Latest and greatest in wide-format printers?

Jon Cone manufactures his own inks through a sibling company that he runs, Vermont Photoinkjet. These are the inks sold under Cone's own labels as well as some others. So he is a manufacturer like Image Specialists and a small number of others. Most companies that sell ink are selling re-labelled ink coming from one of these handful of manufacturers.

Cone's inks have the distinction of using a similar level of advanced pigment formulation, encapsulation and other processes as found in OEM inks from Epson, HP, etc. I'm not personally aware of another 3rd party ink manufacturer that hits the same level of sophistication in their ink formulations. That's why Inkjetmall inks, while cheaper than OEM, are not the cheapest ones out there.

Cone is obviously biased in his own favor but here's a link to his ink manufacturing outfit with some of what he claims as differentiation from the others:
http://www.vermontphotoinkjet.com/

Not trying to do a sell job on Cone inks but there are reasons why Cone inks stand apart from the others I personally know something about. I've by no means attempted to evaluate all the others, though, and some of them may be perfectly suitable for various needs. I still wouldn't try messing with inks while debugging a serious hardware problem, but it's something to file away for future reference.

Paul's suggestions on rehabbing the 9900 sound like the way to at least start narrowing in on the issue. If you don't mind the time on DIY, go that route and see where it leads...

Paul, when you say 'initial fill cycle' do you mean removing the carts, turning the printer off and then putting them back and restarting the machine? I think I did that with one of the channels and it did not work. Is there another way to do this?

BTW, the image-specialists cost is not that low. My delivered cost of a  700ml cart - $180 vs $225 from my dealer.  Of course I could refill these carts but there is no option to do that.

From Inkjetmall that Royce talks about, the 700ml bottle is $115 delivered, plus whatever the carts cost initially. So the cheapest option for third party is about 50% of the Epson ink.

If I did print a lot it may make more sense to go third party.

Pradeep

Pradeep enter maintenance mode by pressing the menu, paper feed, and ok buttons down at the same time and the hit the power on button. After the printer is all settled in hit the menu button and find self test-->cleaning-->init.fill.  I don't remember taking the carts out for this, but maybe when I took them out for filling with flush I inadvertently did just that in essence. Try it without removing carts and if the printer doesn't like it it will probably tell you so. then try the remove carts and replace. It's possible you may need to reset them. My resetter works on epsons carts fine by the way. I just don't remember that detail of it -sorry Pradeep.

We can talk all about 3rd party stuff later and I would enjoy the sharing of info on it--worthy of anew thread.

Thanks Royce for the link I'll check his inks out more thoroughly.

Paul

pleverington wrote:Pradeep enter maintenance mode by pressing the menu, paper feed, and ok buttons down at the same time and the hit the power on button. After the printer is all settled in hit the menu button and find self test-->cleaning-->init.fill.  I don't remember taking the carts out for this, but maybe when I took them out for filling with flush I inadvertently did just that in essence. Try it without removing carts and if the printer doesn't like it it will probably tell you so. then try the remove carts and replace. It's possible you may need to reset them. My resetter works on epsons carts fine by the way. I just don't remember that detail of it -sorry Pradeep.

We can talk all about 3rd party stuff later and I would enjoy the sharing of info on it--worthy of anew thread.

Thanks Royce for the link I'll check his inks out more thoroughly.

Paul

Paul, I think we've hijacked this thread completely

I did do some of the cleaning and other tests (the ?AID test) via the Serviceman menu so I can get there. Did not see the init fill option, but obviously I was not looking for it. Will do it later this week when I've gotten some fresh carts as a couple of them (not all with the missed nozzles) are very low on ink. 

Is the resetter you are talking about the one from Image supplies?

There is another problem with tinkering with the printer. If you replace certain parts like the head or the Main board, you need to reprogram the VRAM and other things for which you need the program 'serveprog.exe'. Apparently Epson will not let you do it on your own and getting a tech to come in will cost $500 just to reprogram the software. 

I don't know if this applies to replacing the cleaning station. 

Pradeep

I didn't need it.
The re-setter you can buy anywhere or from a lot of places. Cone sells them and there's one for the waste tank too. I reuse my tanks and stuff them with folded paper towels. Works perfectly fine.

Yeah get your ink and try the initial fill and pull some fluid thru. Make sure you can actually ascertain just how much ink winds up in your waste tank afterwards so you may want to clean them out by removing the plastic top and re-stuffing with something like paper towels. You of course wouldn't have to worry about resetting but since everything is new you are most clearly going to see how much ink has gotten through.

