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by Neilyb on Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:44 am
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I am a Canon shooter, I have Canon lenses. However, I have seen the files from a D810 and my jaw dropped. The detail is amazing and the amount of leeway you have in post is very appealing, especially for shadows and not killing highlights.

I am not going to jump ship just yet, the Canon 200-400 is an amazing lens and does things the Nikon cannot do. But I am very tempted by the Sony sensor for our upcoming trips, certainly for landscapes and the D810 is not cheap, especially if i need to add a lens.

My options therefore are:

a) find a used D800e and 14-24 lens
b) Sony A7r, but which lens (adapted 14-24 or maybe a Canon 16-35 f4)?
c) Wait and see if the new Canon bodies can compete with the Sony sensors for all that shadow pulling (I have used Canon for years, so I am 99% certain that will not be the case).

Users of both Sony and Nikon systems, how do the files compare from both systems when PPing? The A7r would also be adaptable to my other lenses at a push, though it would be my landscape/walkabout camera.

Thanks.
 

by Mike in O on Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:14 pm
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I would wait for the new generation of Sony cameras which will be coming down the line shortly before making any decisions. If you want a large all around camera, I don't think the 810 can be beat at this time. It will be interesting to see how the 50mpix Canon stacks up (I am sure pretty well except for DR).
 

by E.J. Peiker on Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:27 pm
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a) It's an option but the lens is difficult to polarize
b) It's an option that would also allow you to use your Canon lenses with an adapter
c) From what Canon has stated, the dynamic range is not changed from previous Canon bodies. The pixel pitch is identical to the 7D Mk II sensor indicating that in all likelihood it is the same sensor technology scaled to full frame.

For a walking around camera the 7D Mk II might be a better camera. The a7R is best when mounted on a very sturdy tripod due to it's lack of an electronic first curtain and significant shutter shake.
 

by Neilyb on Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:17 pm
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Thanks. As I mentioned I have doubts about the new 5Ds, just as I will not buy a 7DII... having had one for a short time. Perhaps an A7RmkII is in the pipeline, I can wait a while, our planned trip to Norway will be a summer holiday and easter is perhaps not concrete.

I am aware of the limitations of the Nikon 14-24, but there are solutions. My other choice would be the 16-35 f4, as my 17-40 is of no use on anything more than the 1Dx.

I am aware of the A7r and shutter vibration but thought it was be more noticable from tripod than handheld?
 

by tedculotta on Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:37 pm
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I am pondering a similar decision. I was waiting for the 5Ds/r announcement and am now looking at the A7r to use with my Canon lenses. I have decided to take an A7r with me on a trip at the end of March-beginning of April to Antelope Valley Poppy Reserve, Mojave NM, and Ring of Fire State Park. The 50MP on the new 5D sounds nice, but the DR of the Sony sensors seems more attractive to me. I'll be happy to let people know what I think after the trip. Note that I am not planning to use the A7r in any instances where I will need AF; it will be strictly landscape and scenic related shots.

Cheers
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by Dave Courtenay on Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:37 pm
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I think there are lots of people in your position, Even Nikon users who want the pixels and IQ but in a smaller package i.e Sony A7, Fuji XT1 style, Hope that Nikon and Canon can remove their heads from their butts sometime soon

Dave
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by E.J. Peiker on Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:54 pm
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FWIW - On my last landscape workshop that I held there were 5 Canon shooters, all but one shot the landscapes with an a7R and their Canon lenses!
 

by bradmangas on Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:24 pm
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I made the switch from Canon to Nikon When the D800e came out and have never regretted it. That said, it will demand you become a much more astute photographer. Don't think just because you have lots of megapixles your images will improve, they will not unless you do everything possible to take advantage of such detail. Even then I believe the D800 family are better cameras than most owners are photographers.

