Hummingbird multiflash Sony compatibility on tours

I'm going on a tour that will have multiflash setups available for hummingbird photography.  I am aware they use Phottix triggers/receivers for Canon/Nikon (I don't know the exact model of receivers).  I'd like to bring a Sony a7riii/100-400 (in addition to Canon equipment).  First of all, is the lag on the Sony camera's shutter acceptable for this use?  And, if so, what trigger would be most appropriate in order to be compatible with the receivers they will have set up?  I am aware of the myriad of products available and their lack of intraoperability as well as minimal Sony compatibility so I'm asking if anyone might have experience with this issue.

I've been wondering the same due to the completely different flash interface that Sony uses! I am wondering if you need to bring your own Photox trigger to mount in your hot shoe but somebody like Greg Basco should know.

Shutter lag shouldn't be a problem, it isn't any more than most DSLR's - most people confuse the mirror moving on a DSLR which happens BEFORE the shutter opens and makes it seem like it is faster but in reality it is not. In fact in many cases it is faster on mirrorless cameras, especially after the first shot since some mirrorless cameras can shoot 20FPS.

Thanks for the quick response.  I'm ready to get a Phottix trigger but I'm not sure of which one would be compatible (their TTL Odin II for Sony seems like overkill).  The Aeres II is supposed to be compatible with Sony's multi-interface shoe and "other" Phottix products as well as being less expensive.  Unfortunately the Phottix website has multiple grammatical errors and I am suspicious that there are factual errors too.

You need to contact your tour leader on this.  The issue is "what model Phottix trigger are you using to fire the flash units."  Then inform him that you will be using your Sony A7 and ask him if he has an appropriate Phottix trigger.  If not you will need to purchase the appropriate model trigger that is specifically for the Sony A7 AND (repeat AND) for the flash triggers he is using --- assuming that one is made/available.**

As E.J. says, shutter lag and the fact that you are using a mirrorless camera doesn't enter into the equation.  All you need to make sure of is that your flash sync speed on your camera is not set to exceed that of the flash trigger (generally 1/200 or 1/250, though some will shoot at 1/320 or faster).

Your tour leader will tell you at some point how many burst or fast sequence shots you can fire without burning up the xenon tubes in the remote flash units.  In low power manual mode (1/32 or 1/64 power) with my ancient Nikon SB26 flashes I can generally run a burst of 10-15 shots  at 9/10 frames a second, with about 30 seconds or a minute between sequences.

** The only way around this issue that I am aware of is depends on the Sony A7 configuration.  If it has a flash PC connection point you can connect a PC cord from the camera to any of the Phottix triggers (at least the ones I have seen) to fire the flashes in manual mode.  You won't be able to shoot in TTL doing this.  If the Sony A7 does NOT have a PC connection you can get a little VELLO unit that fits into the Sony hotshoe and has both a PC connection and a pass-though flash shoe (B and H or Adorama normally have them in stock).

Doesn't Sony require a mechanical shutter to fire flashes and is limited to 5fps? I am not sure if that comes into the equation.

Mike in O wrote:Doesn't Sony require a mechanical shutter to fire flashes and is limited to 5fps?  I am not sure if that comes into the equation.

Flash works fine even in EFC mode - probably won't work in fully electronic shutter mode though as that would probably require a global shutter.

neubigod wrote:I'm going on a tour that will have multiflash setups available for hummingbird photography.  I am aware they use Phottix triggers/receivers for Canon/Nikon (I don't know the exact model of receivers).  I'd like to bring a Sony a7riii/100-400 (in addition to Canon equipment).  First of all, is the lag on the Sony camera's shutter acceptable for this use?  And, if so, what trigger would be most appropriate in order to be compatible with the receivers they will have set up?  I am aware of the myriad of products available and their lack of intraoperability as well as minimal Sony compatibility so I'm asking if anyone might have experience with this issue.

I've used Phottix transmitters for multi-flash setups with no problem with Sony cameras on my workshops in Costa Rica and Ecuador last year as a number of people are using the Sony a7R III. It was an issue a few years ago when Sony had an inverse hotshoe so it was physically impossible to mount a normal flash or transmitter but that's not the case now. 

In sum, there will be no issues with firing or with lag time. I would set the camera in mechanical shutter to make sure you can use 1/200th shutter speed at multi-flash setups. Will you by chance be with Greg Downing and me in Costa Rica in a few weeks?

By the way, a previous poster mentioned frames per second but that's actually not an issue as you'll be shooting single shot in a multiple-flash setup anyway. The flashes often recycle quickly enough to shoot continuous low but it's really not necessary to shoot in burst mode as single shot works just fine.