As to be expected cone resetters are expensive:

http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362 ... y.27717/.f

This one is also pricey. But observe the three raised guide fences surrounding the contacts..you want that design over just the one fence models..if possible.

http://www.amazon.com/InkOwl%C2%AE-Chip ... B00A2UE7RA

I think I paid maybe 20 bucks for mine. The waste tank resetter was more expensive though. If I find where I bought it them I will pass that info along...

here ya go Pradeep:

http://www.americaninkjetsystems2.com/s ... tters.html

no pics but  scroll down for resetter's and he also sells a  lot of parts. Call and ask him later about the cleaning station. He spends a lot of time with people on the phone and formulates some very interesting inks. He doesn't assume that  epson's selection of  color is exactly what  people need. IOW's it is possible to exceed epson's color gamut easily with certain inks(color) coupled with certain types of images. I like a lot his off beat way of doing things...Out  of the box let's say. He knows a lot about printers.

Paul

Wow! Interesting stuff. Thanks Paul. Will work on it this weekend - hopefully.

Pradeep

On the americaninkjet website under pros and cons for the 9900 he even says "plan to replace the capping station every three years" I'm assuming the capping station is what I call the cleaning station and epson calls the ink system unit.

While your waiting for your ink cartridges in the mail:
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/ind ... ic=80329.0


Paul

pleverington wrote:On the americaninkjet website under pros and cons for the 9900 he even says "plan to replace the capping station every three years" I'm assuming the capping station is what I call the cleaning station and epson calls the ink system unit.

While your waiting for your ink cartridges in the mail:
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/ind ... ic=80329.0


Paul

Paul, I too suspected that the capping station is the problem on my machine. I bought my printer in 2009 so it is now six years old and even though I've been a very light user, it may be time to replace certain parts. 

The American Inkjet Systems solution is very intriguing. If I had to go all out for a new system I might have considered it, but getting a new set with the RIP is more than the cost of a new 9900 by itself. Even though I would probably  love the final output and quality, being an amateur I am not sure I could justify it - certainly 'she who must be obeyed' would have a fit

Pradeep

Primus wrote:

pleverington wrote:On the americaninkjet website under pros and cons for the 9900 he even says "plan to replace the capping station every three years" I'm assuming the capping station is what I call the cleaning station and epson calls the ink system unit.

While your waiting for your ink cartridges in the mail:
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/ind ... ic=80329.0


Paul

Paul, I too suspected that the capping station is the problem on my machine. I bought my printer in 2009 so it is now six years old and even though I've been a very light user, it may be time to replace certain parts. 

The American Inkjet Systems solution is very intriguing. If I had to go all out for a new system I might have considered it, but getting a new set with the RIP is more than the cost of a new 9900 by itself. Even though I would probably  love the final output and quality, being an amateur I am not sure I could justify it - certainly 'she who must be obeyed' would have a fit

Pradeep

I know what you mean about the cost. RIP-2000, ink1000-2000, carts 200-400...spending money seems an endless endeavor with this hobby. I'm sure his major market for his inks are the textile market, but I am  very tempted to try his ink set out someday soon. Ideally we all need a 18 color printer to sufficiently cover all the possibilities.
But when one considers that epson is using an ink set that has to print every kind of image and in B&W too, and then satisfy the personal taste of every artist/printer, one has to ask can that really be done. The answer is yes and no. The colors we are all accustomed too are the best compromise to fulfill everyone's needs. Yeah...to a degree. Some images no problem but most images falling short of what's possible. If you  take a  look at  the link Royce provided about Cone inks and watch that  video you see plain as day the difference between epson ink sets struggling and straining and compromising trying to get done a job that clearly is more suited for an ink set made for B&W images. That's why people have gone the way of those type ink sets.

I am visioning large prints of Olympic national park with all those greens printed out on a machine that uses a custom built green ink set that would knock people out when they saw those beautiful glowing lush shades of green. Thank the stars we have at least green and orange now in our 9900's for those sunsets and forest pictures and nature in general... this helps ....but nothing would beat a specific ink set for specific images, (I guess several printers with different ink sets). But that would no way be close to a printer with 16 or more colors and a great RIP. Oh what fun that would be!!! If someone could take existing pieces and parts of existing printers and putt one together that person would make a lot of money.....and friends!

After spending time talking with you about your printer it occurred to me to call Scott at American inkjet since I haven't for a while. We had a good long talk and one of the things he told me was he was putting out an improved new ink set in a couple of weeks. Deeper black ink, new base made in house, different yellow i believe and violet. So he said wait for that.

I just think it could be a lot of fun taking printing to a different level. Everybody who makes inks tries to copy as close as they can epsons inks as if that is all one can do and this is so far from the truth. But certainly one will need a great RIP that allows total management.

