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by Wildflower-nut on Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:54 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
Scott Fairbairn wrote:
Wildflower-nut wrote:
Any comments about when enough is enough mega pixels for FF and when you need to move to medium format?




I forget whose video I saw it, but apparently using the 16 image stack feature will eat up nearly 2 gigabytes of card space. Sony needs to do some serious work on developing a lossless compressed raw file if that is the case. 


Yeah that's about right 16 shots at 125MB each = 2GB

Shooting in compressed (lossy) you would pretty much cut that in half.

The crazy thing is that the Fuji GFX 100 100 megapixel, 16 bit capture lossless compressed files are smaller than the 61megapixel Sony 14bit
uncompressed RAWs.



in terms of sharp large prints, is the sony going to be better than the fuji 50mp medium format?
 

by E.J. Peiker on Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:07 pm
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Wildflower-nut wrote:
in terms of sharp large prints, is the sony going to be better than the fuji 50mp medium format?


That's one of the items I plan on testing.
 

by Primus on Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:35 am
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Looking forward to that one EJ

One thing that would obviously affect the 'sharpness' would be the lens used. That is always a bit harder to compare, but given that most of us would use a Sony lens with the A7r4, if that combo works well then that would be a huge bonus. My problem with MF was not so much the resolution or sharpness of the images, it was the inability to capture sharp images easily and consistently -  not enough stabilization or ISO related issues requiring very long exposures or shallow DOF again needing slower shutter speed. The lenses available were also a problem at least with the Pentax 645Z.

It will be very interesting to see comparisons between the two in terms of print quality - which is IMHO the ultimate test of the system.

Pradeep
 

by signgrap on Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:16 am
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DP Review just published their Studio Scene Test from a camera in "the wild":
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/9306199729/sony-a7r-iv-added-to-studio-test-scene-comparison
Dick Ludwig
 

by E.J. Peiker on Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:21 am
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I should have a final production a7R4 in hand on Friday...
 

by signgrap on Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:29 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
I should have a final production a7R4 in hand on Friday...

I'm anxious to hear your take - is it worth the upgrade $'s. 
Also interested in your assessment of the difference in VF's between the III and IV.  As I understand it Sony has upped the megapixels in the VF - what's the improvement between VF's in the two cameras? Is the VF equal or almost so to an optical VF in a top line DSLR as suggested by some reviewers?
Dick Ludwig
 

by E.J. Peiker on Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:58 pm
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I've already seen the EVF in use, it's the same one as Leica uses, the Panasonic S1R uses and the Fuji GFX-100 uses - it is a dramatic step up.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:15 am
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signgrap wrote:
DP Review just published their Studio Scene Test from a camera in "the wild":
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/9306199729/sony-a7r-iv-added-to-studio-test-scene-comparison

I just went through it with a fine tooth comb - the high frequency detail is amazing - the only camera I have shot with that is better is the 55K Phase System although I'm sure the GFX-100 would be better as well.
 

by SantaFeJoe on Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:41 pm
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Here’s a link to an article on using the a7r iv for wildlife. It mentions about the viewfinder as compared to the 3.

https://fstoppers.com/animal/why-i-bought-sony-a7r-iv-wildlife-photography-405603

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by Neilyb on Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:04 am
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Looking at the Dpreview comparison the IV is quite noisy over ISO1600, more so than the III, which is fine if you can resize down to negate that extra noise.

Not fine if you expect to use this for cropping in and saving money on expensive lenses :)
 

by Scott Fairbairn on Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:38 am
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Use topaz AI clear and your noise concerns will go away.
 

by Neilyb on Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:36 am
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I am happy with my noise :) on the 5D4 but might need it with the 83MP sensor ;)
 

by ChrisRoss on Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:05 am
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
If I can get one of these in time for my October/November trip to Tasmania, I will conduct a thorough field test of 20 days of shooting everyday in all sorts of conditions and including landscapes, wildlife/birds, and culture.  Crossing my fingers!



You connecting through Sydney?  If I'm in town I could show you around.
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by E.J. Peiker on Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:26 am
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ChrisRoss wrote:
E.J. Peiker wrote:
If I can get one of these in time for my October/November trip to Tasmania, I will conduct a thorough field test of 20 days of shooting everyday in all sorts of conditions and including landscapes, wildlife/birds, and culture.  Crossing my fingers!



