7D Questions to be answered

liquidstone wrote: Based on capturing and processing in DPP many RAWs with a beta 7D, here are my impressions on the camera's noise characteristics. Note that this is a result of my subjective "visual feel," and not based on objective scientific testing or numbers.

2.1. ISO 100 is very clean and can take aggressive sharpening before noise starts to be noticeable in the shadows.

2.2. ISO 200 - 400 are not as clean when compared pixel-to-pixel as those of my 5D2, 40D, 1D2 and 20D. Noise (albeit very fine grained) starts to be noticeable in the shadows with aggressive sharpening.

2.3. ISO 3200 - 6400 have fine grained noise, but none of the banding I see in the 5D2. Even ISO 12800 has no or very little banding, but the noise grains seem to be larger, and as such this ISO is perhaps only useable for smaller prints or for greatly resized web photos.

2.4. I'm under the impression that the 7D's noise charateristics are optimized for print rather than pixel-peeping at 100%. I welcome this approach, as we can easily filter out the noise when posting web-sized photos. I haven't printed 7D photos yet, but when I compare these to my previous photos which were printed large, the 7D's fine-grained noise should do well in printing.

This is what I am pondering right now, just looking and comparing files at 100% isn't good enough unless the file sizes are equalized. I've done a couple of comparisons now, and when I've equalized the subject size, the 7D files look quite good. But is a bit disconcerting when pixel peeping at 100% magnification. Did you notice the fps slow down in your testing?

FYI, there is some preliminary (i.e., beta) support for the 7D in Camera Raw 5.5 / Lightroom 2.5. Please note that the support is preliminary, so things like white balance, color profiles, etc. aren't finalized. But at least you can open and process files with these tools if that happens to be what you prefer to use.

Scott, what shutter speeds were you shooting at? Typically you might need at least 1/250 if not more to keep the fps up, but perhaps you're noticing something else. UDMA card I'm assuming?

Greg Schneider wrote:Scott, what shutter speeds were you shooting at? Typically you might need at least 1/250 if not more to keep the fps up, but perhaps you're noticing something else. UDMA card I'm assuming?

It says in the manual that 8fps is not possible in dimly lit conditions irregardless of the shutter speed. I tried just shooting in manual , and it is much slower in dim conditions no matter the shutter speed.

Scott / Greg, I also found the same issue with a noticeable drop in frame rate on the 50D when shooting in low light / high ISO - even wide open (f/2) and at fast shutter speeds (1/1250+), it still lagged.

Someone mentioned to me that the 50D FPS rating was truly a "max" not a constant frame rate, tested at a "base" ISO setting. The high ISO resulted in a larger image size, buffer size decreases, efficiency dropped and the camera couldn't keep up.

Whether there's any truth to that (or this is info you've already heard), I don't know.

Scott Fairbairn wrote:

Greg Schneider wrote:Scott, what shutter speeds were you shooting at? Typically you might need at least 1/250 if not more to keep the fps up, but perhaps you're noticing something else. UDMA card I'm assuming?

It says in the manual that 8fps is not possible in dimly lit conditions irregardless of the shutter speed. I tried just shooting in manual , and it is much slower in dim conditions no matter the shutter speed.

Yeah, I found this irritating with the 50D. Set to 1/8000sec in manual, and the FPS still drops.

I am going to play with that a bit more, it bothers me that it is an advertised spec, but is only possible in a specific range of conditions. Kind of how the frame rate of the 40D was overrated as well.

Scott Fairbairn wrote:I am going to play with that a bit more, it bothers me that it is an advertised spec, but is only possible in a specific range of conditions. Kind of how the frame rate of the 40D was overrated as well.

Isn't that true of the max frame rate of every camera? I didn't think they spec'ed them in tough light conditions with continuous auto-focus - that would seem to almost always slow things down. But I don't have much experience with various SLRs.

dbostedo wrote:Isn't that true of the max frame rate of every camera? I didn't think they spec'ed them in tough light conditions with continuous auto-focus - that would seem to almost always slow things down. But I don't have much experience with various SLRs.

Well, the frame rate on Nikons will slow down for AF reasons but in manual focus mode you can always get the full frame rate -- i.e. it will not slow down as a direct result of the low light.

