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by Charlie Woodrich on Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:29 pm
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Last edited by Charlie Woodrich on Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:29 pm
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One of my big gripes with the Sony system is that you can't write the entire camera set-up to a memory card, only the custom shooting mode set-ups.
 

by Charlie Woodrich on Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:37 pm
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Last edited by Charlie Woodrich on Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 

by Vivek on Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:05 pm
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Charlie I am sorry you're having this problem with one of their higher end bodies and lenses and I cannot be of help to you.

This (service) is one of the *major* reasons I am still with Canon and not with Sony or Nikon. I usually take two trips per year and photograph my daughters' swims on the weekend, so working gear is critical for me even though I am not a pro. Also, quick turnaround by competent technicians is also important for me. I can live without the lower noise at high ISO (although I would love the AF capabilities of the D850). If Sony and Nikon ever came up with something close to CPS that I can pay yearly to get reasonably good service, I will certainly evaluate other things regarding the switch to those platforms. Right now for me, CPS rules and has mostly been a very positive experience.
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by Charlie Woodrich on Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:06 am
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Vivek wrote:
Charlie I am sorry you're having this problem with one of their higher end bodies and lenses and I cannot be of help to you.

This (service) is one of the *major* reasons I am still with Canon and not with Sony or Nikon. I usually take two trips per year and photograph my daughters' swims on the weekend, so working gear is critical for me even though I am not a pro. Also, quick turnaround by competent technicians is also important for me. I can live without the lower noise at high ISO (although I would love the AF capabilities of the D850). If Sony and Nikon ever came up with something close to CPS that I can pay yearly to get reasonably good service, I will certainly evaluate other things regarding the switch to those platforms. Right now for me, CPS rules and has mostly been a very positive experience.


Last edited by Charlie Woodrich on Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:42 am
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Charlie Woodrich wrote:
I would not go on an expensive trip relying solely on the Sony gear.  Last year I went to shoot polar bears just north of Churchill.  My main gear was Canon but I also brought along a Sony a7M2 for landscapes.  You leave your gear outside in a sheltered area so you are not constantly re-aclimating it; and you just pull out the batteries and cards.  The second morning I go out to insert the batteries and cards, and when I turned on the Sony the menu came up and asked me what language to use! All of the settings were lost!  The Canon, on the other hand was a relative tank.  The battery life was good and it performed like it should.  The Sony does produce nice images, but at this point they apparently lack the infrastructure to service their camera products.

And yet I have been doing exactly that for 5 years all over the world from polar regions to equatorial regions, from deserts to rainforests, from calm sunny days to hurricanes... ;)

I even wrote an article about that back in 2014 using the very first generation of the a7R in some really terrible conditions.  I have never had any piece of Sony gear fail on me in those conditions and I can't say that for Canon, Nikon, or even Phase One gear:
http://www.ejphoto.com/Quack%20PDF/Winter%20In%20Iceland%20With%20a%20Sony%20a7R.pdf

Note that every issue that I noted in the cons section has been resolved in the a7 III, a7R III, and a9 - the current generation of these cameras.

As for your camera resetting itself, here is what likely happened, the a7R II uses the old tiny battery.  Not only does this battery power the camera, it also charges the internal cell battery that is used to maintain info like your camera set-up, time, date, etc.  Since you left it outside in cold conditions, and especially if that tiny battery wasn't freshly charged, the cold saps all the energy (not only from the main battery but also the tiny internal battery) so the next morning, all settings were lost.  Your Canon has a much bigger battery so it was able to maintain charge in it's internal battery.  The a7 III, a7R III, and a9 would not have this problem as they have much bigger batteries.  But the lesson here is that if you are going to leave a camera outside in the cold, make sure that it has a fully charged fresh battery in it.

