  By the way, Nikon has the same puzzling strategy but in reverse, high end body (Z7 - except for the AF which is just so so),  but with consumer grade lenses.

I guess in the end, all of this reveals that Canon and Nikon simply had to get something to market in the full frame mirrorless arena to stop the bleeding to Sony.  I think they have both been successful in that regard. 
 

by Neilyb on Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:38 pm
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But then I do not see the EOS R as anything but low end. Full frame low end. Sensor is 2 years or more old. Body does nothing above the 2-3 year old 5d4. Takes out dated SD cards...one only and gives me no reason to upgrade from the 5d4. For me it really is a stop gap and Canon should be putting out a faster body. How low end will they go? APS-c sensor? Which means new lenses. Which makes the current lenses slight overkill as has been mentioned.

Or maybe the lenses were the only impressive thing about the release and were needed to distract from the mediocre body.
Don't get me wrong, love my 5d4 but two years on I would expect something different.

Seems to have stopped the bleed though. For how long? :)
 

by E.J. Peiker on Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:18 pm
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The EOS R sensor is 3.5 years old and built on 7 year old semiconductor technology.
 

by Scott Fairbairn on Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:40 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
The EOS R sensor is 3.5 years old and built on 7 year old semiconductor technology.




It doesn't seem to matter for Canon. They seem to be so firmly entrenched, they basically can do whatever they want and their sales numbers don't change much. I still have a bunch of Canon glass hanging around waiting for a body that I'd like to put on them, but year after year goes by and the camera I want doesn't appear. But I guess it's just my opinion, they're the market leader after all. :x
 

by Neilyb on Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:35 am
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"For example, an 8K video capable camera is already in our EOS R-series roadmap."

Considering how long it took them to get 4k in their DSLR range I do wonder in which decade 8k is "Roadmapped" for and will it have a horrible crop factor like 1.95x to make it really useful ;) ? (Don't get me wrong, the 5Dmk4 crop is useful at times for wildlife but the choice of cropping or full frame would be nice).
 

by WJaekel on Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:19 am
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
To boil this very lengthy interview down, here's the Cliff Notes summary:
- We thought of everything when developing the EOS R
- All our products are the greatest, especially our lens adapters
- We will continue to offer the greatest in DSLR and Mirrorless
- Every camera we make is a major sales success

ROFLOL - that's basically what it came down to regardless of what the question was.  Most companies have some humility about things they could do better...

The real news out of this comes towards the very end, that Canon is planning on a low end EOS R next, not a pro level one...  (which seems odd since the lenses they have introduced so far are very much towards the high end...)

Surely, there’s a lot of marketing woodoo and word sleeves but no difference to similar interviews with the competitors I've read so far and I have yet to see any humility in the statements of Sony and Nikon. There's always a lot of inconcrete whishy-washy in that kind of interviews and none of the manufacturers gives detailed insights in their plans, of course, - with Nikon's Z-lens roadmap maybe as an exception. So apart from your conclusion of this interview just being another self-congratulation of Canon, I’d also focus on David Etchells summary that extracts a few informative aspects, too – besides the announcement of the next R being an entry level, i.e

- They confirm to release new bodies for both the DSLR and mirrorless line. So they won't abandon the development of DSLRs for the
   next future. That's good news for some customers including me, still hoping for a 7dIII, at least.

- Standard f/2.8 R-zoom lenses will be coming very soon (eg, 24-70 and 70-200mm)

- They actually have 8K video on the EOS R roadmap

- A true "pro level" EOS R body is in development. Basically that’s no surprising news, of course, but they clearly admit that the AF of the
  current R is not up to the task of subject tracking compared to the 1D X II . That's their goal for their future pro level R , though, and a
  reason it will still take some time. So it’ s not just denying things to do better in that interview

- They also acknowledged the customers’ demand for better specs such as faster continuous shooting speed, in-body image stabilization,
   better video capability including uncropped 4K and dual card slots. So again, not just ignorance

Of course, this doesn’t necessarily mean that all this will become reality in their high end body.

I agree, that the R lenses they have introduced to date pointed to a pro level body being next, though and probably are beyond the capability of the their first R. Nevertheless, I think it's better than offering lenses that are below the demands and standards of the sensor

Wolfgang
 

by WJaekel on Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:18 am
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Scott Fairbairn wrote:
E.J. Peiker wrote:
The EOS R sensor is 3.5 years old and built on 7 year old semiconductor technology.




It doesn't seem to matter for Canon. They seem to be so firmly entrenched, they basically can do whatever they want and their sales numbers don't change much........ But I guess it's just my opinion, they're the market leader after all. :x


Maybe because so many customers get to the conclusion that their offerings are not as bad as the internet bubble in the reviews (esp. at dpreview) and in the forums constantly wants them to believe so that the cameras including the system of lenses, service etc address their needs despite the ancient sensor technology. The jury is out if they all are just locked in the Canon ecosystem or too blind  to realize the overwhelming superiority of the competitors' sensor tech in the IQ of the output  :wink: . In fact, it has become the normal routine that Canon is rated down for outdated technology and lack of innovation whenever they talk about their plans or release a new product. It would  have been very surprising if the feedback to this interview had made an exception here.

