Bird lens choice for Colombia

Hi Folks

It looks as though I will be heading to Colombia for ten days next month. Right now I am armed with my 7D2, 400/5.6, 500/4 v1, and 1.4x III

I am trying to figure out what, if any lenses might augment or substitute for these two, specifically for birds.

I feel that without IS, the 400/5.6 will be relatively useless. I will probably leave it at home.

The 500/4 v1 is my baby, but its big and heavy enough that I might not want to carry it around all the time. The trip is more birding- than photography-centric.

So, as I see it there are 3 options, all with IS to substitute for 400/5.6, and all smaller and more mobile than 500/4.

1) 100-400 II (could add my 1.4x in a pinch though f/8 in tropics is sssssslllllllloooooooowwwww)
2) 300 2.8 v1 (could use with my 1.4x and also pick up a 2x III - most birds will be stationary so slowed AF with 2x might not be a huge loss)
3) 400 DO II - the best, but by FAR the most expensive option.... (Could use with the 1.4x, don't think I'd need 2x with this)

I do think the 400/4 DO II would get quite a bit of use from me, possibly even replacing my 500/4 in many situations. I do quite a bit of travel, and getting close to birds in SoCal isn't a huge issue, its getting the hell away from people that presents more problems!

As I am waffling on what to do, any input would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Dorian

Dorian,

Are you looking to rent or buy a new lens?  If you purchase the 400 DO II are you then selling your 500/4?  If the 500/4 IS v1 is too heavy, an upgrade to the 500 II might be worth considering.  True, it is still a heavy lens but it might be a compromise for what you do at home versus what you need while traveling. 

Personally, a trip to Colombia for me would be a once in a lifetime trip and I'd be tempted to bring the very best lens I could afford, even if it was heavy and cumbersome.  The new IS system combined with f/4 max aperture and today's high ISO capabilties might make it possible to handhold in *some* lowlight conditions. 

I have never been to Colombia and therefore cannot comment on conditions.  For all I know reach isn't king there and paired with a 7DII perhaps it would be too much reach in many situations.  Now if you were mostly concerned with birding then the 100-400II would make the most sense...

Just rambling, I guess!

Hi Dorian,
Funny you should ask.  I own the 300 f2.8, the 400 f5.6 and the 600 f4.  I was just in a similar situation as you but Costa Rica.  Combination birding/photo trip.  I've been a couple times before and brought only the 300 f2.8 and converters and was always wishing for more reach.  The thought of lugging the 600 on long, always up and down hikes while birding just wasn't a choice even though at times I'd love to have had it.  This year I read a review by Aresh Hazeghi about the new 400 DO that you should read if you haven't.  
http://arihazeghiphotography.com/blog/c ... ht-lenses/
Having seen his work over the years I put more stock into it than most other reviews.  Thought long and hard about it and ended up biting the bullet and getting one.  I am so glad I did.  The lens performed quite similar to my 300 f2.8 but with more reach.  Sure I wished I had my 600 along as well but that just wasn't an option for me. I have no buyers remorse and can see more trips in my future with that lens instead of my 600 (which by the way I own't be selling any time soon)

Notes:  
I used it almost exclusively on the 1DX but did use it a little with my backup 7D2.  You will be limited to center point focus only with the 7D2 2X but what I most often use anyway.  Keep in mind you will have the field of view of almost 1300mm with the 2X.  I found the 7D2 to work very well with the 1.4.
Mostly used a tripod but handheld quite often with great results.  Nice to hand hold 800mm and get sharp images.
Focus tended to hunt once in a while with the 2X in low light/low contrast situations but to be expected at f8.  Still very good and not a big issue.

We were two couples birding shooting and my friend who was shooting with my brought that lens as well and both of us were quite happy with your decision.

If you want the versatility of both your 100-400 and a 500 and have it be very portable, take a look at the Sigma 150-600 Contemporary.  Yes the 150-600 Sport is a better lens but on a crop body the difference is not significant and it weighs a pound less than the Sport. 

A used 300 v2 with TCIII might be a good option, too, similar to the DOII in portability, but with closer MFD, the option to go 2.8 when needed, and cheaper than a new DO II, too.

Thanks for the input!