On the topic of service, this is an issue if you are not a Sony Imaging Pro member (similar to CPS - you pay for it annually but you do have to qualify).  Sony does not service it's products in the USA, they have contracted a third party with a mixed reputation.  There has been substantial improvement over the last couple of years but they still are not at the level of Canon repair or even Nikon repair which isn't as good as Canon.  Sony Imaging Pro Service members do get a significantly better level of service but that should not be an excuse.
 

by Primus on Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:00 am
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Vivek, I too take at least two trips a year (four this year) and for me too equipment functioning is absolutely essential. Earlier this year I was in Japan for winter bird photography and was out on the boat in the sea-ice for hours, at below zero. I sold all my Canon gear over a year ago and have only taken Sony for my trips since then. Used A9, A7r3 and Rx1r2 in decreasing order of frequency. There has been absolutely no problem of any kind. The battery life is of course less than it was with my 1DX2 but is adequate for my needs and of course the batteries being smaller you can carry more of them.

I've used only 128G SD cards in all my Sony cameras and have shot over 120,000 images in the past 18 months - not a single issue with the cards, I have Sandisk and Lexar plus two Sony G-class and M-class cards.

I have not had to service my cameras so far. I just clean the bodies and blow out the dust from the sensor every day in the field before setting out. Not had to clean the sensor with the gelstick or swabs in the past two years, unlike the 1DX2 which was a dust magnet and sensor cleaning was always a nightmare.

Yes, it is possible that if I had to service the cameras through Sony I too may have problems, but that has yet to happen.

Of course everyone's experience may be different. So far, I am very happy with the decision to switch to Sony.

Pradeep
 

by Joerg Rockenberger on Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:03 am
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I've carried and used my Sony a7rII in wet conditions (e.g. mist/foggy, rain ranging from drizzle to downpour, waterfall spray) for the past 3 weeks and have had no issues so far.

My iPhone 6 on the other hand had to get the "rice bag" treatment even though it was in the pocket of a rain jacket during the downpour. Protip: cover the lightning port with tape or similar or you may end up with a rice grain in there... 

Best, Joerg
 

by Jens Peermann on Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:24 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
As for your camera resetting itself, here is what likely happened, the a7R II uses the old tiny battery.  Not only does this battery power the camera, it also charges the internal cell battery that is used to maintain info like your camera set-up, time, date, etc.  Since you left it outside in cold conditions, and especially if that tiny battery wasn't freshly charged, the cold saps all the energy (not only from the main battery but also the tiny internal battery) so the next morning, all settings were lost.  Your Canon has a much bigger battery so it was able to maintain charge in it's internal battery.  The a7 III, a7R III, and a9 would not have this problem as they have much bigger batteries.  But the lesson here is that if you are going to leave a camera outside in the cold, make sure that it has a fully charged fresh battery in it.

I have the same problem with all four of my Sonys, the A7, A7II, A7RII and A6500. Even when they're stored in my office with a loaded battery grip I will have to re-charge the batteries once a week, else I lose all setting on them. So, the size of the battery does not seem to be a factor. Maybe it's a certain combination of settings that we use that makes the batteries drain. Can't think of any that could have this effect, though.
Life without a camera is possible but pointless! See for yourself: http://galleries.peermann.com
 

by Mike in O on Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:13 pm
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I have no trouble with my batteries draining even when accidentally leaving them on and letting them go in sleep mode...A mount, rx100, and nex 7. I think the battery may be on its last legs, do they drain when out of the camera?
 

by Jens Peermann on Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:21 pm
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Mike in O wrote:
I have no trouble with my batteries draining even when accidentally leaving them on and letting them go in sleep mode...A mount, rx100, and nex 7.  I think the battery may be on its last legs, do they drain when out of the camera?


I have 15 NP-FW50 batteries, some brand new, some as old as 4 years and most of them in between. They all behave the same when in the camera. None of them drain when out of the camera or when in the battery grip when it is detached from the camera.
Life without a camera is possible but pointless! See for yourself: http://galleries.peermann.com
 

by signgrap on Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:04 pm
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Jens Peermann wrote:
E.J. Peiker wrote:
As for your camera resetting itself, here is what likely happened, the a7R II uses the old tiny battery.  Not only does this battery power the camera, it also charges the internal cell battery that is used to maintain info like your camera set-up, time, date, etc.  Since you left it outside in cold conditions, and especially if that tiny battery wasn't freshly charged, the cold saps all the energy (not only from the main battery but also the tiny internal battery) so the next morning, all settings were lost.  Your Canon has a much bigger battery so it was able to maintain charge in it's internal battery.  The a7 III, a7R III, and a9 would not have this problem as they have much bigger batteries.  But the lesson here is that if you are going to leave a camera outside in the cold, make sure that it has a fully charged fresh battery in it.