One of the main benefits of the D800/e and now the D810 I'm sure as well is the astonishing dynamic range it is capable of. With just a few minor post processing adjustments such as highlights and shadows you easily have 9+ stops of dynamic range in one exposure. If shooting at a low iso which for the D800 family is anything up to around the 32oo iso range a 9+ stop single exposure is truly amazing. In my opinion you will not go wrong with a D800, D800e, or D810. Keep an eye on the Nikon Store for refurbished D800's.

As for the mirrorless cameras out there such as the Sony ar7 I am not sold on them. Keep in mind mirrorless cameras have been around for a long time. Every point and shoot is a mirrorless camera. Sure these new lines of mirrorless have interchangable lenses but lack on the longer telephoto options. There claim to fame seems to be the small size. If you have to buy adapters to use a full line up of Canon or Nikon Lenses you now have adapters plus big lenses on them. Seems to be counter productive to the reason one would own one. You may lose a little camera weight but you actually gain nothing.
 

by Mike in O on Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:12 pm
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bradmangas wrote:I made the switch from Canon to Nikon When the D800e came out and have never regretted it. That said, it will demand you become a much more astute photographer. Don't think just because you have lots of megapixles your images will improve, they will not unless you do everything possible to take advantage of such detail. Even then I believe the D800 family are better cameras than most owners are photographers.

One of the main benefits of the D800/e and now the D810 I'm sure as well is the astonishing dynamic range it is capable of. With just a few minor post processing adjustments such as highlights and shadows you easily have 9+ stops of dynamic range in one exposure. If shooting at a low iso which for the D800 family is anything up to around the 32oo iso range a 9+ stop single exposure is truly amazing. In my opinion you will not go wrong with a D800, D800e, or D810. Keep an eye on the Nikon Store for refurbished D800's.

As for the mirrorless cameras out there such as the Sony ar7 I am not sold on them. Keep in mind mirrorless cameras have been around for a long time. Every point and shoot is a mirrorless camera. Sure these new lines of mirrorless have interchangable lenses but lack on the longer telephoto options. There claim to fame seems to be the small size. If you have to buy adapters to use a full line up of Canon or Nikon Lenses you now have adapters plus big lenses on them. Seems to be counter productive to the reason one would own one. You may lose a little camera weight but you actually gain nothing.
My nex 7 mirrorless  can use my 600f4 with no problems.
 

by Neilyb on Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:01 am
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E.J. Peiker wrote:FWIW - On my last landscape workshop that I held there were 5 Canon shooters, all but one shot the landscapes with an a7R and their Canon lens
Seems we are all in the same boat. :)
 

by Neilyb on Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:37 am
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I will also throw the A7mkII into the mix, if it will stabilize an adapted Canon lens?

Edit: as the A7 is 600€ cheaper than the A7II this might be the better landscape option.... but only because i am cheap :)
 

by Mike in O on Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:41 am
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It will stabilize any lens, you can set the focal length manually.
 

by Neilyb on Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:28 am
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Sony really are trying. :)
 

by sdaconsulting on Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:43 am
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Mike in O wrote:It will stabilize any lens, you can set the focal length manually.
You don't have to input the focal length for Canon lenses on the Metabones adapter. It sends that info to the camera.

The Sony branded Alpha adapters do the same. Not sure what other adapters have that functionality.
Matthew Cromer
 

by Mark Picard on Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:13 pm
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Neilyb wrote:
I am aware of the limitations of the Nikon 14-24, but there are solutions. 
I know it's a little off thread, but what do you mean by this?
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by Neilyb on Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:33 pm
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Mark, as E.J mentioned filters are not easy to attach but adaptors are available. http://www.nagelphotography.com/blog/20 ... -the-14-24 for example.
 

by Mark Picard on Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:37 pm
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Neilyb wrote:Mark, as E.J mentioned filters are not easy to attach but adaptors are available. http://www.nagelphotography.com/blog/20 ... -the-14-24  for example.


