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by ahazeghi on Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:06 pm
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I just published my review of the Canon EOS-5D MKIV, you can view it here if interested 

http://arihazeghiphotography.com/blog/e ... ld-review/
 

by Karl Egressy on Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:41 pm
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Thanks for the excellent in depth review, Ari.
I used mine mainly for static birds so far and I can see a big improvement over the Mark III.
Hope to get some chances to try it on fast flying birds soon. (Long-tailed Ducks and Mergansers)
 

by Mike in O on Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:52 pm
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Knowing how you are locked into the Canon ecosystem, which is very good, your conclusion talks like it is the only system. The Sony 99II is substantially faster with more resolution though I haven't tried it with BIF's yet since it has been snowing ever since it arrived. Compared to the 5DIII, the IV it seems like quite an improvement.
 

by ahazeghi on Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:16 pm
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Karl Egressy wrote:Thanks for the excellent in depth review, Ari.
I used mine mainly for static birds so far and I can see a big improvement over the Mark III.
Hope to get some chances to try it on fast flying birds soon. (Long-tailed Ducks and Mergansers)


Thanks Karl, Hope you get some good ones.  
 

by Neilyb on Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:48 am
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Great review, I will read again later. A few points I have noted with mine:

AF: is generally very snappy and fast, with new generation lenses, not so much with my old 500 f4. AF with a combined aperture of f8, great, finally a nice spread of AF points, make the 100-400 mkII a whole new beast.

AF in bad light: Now, Canon claim -4ev, but how do you quantify that? When I first got my hands on the body I went straight to the cemetery to shoot squirrels. I was having to shoot 1/250 sec at ISO3200, f4.... dark but not impossible, certainly not for m 1Dx. But I had ALOT of problems locking onto a squirrel sat still eating a nut, so I tried something more contrasty. Still hunting like mad. Center point managed but slowly, the rest did not lock (using 200-400 at f4) I was shocked. Canon tell me it was too dark. Their marketing claims are otherwise.

Shadow pulling and DR: Initially I was quite impressed, shadow noise is low compared to the 1Dx at low ISO'S. Once you get to ISO800 things change and the 1Dx takes over. But in some of my Gran Canaria shots I pulled up maybe 1-2 stops of shadows and boom, there were yellow bands right though the shot horizontally. Not all shots though. :( Example took at home with shadows at 100% in LR against an equal exposure: https://1drv.ms/i/s!AgXvrasKFmsVpSEyJxca1b3Yqu3F

The 5Dmk4 does not handle highlights at all brilliantly, in comparison to the aging A7R but then it does not handle shadows as well either :)

I will have a chance in Feb to test the AF with moving/flying subjects and cannot wait.
The rest is already covered, touch screen is one of those things you do not really need but end up using more and more. Wifi is, for me, unusable, neither my Android nor an iPad will connect anymore. But did in the beginning. :|

Battery life is pretty darn good, I shot 1600 images of squirrels and battery was still around 40% - I turn off all communication thingies though.

SD cards, Canon did not give us the latest in SD slots so we are limited to UHS-I. You can use UHS-II cards but they top out at UHS-I speeds. Not adding CFast was, for me, the biggest mistake Canon made. Having a 13-17 shot buffer with SD cards and an absolute max 22-25 shots with a 1066x CF card seems a little tight-fisted. Many will tell me (and have), since I have CF cards I do not have to spend extra but now if I need a bigger buffer I have to buy a new CF card rather than finally being able to buy more future proof CFast cards. I also need to buy either a faster CF card or (the fastest) UHS-I SD card to record 4K video (since with my 800 and 1000x cards it does not seem to work consistently.... I hope for a firmware update adding new Codecs!!

I had high hopes for the camera and wanted a body that could not only take great low ISO shots with DR that did not require fast (or any) AF but also double as a backup with my longer lenses. So I expected a compromise and that is what I got. Would love to have a Sony that could drive my tele's, then I have the absolute best of both worlds, but for now such a body remains a dream. The A7rII is close and were I not into wildlife would suffice (certainly AF with newer mkII lenses is impressive). The low pass filter does seem weaker on this body but it still does not capture the detail of either the Sony or 5DsR.

My conclusion is that landscape togs who want to stick with Canon should probably buy the 5DsR and work around the DR problem with HDR, the detail is unbeatable. Wildlife togs who mainly shoot in bad light may be better served with a used 1Dx. Of course having more resolution is nice when light is better... it is all about compromise! ;)
 

by ahazeghi on Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:03 pm
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Hi Neilyb, some of the issues you mention sound like operator error to me. You should have 0 problem locking AF in very low light at f/4 unless the AF setting is incorrect. I don't really notice that much of a difference between my 1DX, 1DX II and 5D4 in low light AF unless max aperture is f/8. Did you set the limiter switch correctly? what AF pattern were you using? 

