Nikon 500 f 5.6 PF ED VR Discussion

SantaFeJoe wrote:What camera are you using it on, E.J.?

Joe

D500 and D7200, I don't currently have a Nikon full frame to test it with but can do that in a couple of weeks after I get back from some travel.

E.J. Peiker wrote:My first impressions after the first half day of testing:
- so tiny, so light, I could handhold this all day long even with a bum shoulder
- the Kirk replacement foot works like a champ
- this lens is much sharper with VR off when mounted on a tripod - even at 1/100s if your long lens technique is good.  I would only recommend VR on when not on a tripod.  With VR off this lens is on par with the 500 f/4 lenses.  With it on it is not, it's more on par with lenses like a Sigma 150-600 Sport which is good but not in super tele f/4 prime territory.  This is even more true with the TC-14E III
- with the TC-14E III AF is still very good and you can still select any AF point, even on an older body like a D7200
- AF is very quick and very accurate once calibrated but I haven't done any birds in flight yet.

EJ

How is the sharpness wide open with the TC-14E III attached? Useable or do you need to stop down? Comparable to 500mm f/4 lenses with 1.4TC's attached shot wide open? 

Cheers
Andy

Andy, I've never been totally satisfied with any lens wide open with a TC, especially a Nikon TC.  I'm just starting my evaluation of the lens so I'll have more to say in a couple of weeks but just from test targets, It was usable without VR, but with VR, wide open and a TC it is softer than what I am willing to accept.  That is true for the Nikon 500 f/4 as well though.

Size comparison between the 500 f/5.6E and the 80-400 f/4.5-5.6.  The 500 actually weighs 5 oz less with the lens coats on according to my food scale which is accurate to 1/4 oz.  This is with the 80-400 at 80mm, when zoomed to 400mm it is significantly longer than the 500PF.  Thanks to Scott Elowitz at LensCoat for rushing me a new custom coat for this lens and Kirk Photo for a replacement foot with integrated Arca-swiss dovetail.  Also the ability to take a 95mm filter which I have a full complement of (CPL, ND1.8, ND3.0, etc...) is a first for me at this focal length and opens up some possibilities...  I think this lens is going to put joy in bird photography for me again - due to some health issues, the larger 500 f/4 and 150-600 class of lenses has become more and more painful over the last year or two.

Andy Trowbridge wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:My first impressions after the first half day of testing:
- so tiny, so light, I could handhold this all day long even with a bum shoulder
- the Kirk replacement foot works like a champ
- this lens is much sharper with VR off when mounted on a tripod - even at 1/100s if your long lens technique is good.  I would only recommend VR on when not on a tripod.  With VR off this lens is on par with the 500 f/4 lenses.  With it on it is not, it's more on par with lenses like a Sigma 150-600 Sport which is good but not in super tele f/4 prime territory.  This is even more true with the TC-14E III
- with the TC-14E III AF is still very good and you can still select any AF point, even on an older body like a D7200
- AF is very quick and very accurate once calibrated but I haven't done any birds in flight yet.

EJ

How is the sharpness wide open with the TC-14E III attached? Useable or do you need to stop down? Comparable to 500mm f/4 lenses with 1.4TC's attached shot wide open? 

Cheers
Andy

Another follow-up on this question - I did run some center sharpness tests on the ISO chart this morning and the biggest difference I see at 700mm f/8 (500+1.4x wide open) and 700mm f/11 (1 stop down) is a slight increase in contrast and a very slight decrease in CA from almost nothing to nothing when stopped down a bit.  Both easily outresolved the test chart.  VR was off.

E.J. Peiker wrote:

Andy Trowbridge wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:My first impressions after the first half day of testing:
- so tiny, so light, I could handhold this all day long even with a bum shoulder
- the Kirk replacement foot works like a champ
- this lens is much sharper with VR off when mounted on a tripod - even at 1/100s if your long lens technique is good.  I would only recommend VR on when not on a tripod.  With VR off this lens is on par with the 500 f/4 lenses.  With it on it is not, it's more on par with lenses like a Sigma 150-600 Sport which is good but not in super tele f/4 prime territory.  This is even more true with the TC-14E III
- with the TC-14E III AF is still very good and you can still select any AF point, even on an older body like a D7200
- AF is very quick and very accurate once calibrated but I haven't done any birds in flight yet.