I have the same problem with all four of my Sonys, the A7, A7II, A7RII and A6500. Even when they're stored in my office with a loaded battery grip I will have to re-charge the batteries once a week, else I lose all setting on them. So, the size of the battery does not seem to be a factor. Maybe it's a certain combination of settings that we use that makes the batteries drain. Can't think of any that could have this effect, though.

This seems to be a very short time to have the batteries drain that quickly.
   - A contributor to battery drain is not exhausting the battery charge before re-charging. Always use up the battery's entire charge till it won't function any more in camera before re-charging. 
   - Make sure all cameras have the latest firmware.
   - Are the batteries Sony OEM or Chinese knock off? While Sony batteries are more expensive they are much more dependable. 
   - Have the batteries always drained this quickly or is this a more recent problem? If it's a recent problem, the batteries may be at the end of their useful life as every re-charging shortens the batteries life by a little. If some of your batteries date back to 2014 (a7) this may be the cause of some of problems. See if all your batteries are draining at the same rate; if not mark the ones losing charge and only use the batteries that are holding charge (assuming there's a difference).
   - Not having turned on airplane mode is the # 1 reason for battery draw down in a Sony camera's when powered on.
   - Is WiFi and NFC turned off? These drain power when camera is powered on
   - Note even with the batteries stored outside the camera the batteries do slowly lose charge - a % or two a week, newer batteries holding charge better than older batteries.

This may give you additional insight into the problem:
https://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/sony-a7rii-battery-draw-summary/ 

I have the same Sony cameras as you with the exception of the a6500 and none of my Sony's discharge anywhere as quickly as you cameras are being drained.
Dick Ludwig
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:56 pm
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Jens Peermann wrote:
E.J. Peiker wrote:
As for your camera resetting itself, here is what likely happened, the a7R II uses the old tiny battery.  Not only does this battery power the camera, it also charges the internal cell battery that is used to maintain info like your camera set-up, time, date, etc.  Since you left it outside in cold conditions, and especially if that tiny battery wasn't freshly charged, the cold saps all the energy (not only from the main battery but also the tiny internal battery) so the next morning, all settings were lost.  Your Canon has a much bigger battery so it was able to maintain charge in it's internal battery.  The a7 III, a7R III, and a9 would not have this problem as they have much bigger batteries.  But the lesson here is that if you are going to leave a camera outside in the cold, make sure that it has a fully charged fresh battery in it.

I have the same problem with all four of my Sonys, the A7, A7II, A7RII and A6500. Even when they're stored in my office with a loaded battery grip I will have to re-charge the batteries once a week, else I lose all setting on them. So, the size of the battery does not seem to be a factor. Maybe it's a certain combination of settings that we use that makes the batteries drain. Can't think of any that could have this effect, though.


Do you leave WiFi/Bluetooth on.  If so go into the menus and turn airplane mode to On
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:01 pm
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signgrap wrote:
Jens Peermann wrote:
E.J. Peiker wrote:
As for your camera resetting itself, here is what likely happened, the a7R II uses the old tiny battery.  Not only does this battery power the camera, it also charges the internal cell battery that is used to maintain info like your camera set-up, time, date, etc.  Since you left it outside in cold conditions, and especially if that tiny battery wasn't freshly charged, the cold saps all the energy (not only from the main battery but also the tiny internal battery) so the next morning, all settings were lost.  Your Canon has a much bigger battery so it was able to maintain charge in it's internal battery.  The a7 III, a7R III, and a9 would not have this problem as they have much bigger batteries.  But the lesson here is that if you are going to leave a camera outside in the cold, make sure that it has a fully charged fresh battery in it.