Cheers,
Greg Basco

Thanks for verifying that Greg.  I have been able to fire both Nikon and Canon flashes with modern Sony cameras but wasn't sure if the Photix would still work.  The only problem is that if the flash goes to sleep, the camera can't wake it up and you have to cycle the flash to restart it.  That is usually not an issue in a prepared multi-flash setup.  It's the same by the way if you try to fire a Nikon flash with a Canon camera or a Canon flash with a Nikon camera - once the flash goes to sleep the camera can't wake it.  By the way, a Sony flash, with its multi interface that looks more like a chip connector on the end of the hot shoe can not be fired by any other brand camera.

E.J. Peiker wrote:Thanks for verifying that Greg.  I have been able to fire both Nikon and Canon flashes with modern Sony cameras but wasn't sure if the Photix would still work.  The only problem is that if the flash goes to sleep, the camera can't wake it up and you have to cycle the flash to restart it.  That is usually not an issue in a prepared multi-flash setup.  It's the same by the way if you try to fire a Nikon flash with a Canon camera or a Canon flash with a Nikon camera - once the flash goes to sleep the camera can't wake it.  By the way, a Sony flash, with its multi interface that looks more like a chip connector on the end of the hot shoe can not be fired by any other brand camera.

Hi, EJ. Right, the sleep thing is a potential issue but as you said, with the action you get at good hummingbird spots, it really doesn't matter. I have my flashes set to sleep off or at least to the maximum 60 minute off time depending on which brand flashes I'm using.

I do know what you mean on the Sony flash or transmitter chip interface but thanks for clarifying that as it could definitely be confusing!

All the best,
Greg

Greg Basco wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:Thanks for verifying that Greg.  I have been able to fire both Nikon and Canon flashes with modern Sony cameras but wasn't sure if the Photix would still work.  The only problem is that if the flash goes to sleep, the camera can't wake it up and you have to cycle the flash to restart it.  That is usually not an issue in a prepared multi-flash setup.  It's the same by the way if you try to fire a Nikon flash with a Canon camera or a Canon flash with a Nikon camera - once the flash goes to sleep the camera can't wake it.  By the way, a Sony flash, with its multi interface that looks more like a chip connector on the end of the hot shoe can not be fired by any other brand camera.

Hi, EJ. Right, the sleep thing is a potential issue but as you said, with the action you get at good hummingbird spots, it really doesn't matter. I have my flashes set to sleep off or at least to the maximum 60 minute off time depending on which brand flashes I'm using.

I do know what you mean on the Sony flash or transmitter chip interface but thanks for clarifying that as it could definitely be confusing!

All the best,
Greg

I think a picture is worth a thousand words on this...   Sony on the left, Nikon in the middle and Fuji on the right.  Canon is similar to Nikon and Fuji I just don't have this flash in Canon...

Photix triggers work across brands as long as you're using manual flash. ie; I use canon triggers with Nikon, Sony and other model cameras. We even had a woman with a Leica point and shoot one year and it worked just fine.

Thanks everyone.  As E.J. suggested both Gregs gave the answer that confirmed their bona fides as tour leaders.  I'm guessing that the single bottom contact on the Sony MIS connection is the contact for the flash discharge and allows the Phottix trigger to work across brands in manual mode.  I appreciate the info and, while I'm not going on one of their tours this month, I will consider them in the future, especially now that they came through with an answer that will help me pack and better enjoy the experience.  And everyone else helped too...I didn't even know what electronic first curtain mode was; now I do.  Thanks for the forum.

neubigod wrote:Thanks everyone.  As E.J. suggested both Gregs gave the answer that confirmed their bona fides as tour leaders.  I'm guessing that the single bottom contact on the Sony MIS connection is the contact for the flash discharge and allows the Phottix trigger to work across brands in manual mode.  I appreciate the info and, while I'm not going on one of their tours this month, I will consider them in the future, especially now that they came through with an answer that will help me pack and better enjoy the experience.  And everyone else helped too...I didn't even know what electronic first curtain mode was; now I do.  Thanks for the forum.

 Our pleasure. And yes, for manual flash, it's that central firing contact and pin that matters. For advanced functions such as high-speed sync and TTL you'll want to have flashes and transmitters made for each specific camera brand.

Cheers,
Greg

Although not in response to the OP’s question, this article may be of interest to hummingbird photographers:

https://www.gerlachnaturephoto.com/arti ... up-hummers

John also has a good book on use of flash outdoors:

https://www.gerlachnaturephoto.com/prod ... hotography

And from his gallery:

https://www.gerlachnaturephoto.com/hummingbird-images

Joe