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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:32 pm
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I have a friend who has been into nature photography for just a few years now.  He started with the T1i and did enjoy it.  Recently he used his tax return to upgrade to the 7D.

He was elated to receive it this last week but soon learned it had two problems:

A.  It had problems with close focusing but he said he has corrected it with the free auto fine tuning technique that was posted here on NSN  a few days ago (and that I relayed to him).  So this problem seems to be corrected.

B.  Noise:  This is the more disturbing of the two problems.  Could you folks please start a discussion about the Canon 7D body.....related to noise?

Here are some questions I might have regarding this:

1.  Have any of you had this issue and what did you do about it?

2.  Is it's noise level normal for average DSLR's?

3.  At what ISO does it appear to occur?

4.  Is there any way to correct this?

None of us like noise in our DSLR images.  With my D300 it seems "tolerable" to me........"kicking in" at about 800.  At least that is what it looks like to me.........now maybe 640, all dependent on light intensity I believe.  I can tolerate that.  I know in order to change it I have to significantly upgrade my body.  Ok.

Now, on the other hand, if I had a DSLR body that had an "unreasonably annoying" noise issue I would not be a happy camper.....not at all.

Any comments you have would be appreciated.  He is a young man who has persisted (self-teaching) at becoming a most knowledgeable, amateur ornithologist and has had his heart set on a 7D for a couple of years now.  

You might want to check out his work at Flickr'.  His name is Noah Gibb.  So it would be "Noah Gibb" in the search box.....not Noah Gigg photo stream.

Thanks for the advice folks.
Robert
 

by Scott Fairbairn on Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:45 pm
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1)If you are going to use the 7D , and you don't like noise in your images, then you need to also use a noise reduction program such as Noise Ninja, Topaz deNoise, or even photoshop NR.
2) If you are comparing to full frame, then yes this is normal, but the 7D is well known for noisy images, even at ISO400.
3) If you want to minimize it, shoot at 200 ISO as noise becomes visible rapidly above this.
4) No, buy a different camera such as a full frame. Canon's sensors are in the dark ages so high megapixels on a small sensor are going to generate noise.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:54 pm
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The 7D is simply the noisiest DSLR currently on the market at the pixel level. ISO 320 is the outer limit IMHO for good image quality and it is already pretty noticeable there but not overly objectionable. ISO640 is usable but with some serious compromises in dynamic range and shadow detail due to noise. The camera has almost no underexposure latitude because any boost in exposure in post processing exacerbates the noise issue.

The sensor technology in the 7D is ancient by semiconductor standards. It is a small pixel on a now 4 generation old process technology using a way out of date image processing engine. Current technology cameras with smaller pixels are significantly better. NR programs can help especially on large solid color surfaces but the noise in the shadows or darker areas is very objectionable and kills detail and if you try to use NR on that, it kills it even farther.

As for the focusing issue, either a calibration issue or user issue since close up subjects tend to not have a lot of DOF. The 7D AF system is pretty capable except for things that are moving pretty fast and in a complex manner.
 

by John Guastella on Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:54 pm
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Could you folks please start a discussion about the Canon 7D body.....related to noise?
You've got to be kidding. There are a million discussions about the Canon 7D "noise problem" in every camera gear forum on the internet. The last thing we need is another one.

John
 

by Brian E. Small on Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:00 pm
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Quite simply I sold the camera shortly after buying it because of noise.  I don't think there's much the user can do in-camera about it.
 

by signgrap on Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:25 pm
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If your primary use of the 7D is with low ISO, below 400, than the 7D produces great files. However if you increase the ISO to obtain faster shutter speeds e.g. for use with telephotos, then the 7D noise becomes a problem for most people.
Dick Ludwig
 

by Scott Fairbairn on Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:31 pm
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Yes, it is pretty much an ISO400 or less camera. Under the right conditions you can get away with 800, but a NR program is needed.
 

by OntPhoto on Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:34 pm
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Buy the 7D MK2 :-) I'm not kidding....it's the camera I'm waiting for. I may have to wait till the end of summer though. Of course I have no idea how noisy or noise-free that camera will be compared to the current 7D. As had been said many times about the 7D, use noise reduction software and resize if you can. I played with a 7D when it first came out and found even images at ISO 2000 worked nicely if exposed right (ETTR) along with noise reduction.
 

by Vertigo on Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:28 am
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As has been said before, the 7D at the pixel level has about the same noise level as the D300, but the noise pattern is more noticeable, less natural, when looking at 100% images. However, because the 7D is very densely packed with pixels (only the latter D3200, D5200 and D7100 are denser), one should not compare 100% images of the 7D to DSLRs with less pixels. Look at 50% images or a print, the noise is mostly gone. If you do not crop the images too much, you can get good images with this body above iso 800 and up to iso 1600 with a little tweaking in the standard noise module of LR4.
FWIW, here's one at iso 800 : http://www.flickr.com/photos/14868106@N ... 0093107150
Another one at iso 1600 : http://www.flickr.com/photos/14868106@N ... 0093107150