Don't get me wrong, they in fact are behind in sensor tech and other points such as the tracking AF (of their DSLRs, at least) still give room for improvements i.e. compared to Nikons reliability in this department. That said, the sensor in the 5 D IV (and consequently the R) is much improved over the predecessor in the 5D 3 as for DR and lack of banding etc. But of course, you always can get better and I surely would love to have a camera, too, combining all the features,versatility and capability in just one body just as the D 850 does. But boiling it down to the sensor,  many just don't need to push the shadows by 5 or 6 stops But if you're primarily focused on FF 4K video, Sony certainly is the way to go in 2019.

Anyway, as others have commented  I currently see no reason to upgrade to the EOS R from the 5DIV. From what I've seen and personally tested, it's a good start with some promising aspects but the tracking AF and framerate isn't there for quickly moving subjects such as BIF and the IQ in fact is about the same as offered by the DSLR sibbling. So I will see what the coming pro R will offer. Nevertheless, their first R seems to be quite successful based on the sales numbers I've seen

Wolfgang
 

by E.J. Peiker on Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:03 pm
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I think this article, which I mostly agree with, fits here in light of the discussion that this thread has turned towards:
https://fstoppers.com/originals/future-bleak-why-nikon-and-canons-new-mirrorless-lenses-are-wrong-direction-328471
 

by Mike in O on Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:21 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
I think this article, which I mostly agree with, fits here in light of the discussion that this thread has turned towards:
https://fstoppers.com/originals/future-bleak-why-nikon-and-canons-new-mirrorless-lenses-are-wrong-direction-328471


How is the duo going to compete with Sony's full and expanding lens line up?  The can't out of the gate but marketing says they have to negate Sony's advantage by introducing lenses that they say that Sony can't design because of a more narrow mount.  All of this is to prove their superiority whether anyone buys these monsters or not.  You will know when Canon and Nikon feel comfortable with their offerings when they introduce some ho hum lenses. 
 

by E.J. Peiker on Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:43 pm
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Mike in O wrote:
E.J. Peiker wrote:
I think this article, which I mostly agree with, fits here in light of the discussion that this thread has turned towards:
https://fstoppers.com/originals/future-bleak-why-nikon-and-canons-new-mirrorless-lenses-are-wrong-direction-328471


How is the duo going to compete with Sony's full and expanding lens line up?  The can't out of the gate but marketing says they have to negate Sony's advantage by introducing lenses that they say that Sony can't design because of a more narrow mount.  All of this is to prove their superiority whether anyone buys these monsters or not.  You will know when Canon and Nikon feel comfortable with their offerings when they introduce some ho hum lenses. 

They already are, both are outselling Sony in the full frame mirrorless market currently but of course some of that is newness factor.  There is a very large majority of photographers that are locked into their brand no matter what.  This is why Canon continues to lead in DSLR sales despite not having a camera with a state of the art sensor since early 2008...  The legacy lens thing is also a big draw and by all accounts, Canon lenses on the EOS R and Nikon AF-S lenses on the Z far outperform other adapted lenses solutions on any body.  There is no lens that you can adapt to a Sony from Nikon or Canon that doesn't adapt with better performance on an EOS R or Nikon Z.
 

by Neilyb on Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:45 am
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
I think this article, which I mostly agree with, fits here in light of the discussion that this thread has turned towards:
https://fstoppers.com/originals/future-bleak-why-nikon-and-canons-new-mirrorless-lenses-are-wrong-direction-328471


Intesting read, and while the lenses Canon announced are of high quality their size and price do put you off buying into the system for the moment (which shows they are still protecting the DSLR market to a large extent). However, a few years down the line they will have a few more in the bag. I guess the real advantage of the Canikon systems is the seemless conversion of EF lenses (not sure how seemless though, not seen any of the tests as I won't be buying one?). 

When the Nikon 56mm 0.95 was announced I did chuckle. What better way to showcase your top mirrorless autofocus that with a high end manual focus lens :) (I guess the focus peaking will be a selling point). 
 

by SantaFeJoe on Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:41 pm
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Canons’ view of the future:

https://petapixel.com/2019/01/28/canon-sees-the-digital-camera-market-plunging-by-50-in-next-two-years/

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
 

by Kerry on Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:40 pm
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Reading that assessment, the numbers don't add up, unless one regards every interchangeable lens camera as being of the "prosumer" or "pro" variety.

The story says: "...the current global market for interchangeable lens cameras is roughly 10 million units per year..."

and

"Canon believes that the camera market will bottom out soon and that there will still be a demand for about 5 to 6 million prosumer and professional cameras when that happens."

For the 50% drop mentioned in the story to be accurate, there would have to be nothing below a prosumer camera among ILC sales.
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by SantaFeJoe on Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:29 am
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This article can be viewed as a response to the link I posted yesterday and why C&N sales are fading:

https://www.thephoblographer.com/2019/01/29/the-camera-market-is-in-rapid-decline-due-to-phones-and-poor-marketing/

This is a thread I started recently that is on a similar point of view:

https://www.naturescapes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=280037

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
 

by DChan on Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:21 am
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SantaFeJoe wrote:
This article can be viewed as a response to the link I posted yesterday and why C&N sales are fading:

https://www.thephoblographer.com/2019/01/29/the-camera-market-is-in-rapid-decline-due-to-phones-and-poor-marketing/



That's photographer's thinking. You want people to carry a phone AND a camera now??

I'd suggest let's start with the fact a photograph is a visual record, and that's how the majority of the people see it.

And how much image quality do you really need, do most of the rest of the world need, for a photograph that is to be viewed on a phone, a tablet, or a laptop??
 

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