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by MND on Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:46 pm
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After having used my A7Riii (M3) I feel I'm qualified to comment on what I think of it.

It's slightly heavier than the A7Rii (M2) but feels nicer in the hand due to the larger battery grip compartment.

The Joystick is a nice addition for moving the focus point around. It can also be remapped to serve other purposes.

Focusing is faster than the M2 particularly with the 100-400 lens. It is still not as good as the D500 or D850 however, I know there are far more people that can quantify this, I'll just  say in my opinion it's not as good.

Battery life is phenomenal compared to the 2 even though I'm been chimping and altering the settings a lot.

The Tilting display is nice and if it's out it turns off the EVF all together. The EVF is better than the M2, seems a bit washed out compared to real life but that might be a setting somewhere.

Eye AF is good, very sticky. It seems to work well even if the subject is wearing spectacles.

The menu structure has been significantly modified from the M2 just when I was getting used to it. I think it's more logical and I do like the My Menu option similar to the Nikon system. 

The AF On button is a welcome addition and I remapped the AEL button to be Eye AF. 

I keep pressing the Movie button when I really want AF On.

You can reprogram the C1, C2, C3 and C4 buttons for 3 categories depending on which mode you are in. Still Photography, Movies and Playback. They have also added some Custom Recall functions. I've only set up Custom 1 at the moment and have it set more for quick reaction type situations such as a BIF. I have Custom 1 set to be Aperture, Cont. Shooting, Highlight Metering, ISO Auto, Continuous AF and Wide Focus Area.  I have the Focus Hold Button on the FE100-400 GM lens mapped to recall this Custom 1 setup. My thinking there is I'm only going to photograph BIF with this lens so I'll use the button on the lens to recall the settings that I'm going to need in a hurry.  Theres so many permutations and it's early days yet so I'm sure I'll refine the settings as I go along.

I was photographing out of a window to a feeder setup I have beside the house. I was using my old Gitzo 1325, BH-55 and a Sidekick. In this situation I tend to hold the camera with my right hand on the AF-On and Shutter Release and my left hand pressing down on the lens. I've used this technique for years and have found it works for me. On the M3 and 100-400 it doesn't feel right, it's almost as though the dinky little camera is going to come away in my hand. I don't have big hands but couldn't get comfortable holding it like this. I will have no problem using this combination in a walk around situation, in fact I'll welcome the lighter weight but it just doesn't feel right on a tripod. I'll give it another try ASAP, the problem at the weekend was heat haze from the hot room to the freezing temps and snow outside.

Well theres my initial impressions I'm sure E.J. is working on his usual monumental hands on review which I'll look forward to immensely.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:45 pm
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It will be a while as it doesn't fit in my 2017 budget which at this point is already in the red but I do plan on getting one in early 2018. I have had one hands-on though as well as the a9 which is very similar in operation. For BIF, the better tracking camera is the a9 but it won't let you crop as much due to it being almost half the pixels. I have not found the Wide Focus or Group Focus options to be the best setting for birds in my experience with Sony Cameras (or Nikon for that matter) because it tends to go for the closest thing to the camera that is within the AF area so it will catch a wingtip rather than the body/eye. In my experience with the a6300 and a9 for BIF, I still recommend a single AF point with auto expansion turned on - just like a DSLR. That way you control what part of the subject the AF system locks onto.

The menu, is no longer an epic disaster but it's still an abomination as it is in most cameras. The My Menu at least helps in that regard. It boggles the mind that nobody has a menu structure that is logical. Canon comes closest but still isn't great, Olympus is the worst, everybody else falls in-between with Sony and Nikon in the lower tier.

As for the EVF, make sure you adjust the color to match reality as closely as possible, you usually have to warm it as much as that option will allow you to, and turn down the brightness a bit an it shouldn't look as washed out.

I don't understand the reference to dinky camera feels like it is going to come away in your hand when mounted on a tripod?