Maybe someone who gives up on their 9900 might sell it to me real cheap then I  could fix it and have fun, fun, fun till they take the all my ink away from me...
Did you check out that Edward Loedding flower images printed using the expanded gamut ink sets? I think flowers, especially blown up big, would be a good application for them..

http://www.graphicrepro.co.za/assets/2/ ... eGamut.pdf

Paul

pleverington wrote: Maybe someone who gives up on their 9900 might sell it to me real cheap then I  could fix it and have fun, fun, fun till they take the all my ink away from me...
Did you check out that Edward Loedding flower images printed using the expanded gamut ink sets? I think flowers, especially blown up big, would be a good application for them..

http://www.graphicrepro.co.za/assets/2/ ... eGamut.pdf

Paul

Heh heh, dream on Paul

This may sound strange but one of the greatest pleasures in the world of photography for me has been the sight of these beautiful large prints rolling off my 9900. There is nothing quite like seeing your own creation coming down the pipes that way. Getting it printed from a third party and having it delivered just does not compare. I know there are many who may feel different and I know that a professional printing house would actually produce  a much better product than I could create at home, but to me it's a bit like comparing the work of say Frans Lanting with my own. I know his images are far superior, but I love mine more because I took them.

If I can revive my 3880 which is now sitting forlorn on the floor of my study, I would like to set it up as a dedicated B&W printer, perhaps with a set from Cone Inks. That would be great. 

Yes, Loedding's images are beautiful and I can see how they would appeal to a lot of people who want wall art. But I am not into flowers somehow. 

For now I would be very happy if I can get my 9900 to work again.

Pradeep

Paul, THANK YOU!

I did the 'init flush' as you advised, after making sure there was enough ink. Ran a nozzle check immediately after. Almost all were good, there was one nozzle dropping out in LK and another one in green. Unbelievable. It did use up quite a bit of ink and about 38% of the waste tank but well worth it. 

I then did a test print of a target, it was perfect.

Then I did the real test, two images with a sunset  and sunrise gradient in the sky from blue to pink/red and yellow. There were no bands but it seemed that some of the tones were 'mixed up' if you looked closely, i.e. some of the lines were multicolored.

Ran another target print, perfect once more. Black gradients were absolutely fine.

Did another large print with sky and mountains and a gradient, almost perfect except for minimal banding (very faint) in the top 1/2 inch of the image.

Ran another nozzle check after this - guess what, several more nozzles are now dropped, and these are different from the two that failed after the 'init flush'. The pattern now looks exactly like it did before the flush. 

What this tells me is that my head is DEFINITELY not clogged. The problem appears to be either air in the lines or a faulty capping station which prevents ink from being suctioned out of the lines. I may not be explaining myself correctly, but the problem, IMHO is not with the head or nozzles per se.

So the next step would be to replace the capping assembly and the wiper. Helluva chore, but beats a dead head any day.

Can't thank you enough Paul. The 'experts' at LuLa had no clue!

Pradeep

It definitely sounds like your making some progress Pradeep. I'm taking my best guess, but it sounds like your maybe getting some suction from the pump but not enough. Signs of a failing pump maybe IOWs. I say this because init fill did a lot of good where cleaning cycles didn't. IOW's initial fill was a glorified clean cycle now and clean cycles were zip. Could be a bad seal between the capping station and the head possibly, but more likely the pump going south. Anyways, for a couple of hundred bucks, replace the dang whole unit and be done with several aspects that lead to trouble with the whole system is my POV.

Be patient when you get into this. Be patient, patient, patient. Watch the delicate electronics ribbons and take extra care for them carefully when taking off the right cover of the printer. Understand the adjustments you must make after installing the new capping station unit. You can buy the guage for the one that sets distance between the head and capping station, but like I said, it's ridiculously expensive. Look around the house and find some alternative flat items that will give you the proper gauge thicknesses specified in the manual and those will be fine. If you do not have a micrometer or equivalent you'll need to get one or borrow one for this. They are not to real expensive and serve to help also when your using different papers and you want to know how thick they actually are.

I'll be glad to help when you get started in any way possible. I cannot stress enough to just take your time and think about every move. But after you are done you'll realize how simple and easy it actually is to do at least this particular maintenance replacement on your printer...I promise.

Oh you will need a very long phillips screwdriver by the way. I bought mine at the depot...I think it was a no. 2 phillips 16-18 inches long. When I find it I will let you know..but you must have one to do the repair.



Paul

Thanks again Paul. I do have all the necessary tools, including the long Philips #1 (I got these after watching the video on Chris's site).

Do you remember where to get the gauge from? It may be better for me to just buy it (I am not good at DIY).

Once I finish this project I am going to try to revive my dead 3880 (although I have the P800 in its place) because if I can, I want to keep it as a B&W printer and use the Piezo ink set from Cone inks.

The capping station is ordered already. Fingers crossed.

Pradeep

which site is Chris's site?

pleverington wrote:which site is Chris's site?

Sorry, I thought I had mentioned it previously.

http://myx900.com/

He has a couple of good videos there including a really detailed one on how to replace the head.

Pradeep

Oh..OK..you did, but back then his name was Eric...That had me confused..

pleverington wrote:Oh..OK..you did, but back then his name was Eric...That had me confused..

Oops, his name IS Eric, my bad.

Pradeep