EJ

How is the sharpness wide open with the TC-14E III attached? Useable or do you need to stop down? Comparable to 500mm f/4 lenses with 1.4TC's attached shot wide open? 

Cheers
Andy

Another follow-up on this question - I did run some center sharpness tests on the ISO chart this morning and the biggest difference I see at 700mm f/8 (500+1.4x wide open) and 700mm f/11 (1 stop down) is a slight increase in contrast and a very slight decrease in CA from almost nothing to nothing when stopped down a bit.  Both easily outresolved the test chart.  VR was off.

Cheers for the update EJ

E.J. Peiker wrote:Andy, I've never been totally satisfied with any lens wide open with a TC, especially a Nikon TC.  I'm just starting my evaluation of the lens so I'll have more to say in a couple of weeks but just from test targets, It was usable without VR, but with VR, wide open and a TC it is softer than what I am willing to accept.  That is true for the Nikon 500 f/4 as well though.

EJ, when you say 'That is true for the Nikon 500 f/4 as well' are you talking about the latest version or the older one or both?

Cheers

Andy

Andy Trowbridge wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:Andy, I've never been totally satisfied with any lens wide open with a TC, especially a Nikon TC.  I'm just starting my evaluation of the lens so I'll have more to say in a couple of weeks but just from test targets, It was usable without VR, but with VR, wide open and a TC it is softer than what I am willing to accept.  That is true for the Nikon 500 f/4 as well though.

EJ, when you say 'That is true for the Nikon 500 f/4 as well' are you talking about the latest version or the older one or both?

Cheers

Andy

Any and all and any brand, when you put a TC on, they are sharper if you stop down a bit.  Often as little as 1/3 to 2/3 of a stop can make a big difference in detail rendering.

E.J. Peiker wrote:

Andy Trowbridge wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:Andy, I've never been totally satisfied with any lens wide open with a TC, especially a Nikon TC.  I'm just starting my evaluation of the lens so I'll have more to say in a couple of weeks but just from test targets, It was usable without VR, but with VR, wide open and a TC it is softer than what I am willing to accept.  That is true for the Nikon 500 f/4 as well though.

EJ, when you say 'That is true for the Nikon 500 f/4 as well' are you talking about the latest version or the older one or both?

Cheers

Andy

Any and all and any brand, when you put a TC on, they are sharper if you stop down a bit.  Often as little as 1/3 to 2/3 of a stop can make a big difference in detail rendering.

Cheers EJ, yes a realise that they are all a bit sharper and I always shoot mind at f/7.1 or f/8 with the 1.4x TC attached but starting with a f/5.6 lens and then adding the 1.4TC I'm already at f/8 and stopping down anymore isn't always an option with light levels etc. From your limited testing so far would the 500PF+TC-14III shot wide open be comparably in terms of sharpness/detail rendering to the Sigma 150-600mm Sport @ 600mm f/8. The reason I ask is that I have the Sigma which I'm not entirely happy with and I also find it just a bit heavy for prolonged handheld shooting sessions. So the Nikon 500PF is a appealing for its light weight and small size but I also know that for at least 50% of the time I will need to use it with the 1.4TC attached.

With VR off, probably similar, with VR on probably a bit worse.  I have a lot more testing to do on VR but will be gone for a week on a landscape shoot with Fuji gear only.  I'm not at all impressed with the effect that the VR has on sharpness when nounted on a tripod from my limited testing so far but I want to try Sport mode rather than normal mode and try a few other things.  It's also a brand new TC so I want to be sure that I don't have a lemon of a TC.

Finally back to a bit of testing this morning in my backyard with some Mockingbirds on my back fence.  No issue at all with the 1.4x - very sharp (after focus calibration) stopped down 1/3 stop to f/9 and VR off.  Still a little soft for my taste with the 1.4x and VR on when mounted on a tripod but it does sharpen up enough.

Note the fine hair on his leg...