Scott Linstead wrote:

dbostedo wrote:Isn't that true of the max frame rate of every camera? I didn't think they spec'ed them in tough light conditions with continuous auto-focus - that would seem to almost always slow things down. But I don't have much experience with various SLRs.

Well, the frame rate on Nikons will slow down for AF reasons but in manual focus mode you can always get the full frame rate -- i.e. it will not slow down as a direct result of the low light.

Good point - I would assume that you'd get the full frame rate in MF mode and with a fast enough shutter speed regardless of light conditions. Heck, I assume you'd get it with the lens cap on if you were using MF and a fast enough shutter. Stinks if you don't. I wonder if this is intentional like Canon's disabling of auto-focus at higher f/stops to, I guess, avoid user frustration with bad performance.

Yeah, it does seem in line with their design philosophy -- they don't let the hardware itself limit the performance of the camera but rather incorporate a kind of limiter -- as you say, much like the AF with higher f-stops

I just read something interesting....of all places, on the canonrumours website. http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-7d-mini-review

"8 Frames Per Second
The camera is capable of 8 frames per second bursts. I do want to note that there are situations you won’t get the full 8fps. The following is from the manual of the 7D (page 93 USA/Canada).

- When the battery level is low, the continuous shooting speed will be slightly slower.
- In the AI Servo AF mode, the continuous shooting speed may become slightly slower depending on the subject and lens used.
- In low-light areas or indoors, the continuous shooting speed may become slower even if a fast shutter speed is set.

From Canon Tech Support in regards to the slowing of frame rate
The slowdown of the frame rate is because of Canon’s new metering system. Frame rate is sacrificed in favor of metering accuracy.

Workaround?
If you use exposure lock, the camera will ignore the above and shoot at the desired 8fps." - CR website

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It's hard to tell from the above whether the "workaround" was recommended by the Canon Tech or the guy who runs that CR website. I called and spoke to someone at the tech line (is this a Canon Tech or someone who tries to answer technical questions?) and the person said the 8fps is just the "maximum" fps you can obtain with the 7D. I think what the person is trying to convey is that you can shoot up to 8fps. There are situations, as clearly stated in the manual where 8fps may not be obtained. So, I'm guessing that last part about the "workaround" was from the guy who runs the CR website and not from a Canon Tech. If it actually was from a Canon Tech, then it simply means that to obtain the maximum fps in a shooting situation it would help to shoot in manual mode so the exposure is set and the camera doesn't have to perform that extra function thus optimizing your fps.

Or shoot in manual which is probably what you should be doing anyway in fast action to keep the exposure from varying from frame to frame

E.J. Peiker wrote:Or shoot in manual which is probably what you should be doing anyway in fast action to keep the exposure from varying from frame to frame

frame rate still drops in manual mode see above.

milmoejoe wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:Or shoot in manual which is probably what you should be doing anyway in fast action to keep the exposure from varying from frame to frame

frame rate still drops in manual mode see above.

From what I read, there's more than one factor influencing the frame rate. Perhaps what is meant is to lock exposure to obtain the maximum fps in a given shooting situation? I'm going to contact Canon and see what they have to say about it. On the 40D, certain older type lenses did not obtain the maximum fps.

OntPhoto wrote:

milmoejoe wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:Or shoot in manual which is probably what you should be doing anyway in fast action to keep the exposure from varying from frame to frame

frame rate still drops in manual mode see above.

From what I read, there's more than one factor influencing the frame rate. Perhaps what is meant is to lock exposure to obtain the maximum fps in a given shooting situation? I'm going to contact Canon and see what they have to say about it.

Does it do any metering in full manual mode? Does it have some feature where it can adjust ISO or exposure comp even in manual mode? Otherwise, why would you have to lock the exposure when shooting in manual?

A question I have is, "Where is the vertical grip ?" I can't find it in Canadian stores, and they won't take an order for one. It isn't listed at B&H either?

Big thread on DPReview from a guy that works in a camera store where 2 of 3 had focusing issues out of the box. Anybody experience any focus issues that already has the camera?

There's also a thread about the 5DMark 3..........

Scott Fairbairn wrote:There's also a thread about the 5DMark 3..........

Not sure I get your point. Just because one thread is stupid speculation or made up crap, that does not mean another one is.