 As for the yellow and purple band its not from the camera but from the ACR raw convertor that cannot handle the conversion correctly. For best results use either Canon's DPP or Capture One pro 10, it should go away. Finally, you are also using a pretty slow CF card, with a SanDisk Extreme Pro (UDMA7) you cab get up to 35 RAW files (DPR and DLO off). 



best
 

by Neilyb on Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:17 am
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ahazeghi wrote:Hi Neilyb, some of the issues you mention sound like operator error to me. You should have 0 problem locking AF in very low light at f/4 unless the AF setting is incorrect. I don't really notice that much of a difference between my 1DX, 1DX II and 5D4 in low light AF unless max aperture is f/8. Did you set the limiter switch correctly? what AF pattern were you using? 

 As for the yellow and purple band its not from the camera but from the ACR raw convertor that cannot handle the conversion correctly. For best results use either Canon's DPP or Capture One pro 10, it should go away. Finally, you are also using a pretty slow CF card, with a SanDisk Extreme Pro (UDMA7) you cab get up to 35 RAW files (DPR and DLO off). 



best
I am afraid I must disagree. The bands are visible in DPP also, one of the first things I checked.

As for low light focusing I am quite versed in taking pictures in low light (in Europe it is a needed skill), to the point I have used my 1Dx down to 1/200sec at ISO25600 at f4 in order to squeeze out a shot or two. The 1Dx rarely failed, even in near darkness.
To be sure I was not trying the impossible I did, on that day, try to focus on a high contrast subject (a spare CF card) and it still struggled. The black edges and light colored card should have been no problem. Tripod mounted. Live view focused slow but accurate. Either single point or single spot, I usually use single point for things that are not moving much.

I am using a Sandisk Extreme, 120MBs  as I refuse to buy a faster CF card only to see the next camera arrive with CFast. I will keep my money for something future proof. But I still only get up to 22 shots in a burst and I always turn off all corrections.

As I said, it is a compromise and if the bands become a problem I will send it to Canon, who think there is no problem at all. If Sony come up with a decent focusing body that work with tele's, this 5D will be sold in a second and I do not like selling stuff at a loss, but it will go. I never buy a new camera but this time I was needing one as my A7R was out for the count and 30MP was a good number of pixels for a good number of uses. Lesson learned.
 

by ahazeghi on Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:33 am
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That's weird. Would you care to post the CR2 file with the problem ? I am curious what is going on. The image is usually read in columns not in rows so it's unlikley  to have horizontal bands unless the camera is defective, like the color filter is bad. The banding in pervious 5D models was vertical for example.  I would send the camera back or return it, it seems no one else has reported this. 

In my hands the 5D4 focuses just fine in very low light at f/4, at f/8 it noticeably slows down compared to my 1DX2. It does sound strange to me though that you would bother taking a photo at 1/200sec ISO25K (of a squirrel?), I shoot low light a lot myself but the IQ will be dismal at such setting you mention simply because there are no photons to capture, focus or not it would be an instant delete for me :) ...plus I wouldn't use spot or even single point AF in such condition, use 4 or 8 pt AF exp. By using an expansion pattern, you increase chances that one of the points will lock.  It may not be as precise as a single point  but it makes no difference as the whole image will be somewhat soft and lacking given the poor SNR. I  guess your limiter switch may not be set and thus hunting, setting to the correct range should at least eliminate the rail to rail hunting.

You just mentioned you were using a 1066X card, those are Lexar cards not SanDisk. Any camera including the 1DX would lose continuous shooting depth with the the card you are using. The SanDisk Extreme line of products is made for consumers, as opposed to Extreme Pro which is the professional line. The Extreme cards are significantly slower (ignore the advertised speed) and also have worse reliability I wouldn't trust to put my photos on them. You are putting a slow card in the camera yet it still delivers more than the manufacturer's spec so that's not bad at all. 



hope this helps and good luck 


Last edited by ahazeghi on Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:05 pm
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Just FYI, when I got my EOS 1Ds Mk II, the first unit only read out every other horizontal line. The camera was immediately replaced by Canon.
 

by ahazeghi on Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:16 pm
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interesting, in the current 1D's it's vertical. I think they will take it back if he sends it in,  I would ask CPS to send a loaner so I can compare side by side when I am in doubt if my copy is bad. 
 

by Neilyb on Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:47 am
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ahazeghi wrote:That's weird. Would you care to post the CR2 file with the problem ? I am curious what is going on. The image is usually read in columns not in rows so it's unlikley  to have horizontal bands unless the camera is defective, like the color filter is bad. The banding in pervious 5D models was vertical for example.  I would send the camera back or return it, it seems no one else has reported this. 