I have a hard time justifying getting the new 500/4 when its just 1.5lb lighter than the version I have now. A few push-ups would be a much cheaper fix to that problem! If I was gonna replace the 500, I'd get the new 600. Not for this trip, but eventually.

Same thing with the new 300/2.8, that only cut 0.5lb off the weight of the older version which itself is great and can be had for ~$2750 these days.

Who knows which way I'll go, just wanted to see what other folks thought.....

If it were me (but then I am poor) I would just keep your 500 f/4 and get the 100-400 II. That gives you all options from 100 to 1000mm, and from what I hear that new 100-400 is an awesome lens!  EJ's recommendation for the Sigma 150-600 is also a good one, but my test of the Sigma Sport here locally showed that it is significantly less sharp than my 500 f/4 (and yes it was fine tuned).

Dorian

All us Canon bird photographers are faced with nearly identical issues when traveling.  We've all been sorting this out as gear has evolved for 15 years.  Right now this is my preferred set up for travel, and I spent a month on the road with it:

Old 500 f 4 IS.  The new one isn't much lighter or better to warrant the extra $ IMO.  It has a pretty short MFD as compared especially to the 800mm.  It flies with the 1.4 and 2X.  I know, I used it as such for 8 years.  1.4 and 2 X for sure.  I have the version II.

New 100-400 II IS.  I have used this lens nearly exclusively since its invention, however, when I need that super reach nothing beats that 500mm with the 2X which renders an effective whopping 1600mm with the crop body 7D II.

A couple 7D II camera bodies.  I put the shorter rig onto a Cotton Carrier chest hanger and toss the 500mm rig over a shoulder.  With the great (IMO) high ISO performance of the 7D II, I no longer bring flash and all the components on trips.

That's it, two cameras, two lenses and a pair of TC's.  I don't even bring my 100mm macro & ringlight anymore because I can fake it pretty good with the insanely short MFD of the new 100-400 II, to me the best lens for my uses from Canon to date.
Older pic of me with similar set up I described.  I now use the 7D II instead of the Mark IV's shown, and have replaced my old 400mm f 5.6 with the 100-400 II.
 

Not sure what your itinerary is like, I went to the cloud forests in Ecuador visiting lodges. At the lodges I used the 500mm on hummingbirds trying to snap them on perches as they came into feeders. I often used the 500 with a 25mm extension tube. Also quite useful on the dawn chorus when birds were feeding around the lodge. I was always struggling for light shooting ISO3200 quite often with a 1D4. I'm assuming you may have similar conditions as Columbia is right next door.

For going on hikes I used a belt pack to carry my 300mm f4/1.4x and 1D4 around in a think tank digital holster, was really happy with that setup, very quick to get and the weight is on your hips where it belongs. Taking a tripod on the trails really wasn't an option, too narrow mostly and plenty of vines to catch tripod legs and in reality the birds were near impossible on the trails, way high, skittish and darn near impossible to tempt to come down.

So 90% of my bird shots were from around the lodges. Many of the lodges had light left on at night attracting moths so you had a huge number come in in the morning to feast and they were down low where you could shoot them. The other thing to look for is somewhere with a banana feeder which tends to bring in fruit eating birds all day. On the other side of the belt I had a shorter lens, water bottle carrier etc. You could do the same with a 100-400mm II, the lens is about the same size.

I mainly shot butterflies and other similar subjects on the walks except for specific ones where we were going to a hide or with a guide such as Angel Paz's antipitta tour. For them I used a tripod with the 300mm/1.4x as no flash was allowed and there was little light.

You mention your subject is birds, if you can buy the 400 DO II, it is a better long term investment especially if you move up to a pro body. I have consolidated my bird photography needs into just two lenses. the 400 DO II and the 600 II. together they cover from 400mm to 1200mm with rapid AF (on my 1DX bodies) for hand-holding in any light, any weather, any terrain. I was in Canada in Dec. and couldn't take my 600 due to limited overhead bin size in the CRJ aircraft plus my purpose of visit was not photography so I didn't want to carry my 600 around not knowing I'd use it or not. I fitted all of my gear in a small thinktank backpack, I photographed a variety of birds from eagles (example http://www.naturescapes.net/forums/view ... 3&t=261209 ) to this handsome woodpecker from Tim Zurowski's blind which he kindly shared with me. All in low light, and needless to say I didn't have a tripod. For the eagle shot I had to walk on snow/ice for about ~40 min. 