You connecting through Sydney?  If I'm in town I could show you around.


Nope, Melbourne :)  

I do have the a7R4 now.
 

by Scott Fairbairn on Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:41 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
ChrisRoss wrote:
E.J. Peiker wrote:
If I can get one of these in time for my October/November trip to Tasmania, I will conduct a thorough field test of 20 days of shooting everyday in all sorts of conditions and including landscapes, wildlife/birds, and culture.  Crossing my fingers!



You connecting through Sydney?  If I'm in town I could show you around.


Nope, Melbourne :)  

I do have the a7R4 now.


Will you be doing a full review?
 

by E.J. Peiker on Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:02 pm
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I'll have a mini review based on just a couple of days with the camera out in my Newsletter on Saturday but since I've largely finished writing it, here you go - note that it's a great camera but a usual, I focus largely on the shortcomings since what is great about these cameras hasn't changed and is well known:

Sony surprised the industry by introducing the 61 megapixel a7R IV when everyone thought they were finally going to introduce the long overdue a7S III (a more video oriented camera).  This brings all of Sony’s latest technologies to a very high resolution camera along with some significant ergonomic improvements that make the camera easier to use with gloves - something I struggled with a bit early in my Greenland trip on the a7R III until I got used to it.  The grip is slightly deeper and recontoured – while on paper the differences seem minor, in the hand the a7R4 is dramatically easier to hand-hold, at least with my hands.  As the a7R3 before it, the sensor is image stabilized bringing stabilization to any lens, even adapted old lenses from other manufacturers.  The autofocus incorporates the latest version of real time tracking with both human and mammal eye detection.  Both SD card slots are now UHS-II so the camera is no longer hampered by the slower slot when using two memory cards.  I have opted to buy this camera which will result in the sale of my a7R II (my current backup to the a7R III is listed for sale here - https://ejphoto.com/gear_for_sale_page.htm)  and will relegate my a7R III to backup status.  My a7R4 arrived just a few days before the publication of this newsletter.   Like previous a7 models, Sony left us wanting some basic things that virtually every other manufacturer has, most notably, focus stacking.  Sony is now the only camera manufacturer that does not offer focus stacking which is very annoying after using the excellent focus stacking in Phase One, Fuji, Nikon, and Olympus cameras.  Even the budget oriented Canon EOS RP has focus stacking.  The new a7R IV continues to not offer a lossless compressed file format so you have to choose from an uncompressed RAW with gargantuan file sizes or a much smaller file size compressed RAW that throws away recorded information especially along extremely high contrast edges.  A 61 megapixel camera, especially one with no lossless compressed RAW mode really needs a small RAW and medium RAW format like most other manufacturers offer but not Sony.  Additionally, the same old disaster of a menu system lives in this new camera and even though the camera has a touchscreen, it offers no useful functionality in navigating the complex menu structure – it is basically only useful to tap to focus, something I don’t use due to its lack of precision.  One thing I have been screaming for in all Sony cameras is a way to backup the entire state of the camera onto an SD card so when you need major service or the camera gets reset for whatever reason, you can quickly get all of your customization back.  Sony finally implemented this feature… well sort of…  You can now write your camera settings out to an SD card and then load them back or onto another a7R4 but for a completely inexplicable reason, it does not save you’re My Menu customizations – yet another Sony firmware oversight that will probably not get fixed until a Sony a7R5.  If you are a Sony shooter, you should be very familiar with “Sony giveth and Sony taketh away”  – the single most frustrating part of being a Sony shooter.  On the bright side though, this is a single camera for all missions with incredible detail recording capability.  It is a very high resolution full frame 61 megapixel camera that is excellent for landscape photography and is also a very good action camera that clocks in at 10 frames per second (8FPS for real time EVF display).  In APS-C or Super 35 mode, it still has 26 megapixels.   The EVF is the best currently available and the same as what is used in the newest Leica cameras, the Panasonic S1R and the Fujifilm GFX-100.  It gets us ever closer to an optical viewfinder experience with all of the information that makes EVFs so great.  It is not yet on the level with an optical viewfinder on the dynamic range front but a vast improvement over previous EVFs.  Unfortunately, as with previous incarnations of the a7R, the buffer takes a relatively long time to clear and many functions are locked out during this buffering.  It seems that the despite the file sizes growing by 50%, Sony did not speed up the buffer clearing rate enough to offset what was already the slowest buffer clearing speed in the photo industry.  Sony makes some of the highest resolution and best image quality cameras in the world but they continue to lag significantly on the firmware development side (especially when compared with Fuji or Olympus), which are the cause, or at least a significant contributor to every single one of the shortcomings listed above.
 