Where did you find instructions on how to remap the buttons on your 100-400 - I can not find that in the documentation for my lens?
 

by MND on Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:18 am
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E.J. Peiker wrote:It will be a while as it doesn't fit in my 2017 budget which at this point is already in the red but I do plan on getting one in early 2018.  I have had one hands-on though as well as the a9 which is very similar in operation.  For BIF, the better tracking camera is the a9 but it won't let you crop as much due to it being almost half the pixels.  I have not found the Wide Focus or Group Focus options to be the best setting for birds in my experience with Sony Cameras (or Nikon for that matter) because it tends to go for the closest thing to the camera that is within the AF area so it will catch a wingtip rather than the body/eye.  In my experience with the a6300 and a9 for BIF, I still recommend a single AF point with auto expansion turned on - just like a DSLR.  That way you control what part of the subject the AF system locks onto.  

The menu, is no longer an epic disaster but it's still an abomination as it is in most cameras.  The My Menu at least helps in that regard.  It boggles the mind that nobody has a menu structure that is logical.  Canon comes closest but still isn't great, Olympus is the worst, everybody else falls in-between with Sony and Nikon in the lower tier.

As for the EVF, make sure you adjust the color to match reality as closely as possible, you usually have to warm it as much as that option will allow you to, and turn down the brightness a bit an it shouldn't look as washed out.

I don't understand the reference to dinky camera feels like it is going to come away in your hand when mounted on a tripod?

Where did you find instructions on how to remap the buttons on your 100-400 - I can not find that in the documentation for my lens?
I haven't tried my BIF settings yet but I will certainly try your suggestion of Single Point with Auto Expansion instead of Wide Area. Thanks for that.

I'll figure out where to adjust the EVF colors and brightness at some point.

When I'm in a blind or inside photographing out of the window I tend to have the mount (Sidekick or Ball Head) slightly tight because I don't want it to drop due to balance shifts with Zoom lenses. If I want to shift position I'm holding the camera with my right hand, fingers on the AF On and Shutter Release, left hand on top of the lens. I move the camera/lens position by either pushing or pulling on the camera. Over the years I've used this method with all my longer lenses, the only one I had to be slightly gentle with was the Nikon 80-400 VR2 as it would make an intermittent connection to the camera on occasion. I have only just started using the Sony 100-400 on a tripod with the A7RII and A7RIII. It's just feels more delicate and doesn't give me the same confidence as my Nikons.  The Sony Camera and Lens combination is very well constructed, it's just not as "beefy" as the Nikons.  I hope I've explained this satisfactorily.


The Still Photo Custom Key Settings have 3 Pages, on P3/3 the last entry is the Focus Hold Button and mine is assigned to Recall Custom Hold 1.
Image
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:39 am
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Hmm, still don't understand what pulling and pushing on the camera does for you... I just can't figure out what you mean and why you would want to do that. Or do you mean that you don't fully tighten the lens down on the Arca Swiss Clamp so that you can reposition the lens within the clamp to balance it? If so, I'd be afraid of walking off without it fully tightened and something bad happening. I haven't ever heard of anyone doing that before.

Thanks for the Custom Key tip - weird that they don't even reference that in the instructions for the lens. It's on the second and last page on the a7r II. I wish you could program each of the three focus hold buttons separately like you can on Sigma lenses.

One thing I have noticed since getting the 100-400, on my a7r II, if I leave that lens attached to the camera, with the camera off, it discharges the battery in about 3 days. Seems like when this lens is attached, power is being drawn.
 

by MND on Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:09 am
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Lets say your using a 500mm lens on a Wimberley for example. Because it's nicely balanced and not in any danger and tipping you can have it very loose. To shift your focus position you hold the camera and move it to the Left or Right or Up and Down. No strain or pressure on the Lens/Camera mount. Nice and fluid.