1DX 400 DO II + 1.4X III. ISO 1600. F/5.6. 1/200sec hand held.

If you have the money, I wouldn't buy a series I lens today. The difference isn't only in the weight (although a weight difference of even 1lb is quite significant if you hand hold your rig), but also in AF, especially with the extenders. The MKII lenses not only  focus faster with an extender but they are also sharper with series III extenders attached. Obsolete technology is always cheaper but it will also lose its value much faster with time. 

The series II lenses have great prices right now thanks to the weaker Yen in the past two years but with the current economic turmoil the Yen is going up again so the prices may adjust...    

Definitely Arash has and recommends the best.  A new 600mm II, a new 400 DO II, and a couple 1DX II bodies with the new TC's, oh yeah, baby, you be killin' it!
 
Pencils out to over $34,000 US at BH as of today.  Hey, if you can swing it, why not?

However, back to something more affordable, $1500 on a backup 7DII body, plus $2100 on a new 100-400 II IS, and stick with your current 500mm and TC, you will be styling in a reasonable fashion for $3600.  Almost 10X less.


I use the 7D II with the 100-400 II almost every day.  While it is not the best, it is pretty darn good for the money.  Here's a couple wild eagle shots I got here in San Diego a few days ago with that rig hand held, no blind, no bait.  Just sayin".

You've received some good advice on what various lenses are capable of but practically what you should do depend on your shooting situations. I read your OP again and you mention it is birding-centric, which to me is what my walks on the at the lodges were mostly like, under the canopy with pretty crappy photo ops. If you are staying at lodges with feeders your 500mm f4 will be about perfect, add an extension tube if the tiny woodstars are a possibility. For grab shots on trails the 100-400 II would be great. I'd hate to think you bought a mega expensive optic and carried it on the trails without getting and memorable shots. I don't know if you have ever done any closed canopy rainforest photography, it really is a different and challenging environment and the birds are rarely co-operative away from lodges or hides where they have been habituated.

Dorian Anderson wrote:Hi Folks

It looks as though I will be heading to Colombia for ten days next month. Right now I am armed with my 7D2, 400/5.6, 500/4 v1, and 1.4x III

I am trying to figure out what, if any lenses might augment or substitute for these two, specifically for birds.

I feel that without IS, the 400/5.6 will be relatively useless. I will probably leave it at home.

The 500/4 v1 is my baby, but its big and heavy enough that I might not want to carry it around all the time. The trip is more birding- than photography-centric.

So, as I see it there are 3 options, all with IS to substitute for 400/5.6, and all smaller and more mobile than 500/4.

1) 100-400 II (could add my 1.4x in a pinch though f/8 in tropics is sssssslllllllloooooooowwwww)
2) 300 2.8 v1 (could use with my 1.4x and also pick up a 2x III - most birds will be stationary so slowed AF with 2x might not be a huge loss)
3) 400 DO II - the best, but by FAR the most expensive option.... (Could use with the 1.4x, don't think I'd need 2x with this)

I do think the 400/4 DO II would get quite a bit of use from me, possibly even replacing my 500/4 in many situations. I do quite a bit of travel, and getting close to birds in SoCal isn't a huge issue, its getting the hell away from people that presents more problems!

As I am waffling on what to do, any input would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Dorian

Hi Dorian,
   As a non-Canon user who has never been to Columbia, I was hesitant to write a comment.  However, your question as well as the resulting comments really
are relevant to any "once in a lifetime" trip that I or anyone would do.  It is interesting that a number of comments address the "cost" issue, however also important is the weight. It would be interesting to hear the total weights of the different combinations that people are suggesting. Will you be taking internal flights?  If so, are there weight restrictions on carry-on luggage for those flights (my next trip is also coming up and the internal flight to Borneo has a carry-on limit of 15 pounds)?  What scares me the most on plane travel these days is being forced to check an expensive lens, resulting in either damage or theft (something that has happened to friends of mine).  Trying to balance cost, ability to shoot in low light conditions often found on these trips as well as weight is a real juggling act these days as we pack for our far away adventures!
Looking forward to hearing what you decide and seeing your pics,
ricardo