In my hands the 5D4 focuses just fine in very low light at f/4, at f/8 it noticeably slows down compared to my 1DX2. It does sound strange to me though that you would bother taking a photo at 1/200sec ISO25K (of a squirrel?), I shoot low light a lot myself but the IQ will be dismal at such setting you mention simply because there are no photons to capture, focus or not it would be an instant delete for me :) ...plus I wouldn't use spot or even single point AF in such condition, use 4 or 8 pt AF exp. By using an expansion pattern, you increase chances that one of the points will lock.  It may not be as precise as a single point  but it makes no difference as the whole image will be somewhat soft and lacking given the poor SNR. I  guess your limiter switch may not be set and thus hunting, setting to the correct range should at least eliminate the rail to rail hunting.

You just mentioned you were using a 1066X card, those are Lexar cards not SanDisk. Any camera including the 1DX would lose continuous shooting depth with the the card you are using. The SanDisk Extreme line of products is made for consumers, as opposed to Extreme Pro which is the professional line. The Extreme cards are significantly slower (ignore the advertised speed) and also have worse reliability I wouldn't trust to put my photos on them. You are putting a slow card in the camera yet it still delivers more than the manufacturer's spec so that's not bad at all. 



hope this helps and good luck 
My cards are all Sandisk, I no longer use Lexar but never heard it said they were not for professionals (I know a few who use them). My point is this, why upgrade now to 1066x cards for a dying format?

Canon have had and reviewed my CR2 file and informed me that it was 'within tolerances for dark areas being pushed'... 'Shadow noise has been greatly improved over the 5dmk3...blah....' well I do not have noise, I have stripes across my image.

I was not shooting squirrels at ISO 25k I was infact shooting golden eagles and simply wanted some record shots of the behaviour. Point being the AF never missed, hunted or (as with the 5d4) started juddering (the problem is trying to replicate the behaviour).This was not only in very bad light, the juddering came back one day with wonderful flat diffuse conditions. The squirrel example is simply a day when I had the chance to put higher ISO to the test (I prefer not testing high ISO in good light, because I am more likely to need it in bad light).

It works great in good light, no question.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:58 am
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None of the test sites, even when using extreme ISOs, show a pattern noise like what you are describing therefore we can only conclude that there is something wrong with your camera.
 

by Neilyb on Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:18 am
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E.J. Peiker wrote:None of the test sites, even when using extreme ISOs, show a pattern noise like what you are describing therefore we can only conclude that there is something wrong with your camera.

Which is my conclusion also E.J. Unfortunately Canon are acting like nothing is wrong, which they have done before with new cameras...
 

by ahazeghi on Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:31 pm
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Hi Neliyb


I didn't say SanDisk is not for pros I use SanDisk myself.  I mentioned SanDisk Extreme Pro is the professional lineup. The card you are using is a consumer model.  It is slow. If you did a simple search on SanDisk's website you would have seen that the card's actual speed is at most only 85MB/sec during burst. https://www.sandisk.com/home/memory-car ... mpactflash 

I find it a bit odd that someone who pays $3500 for a camera is unwilling to pay 2% on top of that to buy a new card, but that's your choice. FYI, there is no such thing as "future proof" in tech, even if you bought the latest CFAST card today in 2 years it will be slow, low in capacity and obsolete worth $0. 

So you aren't going to post the CR2 files? I am actually not fully convinced the artifacts you mention is from the RAW until we can see what's going on in the RAW. The small JPEG crops you posted don't really tell much, it doesn't look the exposure was pushed that much... 

Just FYI, I tried my 5D4 with my 70-200 f/4  IS last night inside a dark room (exposure read 1/10sec at ISO 25K) and it had no problem locking AF, no hunting. It was too dark to take a video and show but it worked pretty well and quick I'd say. So you either have a really bad 5D4 that's outlier in every way or it's pilot errors :) Either way I hope you fix it, there is no point paying for something you aren't happy with. 

regards,
 

by Neilyb on Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:16 am
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I am not going to argue about cards, I have too many already and Canon could have upped the bar. Same with SD cards, UHS-1 for goodness sake...

I have a CR2 but am currently in bed with flu and not able to do more than reply.

FYI, Ihave tried various lenses in a darkened room and not experienced the same problems, even with a TC attached. Could just be a 200-400 problem.
 

by Neilyb on Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:31 am
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As promised.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9zjtla7myh3dq ... 3.CR2?dl=0
 

by ahazeghi on Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:10 pm
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Neilyb, hate to say but it does look like your sensor or the color filter has some kind of defect. I see purple stripes (although they are very subtle) and strangely they only show in the bottom 1/3 of the image and not anywhere else. The best thing to do is to get a loaner from CPS and do a side by side shootout. then send the results to CPS on an SD card with your camera and point out the difference. I am sure they will take some action.

best luck
 

by Neilyb on Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:22 am
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Thanks. I will send it in but CPS Germany will only loan me one of the repair takes over a certain time. They do not send out 'test' units. :(
 

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