With the Sigma 150-600 or the Sony 100-400 the balance point shifts as you zoom so to prevent the lens or camera dropping onto the tripod I have to have the Sidekick tension set higher than I would on a fixed balanced lens. I still shift the focus point exactly the same as I would on a balanced lens but I have to apply more force to make it move due to the higher tension setting on the Sidekick.  What I am saying is I don't have the same confidence changing focus position on  the Sony as the Nikon. It just feels more delicate.

I tighten the Area-Swiss down tight.

Hope that explains what I'm trying to say.

I haven't noticed a battery drain on the M3 and 100-400 as yet.

Can you elaborate on the Single Point with Auto Expansion focus mode as I'm not sure which one that is?

Edit. Ok I just did a quick RTFM. I think they call it Expandable Flexible Spot on the A7RIII.


Last edited by MND on Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:53 am
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Ah OK, so you are worried about fragility of the lens mount - I get it now - you confused me with the use of the words push and pull initially. That was an issue in the original a7 series and was addressed in subsequent models. I don't think you need to worry too much about that. I don't like the sidekick though since it puts a lateral load on the lens mount which it was not designed for. Those mounts are designed for a vertical load and over time, you can induce a bit of warp into the collar that rotates the lens. Something like a Jobu Jr is better suited for these types of lenses or the Uniqball which can be used for anything.

It's the next option down after Single point AF and looks like the single point going Supernova :) In Sony language it is called Expand Flexible Spot which is similar to other manufacturer's single point AF with surrounding point AF assist. The other option to try is Lock-on AF: Flexible Spot S In that one you focus initially where you want to focus and then the camera is supposed to track that spot throughout the AF area.
 

by MND on Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:58 am
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Thanks E.J. I'll set it up using that for BIF. I'm hoping to get down to Conowingo soon to photograph the Eagles.
 

by signgrap on Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:04 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:It will be a while as it doesn't fit in my 2017 budget which at this point is already in the red but I do plan on getting one in early 2018.  . . . .
I assume then that you feel the improvements in functionality are sufficient even though image quality is basically the same as the a7RII?
I struggle with this question and need to hear from users that yes indeed the new camera provides enough improvements to make it worth the investment. . . .  Sitting on the fence trying to make up my mind or "How can I justify the cost to my wife".
Dick Ludwig
 

by MND on Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:32 pm
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There are so many incremental improvements over the A7Rii that make this a worthwhile upgrade.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:49 pm
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signgrap wrote:
E.J. Peiker wrote:It will be a while as it doesn't fit in my 2017 budget which at this point is already in the red but I do plan on getting one in early 2018.  . . . .
I assume then that you feel the improvements in functionality are sufficient even though image quality is basically the same as the a7RII?
I struggle with this question and need to hear from users that yes indeed the new camera provides enough improvements to make it worth the investment. . . .  Sitting on the fence trying to make up my mind or "How can I justify the cost to my wife".
In a word yes.  Almost all of the usability issues of the a7R II have been addressed.  And there is a slight IQ improvement at higher ISO.  
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:30 pm
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DPReview just named the a7r III Product of the year and it tied with the D850 for Camera of the year.
 

by Neilyb on Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:49 am
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoyUv8sHYQU

I am quite astounded that Eye AF works that well on the 85 1.2 L lens, which is over 10 years old now. I would love to see this thing in action with a Canon 400/500mm lens, not Eye AF but simply continuous focus capability. Count me in as being interested.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:58 pm
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The Eye autofocus is really remarkable with this camera, even with adapted lenses:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... oyUv8sHYQU
 

by Neilyb on Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:49 am
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E.J. Peiker wrote:The Eye autofocus is really remarkable with this camera, even with adapted lenses:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... oyUv8sHYQU
Sudden feeling of Deja Vu.... ;)
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:15 am
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LOL, for some reason your post didn't come up when I posted mine, must have been on a cached page.  Sorry about that :)