E.J. Peiker wrote:Finally back to a bit of testing this morning in my backyard with some Mockingbirds on my back fence.  No issue at all with the 1.4x - very sharp (after focus calibration) stopped down 1/3 stop to f/9 and VR off.  Still a little soft for my taste with the 1.4x and VR on when mounted on a tripod but it does sharpen up enough.

Note the fine hair on his leg...

Definitely needs a shave! lol

Have to try f9 with x1.4, I've kept it at f8. I use sport mode, wonder if you tried that yet with VR? Mine has actually been all hand held which is why I bought the lens.

I haven't done much hand holding yet and generally do not except for flight shooting.

The thing I miss most about the big f/4 lenses, believe it or not, is the 90 degree click stops in the lens collar. With those lenses if you ahve everything level, it is very quick to go to vertical and know that the shot isn't skewed. With this lens there are no click stops and it's easy to over or under rotate the lens when going from horizontal to vertical or vice versa.

Steve Perry's field test and review of the Nikon 500mm f5.6 can be found at the link below. It includes comparisons to the Nikon 600mm f4, 200-500mm and 300mm f4 P lenses:

https://backcountrygallery.com/nikon-500-pf-review/

photoman4343 wrote:Steve Perry's field test and review of the Nikon 500mm f5.6 can be found at the link below. It includes comparisons to the Nikon  600mm f4, 200-500mm and 300mm f4 P lenses:

https://backcountrygallery.com/nikon-500-pf-review/

I just finished watching this video. It is a very thorough and interesting review, and of course from a nature photographers perspective. A good discussion of the VR use on this lens as well as focus speed and sharpness when compared to the 300PF - 600E - and 200-500, as well as many other good points in the use of this lens. 

Thanks for the link, Steve's reviews are usually good and corroborate my findings. In this case, virtually every conclusion he made, I concur with. He did not, however test what I find the lens' biggest weakness which is 500 with the 1.4x and VR on. I will test Normal vs Sport mode next to see if that clears up this issue as all of my testing with that combo has been with normal VR mode so far.

OK, did an ISO 12233 resolution test of the lens with and without the 1.4x and off, normal and sport VR modes all on a tripod.  I am very happy to find that there is very little resolution drop-off from no VR to Sport mode with and without the TC.  There is a significant drop with the 1.4x in the Normal VR mode and only an extremely slight drop off without the TC.  Test is done indoors at 1/250s, wide open with flash to eliminate camera movement as a variable.  So basically:

500 VR Off - Excellent
500 VR Normal - Very Good
500 VR Sport - Excellent

500 + 1.4x VR Off - Very Good
500 + 1.4x VR Normal - Good
500 + 1.4x VR Sport - Very Good

When redoing this test with the 200-500, in every case the 500 f/5.6 PF, with and without TC, is significantly sharper and it takes much less time to achieve focus lock.  The differences in the corners of even an APS-C frame are quite distinct.  So for those wondering, as expected for a prime costing 3 times as much, the performance across the board is much better with the 500 PF.

One other test I did is for Chromatic Aberration (CA), there is virtually no CA at any aperture with the bare lens and only the slightest indications of CA with the 1.4x wide open

E.J. thanks so much for your findings using sport mode. I had found the same as I mentioned above but not good at quantifying things like you are, you come from a way better background (Pharmacist vs Engineer) for testing but at least I did notice the difference! lol

Also Steve is usually dead on with his stuff, so glad he posted his findings. Hand holding this lens is really awesome which was my hope and why I bought it. I will continue to use my 600vr on tripod but it sure is ice to not have to lug it a mile down the beach at my age and with my back!

Now I have to decide on weather to buy a D850 and crop or use my D500. Will see after the holidays.....and how much money I have left! 

I have several images from late September(9/21 to be exact)on my Facebook page (link in Sig) all hand held by the way. Some better than others naturally but all recent images are with the 500pf with and without the 1.4EIII converter. 

EJ,
As a side track, you mentioned both D500 and D7200.
Wonder if there is any reason(s) you still keep the D7200 for your wildlife body?
Is it to do with better file image quality or just a backup?

What is the difference between VR normal and VR sport for those unfamiliar with Nikon.