by signgrap on Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:19 am
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Here's a link to DP Review initial review of the Sony a7R IV.
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7r-iv-initial-review-what-s-new-and-how-it-compares

E.J. interested to hear your take on the DPR's review where you agree and disagree.
Dick Ludwig
 

by archfotos on Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:15 am
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Thank you E.J. for your insights on the IV as I look forward to reading your full review.  My two questions on this new camera, you answered my third about focus stacking, are first, if the sensor is better than the RIII and second is the pixel shift mode more forgiving?

The first question wether the sensor is better I guess relates to a lot of internet grumbling that the higher MP is just creating noise and there isn't a visible improvement in Dynamic Range. Does the increased MP, noise, make 3200 unusable. The second question, wether the pixel shift mode has taken on the traits of the Pentax being a bit more forgiving if any movement is present at the time of capture.  I've heard, no first hand experience, that the Pentax pixel shift can even be used hand held???

Again I appreciate all your insights and look forward to reading your full review.

thanks

Jeff
 

by E.J. Peiker on Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:10 am
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archfotos wrote:
Thank you E.J. for your insights on the IV as I look forward to reading your full review.  My two questions on this new camera, you answered my third about focus stacking, are first, if the sensor is better than the RIII and second is the pixel shift mode more forgiving?

The first question wether the sensor is better I guess relates to a lot of internet grumbling that the higher MP is just creating noise and there isn't a visible improvement in Dynamic Range. Does the increased MP, noise, make 3200 unusable. The second question, wether the pixel shift mode has taken on the traits of the Pentax being a bit more forgiving if any movement is present at the time of capture.  I've heard, no first hand experience, that the Pentax pixel shift can even be used hand held???

Again I appreciate all your insights and look forward to reading your full review.

thanks

Jeff

Since I don't do still life I don't really sue pixel shift but no, it is totally unforgiving.  Tony Northrup has a video on it on You Tube and even on the second floor of a house (or the first floor if the house has a basement) just the small movements in the house is enough to ruin the shot.
The pixel shift stuff starts here in the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiY7rwq0i00&t=3911s

Noise is a tricky thing.  It depends on how you evaluate it.  If you look at it at a pixel level you get one answer, usually meaning higher megapixels is a bit noisier but if you look at for a fixed output size like DXO Mark does you usually get a different answer due to pixel binning. At the pixel level the 4 would be slightly noisier than the 3 and at the fixed output level it is on par but with slightly more detail.

One thing the photonstophotos site shows is that the dual gain is nowhere as strong as on the a7R3.  On that camera if you needed to go to ISO 400 you might as well go to 640 as it is equivalent in noise and dynamic range due to the second stage gain kicking in.  That effect occurs at more like ISO 500 on the a7R4 and the effect is not nearly as strong.  Overall real photographic dynamic range between the two is about the same regardless of Sony's bogus 15 stop claim.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:19 am
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signgrap wrote:
Here's a link to DP Review initial review of the Sony a7R IV.
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7r-iv-initial-review-what-s-new-and-how-it-compares

E.J. interested to hear your take on the DPR's review where you agree and disagree.


That's mostly just a preliminary review and I agree with virtually everything in it.  Aside from the higher resolution, for me the biggest things from an in the outdoors usability standpoint are being able to see the AF point easily in all situations, the handling improvements of the deeper grip and larger buttons, and the animal AF which actually works very well, even on seals.  I can't wait til they figure out how to make it work on birds.
 

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