But hey, we agree, the Eye-AF is really good and now with an extra button, it's easy to assign that while still keeping rear button AF.  On the a7r II, the only way to do rear button AF and eye AF was to put the eye AF in an odd location.  Have you tried AF on any wildlife yet?
 

by Neilyb on Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:19 am
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I have not, but would love for someone with a mkIII to do a video using longer lenses. The 85mm 1.2 II is quite an old lens now so it gives me hope. Other problem here in Europe is actually getting your hands on an A7rIII.
 

by Scott Fairbairn on Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:45 pm
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I just picked up an A7R3 a few days ago. After the usual around the house dog photographs, I decided to try it out on Longtailed Ducks in flight. The equipment used was the Canon 400mmf4 DO II, Metabones IV(latest firmware) and A7RIII. I used Green Mode on the MBIV; the advanced mode is entirely useless.
All told, I spent a few frustrating hours attempting to photograph the ducks in flight.
My observations. Continuous AF is hopeless with the fast flying ducks. The acquisition is far too slow, and it simply cannot reacquire focus once it loses the subject.
I decided to try pre-focusing, and I had some success(as in 1 in a 100 frames were acceptable). It seems that the initial acquisition is the best it can do, after that it simply will not change focus quick enough to follow a bird flying towards you.
The few shots I did get were either from birds flying parallel to me or the first shot or two in a sequence. Nothing flying towards me was in focus. The AF isn't even close to being capable.
I did try slow flyers such as gulls against a clear sky, and it seemed to be able to handle that situation.
Next stop was perching birds like woodpeckers, cardinals, and sparrows. Once again the focus is slow, however, once locked on, the focus accuracy was dead on with nearly every image sharp. However, it's dog slow to focus if it starts substantially out of focus or in some cases, it didn't even try. In fact, it often took long enough that the birds were gone by the time it crawled to the correct distance.
I found it helpful when the focus was way off to manually focus the lens to get it close, then using autofocus.
I decided to try the continuous focus on cars moving at around 60km/h. Once again the initial focus seemed ok, but it couldn't track the cars driving towards me. So again, the first shot or two would be acceptable, but all others were soft.
So in summary, with that particular combo, the focus works but is very slow, and continuous focus worked only on very gradual distance changes. Hopefully, Metabones will come out with a firmware update(like they did for the A9) to improve things. Maybe a different lens will work better, I did try the Canon 100-400MarkII around the house, and but it seemed similar in behavior.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:18 pm
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Not surprising, Scott. You need a native lens for a real high success rate for something like that. You are trying to use lenses designed for off sensor phase detect on an on-sensor focusing camera. Lenses designed for these cameras use a completely different lens motor technology and many use two motors. You wouldn't have too much trouble with something slow and predictable but for something fast and unpredictable you have little chance.
 

by Scott Fairbairn on Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:18 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:Not surprising, Scott.  You need a native lens for a real high success rate for something like that.  You are trying to use lenses designed for off sensor phase detect on an on-sensor focusing camera.  Lenses designed for these cameras use a completely different lens motor technology and many use two motors.  You wouldn't have too much trouble with something slow and predictable but for something fast and unpredictable you have little chance.

Yes, I didn’t expect much but I keep hearing about how well adapted lenses work. Maybe the A9 is better, I don’t know. 
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:52 pm
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Scott Fairbairn wrote:
E.J. Peiker wrote:Not surprising, Scott.  You need a native lens for a real high success rate for something like that.  You are trying to use lenses designed for off sensor phase detect on an on-sensor focusing camera.  Lenses designed for these cameras use a completely different lens motor technology and many use two motors.  You wouldn't have too much trouble with something slow and predictable but for something fast and unpredictable you have little chance.
Yes, I didn’t expect much but I keep hearing about how well adapted lenses work. Maybe the A9 is better, I don’t know. 
They do work better and better with every generation and for most things there is no difference but BIF is a very specialized field and probably the single most taxing thing any AF system has to deal with.
 

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