Have fun with your 7D, it's a great body.
 

by Colin Inman on Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:30 am
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There was the issue of using iso settings at 'in-between' stops (+/- 1/3 stop from the main iso settings) - were they simulated in software rather than true hardware amplification - or some similar story. At any rate the effect was that at one in-between stop was noisier than the 'main' iso settings, the other cleaner but at a cost of dynamic range.
Colin
 

by hullyjr on Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:34 pm
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I've been using a 7D since it was first available. It has proved very reliable & very capable, more so in every respect to the noise monster it replaced, the 50D. I can live with the 7D noise but I've tired of the brittle dynamic range and the way reds just turn to mush. Canon has a great opportunity to capture the market for serious amateur nature photographers with a well-designed 7D replacement. It is not clear to me if Nikon is interested in a high-end or pro-specified DX body which leaves the door open for Canon. I'm not interested in jumping to full frame so I hope there will be a genuine replacement for the 7D. I still think there is a market for a replacement for the 1D Mark IV.
 
Matching the competition with a 24MB sensor aad tweaking a few other features is not going to cut it but I feel that is exactly what we will get. Pixels with better dynamic range and better noise control are more important than the number of pixels. If Sony can make these kind of improvements so can you Canon. Higher fps is great but only if matched to a suitably deep buffer. More focusing points is better but only if they cover more of the frame and at least one is compatible with f/8. The dedicated battery grip should be of the similar quality & must duplicate all the buttons of the camera. And there is no reason why cameras should not be more customizable, not just a few buttons. If I attach the 500mm f/4 lens I want the camera to apply a specific set of settings, and I would love to see eye-control return!. This is not rocket science, these are simple marketing decisions. Canon, you need to excite me with products that I WANT to buy. How I miss Contax...
 
I'm in the process of selling most of my Canon gear, except those I use for photographing birds. My m43 gear does a great job for everything else and my wife loves using the system. It has been a few years since I bought anything new from Canon and with my eye on the used 1D mark IV market, I don't see that changing any time soon.
 
Cheers,
 
Jim
Jim Hully
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Images now at https://www.flickr.com/photos/138068378@N06/
 

by Colin Inman on Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:03 pm
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Have a look at this recent thread - particularly Royce post - http://www.naturescapes.net/forums/view ... ise+iso+7d
Colin
 

by Neilyb on Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:42 pm
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I too fell, after 2 years plus that the 7D served its purpose well but could have been better from the start, simply with a lower res sensor. Should Canon choose to go 24MP they will have to prove it (and I do not mean the fan boys on POTN posting their amazing noise free ISO6400 shots) can handle noise and DR far better than the old 7D.
That said the 1DmkIV is also old tech and not light years ahead of the 7D for noise.... the 7D's strong point is that resizing down can help.
 

by Karl Egressy on Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:36 pm
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I'm also waiting for the new 7D.
I feel that they should go to lower MP for example 14 or 16, other than going higher.
We don't need higher megapixel, we need far less noise.
 

by OntPhoto on Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:31 pm
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Karl Egressy wrote:I'm also waiting for the new 7D.
I feel that they should go to lower MP for example 14 or 16, other than going higher.
We don't need higher megapixel, we need far less noise.
Although it's still really early and any rumoured specs is speculation, I see numbers like 24mp mentioned.  Hope not.
 

by Neilyb on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:08 am
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Unfortunately it will have to compete with Nikon, namely famed D400 and new D7100...so any hope of 14mp is gone I fear.
 

by Colin Inman on Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:11 am
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Of course you could always down res to 14mpix, it's an extra step and might not be as good as could be achieved with a native lower resoloution sensor, but it's an option
Colin
 

by Scott Fairbairn on Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:18 am
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I don't think canon has the sensor technology to up the megapixels right now. Not if they want to keep noise down at least. Improving the dynamic range doesn't seem likely for them at this point either.
 

by john on Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:31 pm
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I have had the same frustration as most other people with this camera.  I consider 640 its max with some light noise reduction.  Sometimes the light is bad and there is no choice but to go higher and then it seems very inconsistent with how much noise shows up in the shadows.  At times its a lost cause trying to remove it and other times I can run it through NIK auto NR and tweak it by tuning both sliders down and first using the color NR slider until that disappears and then slowly bring up the contrast NR slider until it starts to smear the fine details and then backing off a bit.  I find my 40D much easier to deal with noise up to 800 ISO and it is not near as bad with color noise!
 

by Kari Post on Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:36 am
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I wasn't happy with the noise on my 7D and found I rarely used it much because of that. Using the native smaller sized RAW file (I think there is a 10MP option) makes the noise more tolerable, but you end up with a smaller file. The other alternative is to down res the final image.

Sorry there isn't a better solution. This is one case where I think Canon packed too many pixels onto a small sensor. It would be a much better and more usable camera if it was 14MP I think.
Kari Post, former NSN Editor 2009-2013
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