I have that lens (for sale now in NSN) and I use the Fotodiox filters with great success. I have a CP and 2 NDs with it. That kit works slick.
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by Neilyb on Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:45 am
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I think I have decided on the A7r. Primarily for landscape I am not sure about investing in Nikon, Nikon glass while still keeping my Canon tele's and 1Dx running too. But which lens for the A7r and which adapter? I am currently considering the Canon 16-35 f4, it is sharp. My 17-40 I am sure will not resolve the 36MP sensor. :|
 

by rnclark on Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:42 am
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There seems to be some confusion on dynamic range in this thread. Above about ISO 400 Canon cameras have equal or better dynamic range than the Sony/Nikon cameras. For example, the 7D2 has greater than 9 stops (DXO metric) up to ISO 6400, and 11.9 stops at ISO 200. My measurement of the Nikon D800 at ISO 200 is 13.5 stops (DXO metric), or only 1.6 stops greater, and some of that increased dynamic range is filtering of the raw data in the camera.

A lot of the problems people have with Canon perceived dynamic range is post processing methods. This is due to the large offset Canon applies to the raw file to be certain no data gets clipped below zero (Nikon D800/800e clips the low end). If one similarly filters the raw data and properly accounts for the offset, the two systems are much closer. Here is an article I wrote on the subject:
http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/can ... ocessing1/
Note this example is an indoor/outdoor scene; I could not find a higher dynamic range image in my set of tens of thousands outdoor scenes. If you look through the dpreview comments on their 7D2 review where dpreview compared a Nikon to the 7D2 with horrible results, I processed their 7D2 file and showed similar dynamic range and shadow detail as the nikon.

There are much cheaper solutions than buying high megapixel cameras: simply learn to do mosaics. The software is amazing. Mosaics work hand held as well as on a tripod. A simple 4-frame mosaic with a 20-megapixel camera results in more pixels and more resolution on the subject than a 50 megapixel camera single frame. Plus by doing a multi-frame mosaic, one is using a longer focal length lens with a larger clear aperture, thus collecting more light onto the effectively larger sensor, thus producing an image with better signal-to-noise ratio.

On my recent Tanzania trip I did many mosaics, even moving animals. For example, I was photographing elephants then noticed a giraffe drinking very close by. No time to change lenses or even grab the other camera, so I did a mosaic at 10 frames/second. It will be about a 100 megapixel final image! I also have a cheetah chase depth-of-field mosaic (coming soon).

With some experience, mosaics can be done just about anytime. I use PTGui pro for making mosaics.

Roger
 

by signgrap on Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:22 am
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Neilyb wrote:I think I have decided on the A7r. Primarily for landscape I am not sure about investing in Nikon, Nikon glass while still keeping my Canon tele's and 1Dx running too. But which lens for the A7r and which adapter? I am currently considering the Canon 16-35 f4, it is sharp. My 17-40 I am sure will not resolve the 36MP sensor. :|
I own an a7R and have been pleased with it but there a number of things that they fixed in the a7II e.g. electronic shutter and much improved AF in low light. So if I were you I'd wait for the a7RII which, if the rumors are correct, should be out in the next 3-6 months if you can wait. The shutter in the a7R is very loud and vibrates the camera when opening and closes which can cause soft images unless proper technique and sturdy tripod are used. I use my camera mostly for landscapes shot at ISO 80 so you get great DR. I used a lot of my Canon lenses (vintage 2005-2008) with a Metabones adapter which works well BUT AF is very slow. As far as Sony lenses go I'd get the new Zeiss primes made in Sony FE mount if you are after high resolution images. I own the 55mm f1.8 Zeiss lens and it is extremely sharp. Take a look at E.J.'s website as he has reviews of the a7R http://www.ejphoto.com/Quack%20PDF/Sony%20Alpha%207R%20Review.pdf 
and of the Zeiss 24-70 zoom http://www.ejphoto.com/Quack%20PDF/Sony-Zeiss%2024-70mm%20Review.pdf 
Dick Ludwig
 

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