I have the same problem with all four of my Sonys, the A7, A7II, A7RII and A6500. Even when they're stored in my office with a loaded battery grip I will have to re-charge the batteries once a week, else I lose all setting on them. So, the size of the battery does not seem to be a factor. Maybe it's a certain combination of settings that we use that makes the batteries drain. Can't think of any that could have this effect, though.

This seems to be a very short time to have the batteries drain that quickly.
   - A contributor to battery drain is not exhausting the battery charge before re-charging. Always use up the battery's entire charge till it won't function any more in camera before re-charging. 
   - Make sure all cameras have the latest firmware.
   - Are the batteries Sony OEM or Chinese knock off? While Sony batteries are more expensive they are much more dependable. 
   - Have the batteries always drained this quickly or is this a more recent problem? If it's a recent problem, the batteries may be at the end of their useful life as every re-charging shortens the batteries life by a little. If some of your batteries date back to 2014 (a7) this may be the cause of some of problems. See if all your batteries are draining at the same rate; if not mark the ones losing charge and only use the batteries that are holding charge (assuming there's a difference).
   - Not having turned on airplane mode is the # 1 reason for battery draw down in a Sony camera's when powered on.
   - Is WiFi and NFC turned off? These drain power when camera is powered on
   - Note even with the batteries stored outside the camera the batteries do slowly lose charge - a % or two a week, newer batteries holding charge better than older batteries.

This may give you additional insight into the problem:
https://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/sony-a7rii-battery-draw-summary/ 

I have the same Sony cameras as you with the exception of the a6500 and none of my Sony's discharge anywhere as quickly as you cameras are being drained.

- Sorry but the fully draining the battery before recharging on Lithium Ion batteries is absolutely the wrong thing to do.  Repeated full drainings on this battery technology will severely reduce the life span.  your advice was sound in the days of NiCad and NiMH batteries but is not correct for LiIon.  Maximum battery longevity is achieved if you recharge them in the 30-40% remaining range but it doesn't hurt to recharge them even at 90%.  What does hurt is repeated deep discharges over and over.
- Agree with everything else 100%
- I can leave any Sony camera for at least 2 months and in the case of my a6000 IR camera it can be 4-6 months, yes the battery will drain down but never have I lost the date/time and camera settings.

This is a valuable discussion so please put the original text back into the original message. Our guidelines request that a user not delete a message in the way it was done because now we have a thread, with valuable information without any kind of comments to initiate it.
 

by Jens Peermann on Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:16 am
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The Airplane Mode/WiFi Off setting is very likely to be the root of this problem. I activated Airplane Mode on all four cameras - effectively turning off WIFI - and recharge all batteries. I'll let them sit for a few days and then will see what happened.
Life without a camera is possible but pointless! See for yourself: http://galleries.peermann.com
 

by SantaFeJoe on Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:27 pm
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Quote:
[table][tr][td]Charlie Woodrich wrote:
I would not go on an expensive trip relying solely on the Sony gear.  Last year I went to shoot polar bears just north of Churchill.  My main gear was Canon but I also brought along a Sony a7M2 for landscapes.  You leave your gear outside in a sheltered area so you are not constantly re-aclimating it; and you just pull out the batteries and cards.  The second morning I go out to insert the batteries and cards, and when I turned on the Sony the menu came up and asked me what language to use! All of the settings were lost!  The Canon, on the other hand was a relative tank.  The battery life was good and it performed like it should.  The Sony does produce nice images, but at this point they apparently lack the infrastructure to service their camera products.[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Being that the tiny internal battery suffers from the cold, I'm sure that if you left one of the bigger batteries in it to keep the internal battery charged you would not have had that problem. 
There is plenty of info on batteries, charging, cold and warm weather performance and way more at this site:

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/discharging_at_high_and_low_temperatures

The sidebar has a lot of topics listed and there are more if you visit the home page.

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/

One thing I learned is that certain lithium batteries cannot be charged below 32 degrees. Plating will occur and damage the battery. Read more here below figure 2:

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_at_high_and_low_temperatures



Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
 

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