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by Tom Cudzilo on Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:57 am
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I got sample packs from Moab, Hahne, Epson and Inkpress.
How do I go about choosing the right paper? Should I print the same image on all of them? Should I print them full size 8x11 or 2 images per page? How do you about choosing the paper and how do you decide what images to select for printing?
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Here is what I am thinking and please do tell me if I am going about this the wrong way.
Select one of my fav lanscape shots with lots of color, light and dark areas etc. and print that on half the sheet for each paper (unless there are two sheets of each paper in the box).
Select one of my fav black and white shots and print that on the other half of the sheet using canned profiles.
After that lay them out, feel them, look at them behind glass and without glass.
Is that the way to do this or am I way off.
 

by Steven Major on Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:37 am
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There is so much complexity in photography, I've kept the paper part simple. I avoid anything that can distract from the image, and so never mount behind glass and don't use glossy paper for the same reason (reflections). As far as feeling the paper, I never got into that.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:37 am
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I would approach it a bit different if it were me but there are probably 1000 answers to this.  First you need to get paper profiles for your printer for each paper off of the various paper company's websites.  Then I would chose a paper based on the look you are going for for that particular photo.  You could go to the website of the paper company and read on what the specific purpose of a particular paper is.  If you have a photo that matches that purpose or it offers a look you are looking for, then try those papers for that purpose from the different companies to determine which you like for that purpose.

For example if you have a photo that might look great on a textured watercolor paper then get out the three papers from the three groups that are for that and make your prints and determine which one you like best.  It will be important to keep them straight.  Similarly for smooth glossy, smooth semi-gloss, textured satin, smooth matte, etc, etc, etc...  In the end you might end up with 3 or 4 papers that you really like for what you do and those then would be the ones you would buy.  But do make sure you print each one with the correct profile or you will not be able to make a valid conclusion.  And soft-proof your photos using that profile and make your final adjustments prior to printing in soft-proof mode.
 

by RoyH on Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:40 am
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Tom,

I think you are on the right track.

What I did when I wanted to evaluate papers is print the same printer test image on the all of the papers. I use the color test image available here: http://outbackprint.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi049/essay.html. This test image has a wide range of subject matter along with color and black & white scales for evaluation. I print the image to the largest size possible on the paper based on the size of the paper sample. If you also do black & white a good black & white reference image is available from here: http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/black_and_white_test.html.

I have full collections of both color and black & white images for Moab, Epson, and Red River papers that I keep stored away for reference when the choice of paper that I want to use is not obvious, but you will soon learn the papers that you like best and work best for certain images. The sample packages from Moab, Epson, and Red River, if I remember correctly, all contained 2 sheets of each paper so one sample box allowed for both color and black & white images. Then I do just what you said, examine them in various lighting and other conditions for the feel of the paper and look you want from the image.

As far as selected what images to print, what paper, size, etc. that is very subjective and more about you, your images, and what you want more than I think any of us can tell you. But, I will say that some images just beg to be printed and displayed and the choice is easy, with others it takes some experimentation sometimes, I find this is especially true with black and white images. Me personally, I print quite a few of my images and rotate through them between my home and office quite frequently. In fact, I print a lot of images that just end up in my 'storage pile' for use later or maybe never. But, I feel that act of printing is a learning experience and will improved you skills even if the print is never displayed.

Not that it matters but I worked in the professional photo-finishing industry back in the days of film as a custom printer, production manager, and lab consultant for 17 years. Today I use an Epson 3880 and print on a variety of papers, mostly from Epson and Moab, but I do use some of the Red River papers at times also.

I left out the technicalities, but as E.J. has pointed out be sure to use and understand the concepts of paper profiles, etc. before attempting to print your image samples.


Good Luck with your printing!

Roy
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by Primus on Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:09 am
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Tom, I went through that recently, after years of printing on mainly Epson and Hahnemuhle. I got sample packs from Hahnemuhle, Breathing color, got a batch of paper from Canson Infinity and Moab. Had Red River from before.

I printed the same target images (the ones Roy mentions above plus from other sources, cropped and composited to make my own custom sized targets) on all the papers. I found that other than looking for color fidelity, dMax, luminosity etc, the target images did not work on an emotional or subjective level which is probably as important, since these were not my own images.

So in addition to the targets, I printed some of my own favorite landscape and wildlife images that I have previously done in large size for display. It was easier now to evaluate the output. It is amazing how a target will not tell you but one of your own images will simply light up on a certain paper - at least for me.

Have not mounted any of my prints yet. That is a whole different ball game. Ideally would like to do it without glass but not sure if gallery wraps or simple mat and frame is the answer or something like Plexiflex which then takes away the printing part from you. Somehow printing your own images at home gives me almost as much satisfaction as taking them in the first place did.
 

by Royce Howland on Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:12 pm
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Tom, your method is about as good as any. Of course, there is no "right" paper... unless by "right" you mean "I like the way it looks with one of my images". :) Whether you might like some other paper better or not will be hard to say until you've experienced enough papers that you can look at a new one and some reviews of it, and guess whether it might be "better" than a paper in your existing go-to stock, for a certain type of image.

You probably shouldn't print the same image on ALL sample papers unless you're thinking of seriously printing that type of image on that type of paper. Matte and glossy papers, for example, have a very different degree of saturation and contrast. If you have a punchy colorful image you might question why you'd print it on matte stock... unless you're pretty serious about avoiding any kind of reflection. Personally I don't print much on matte, except for the special case of my B&W work which I currently print using the K7 carbon ink process on Hahnemuhle Bamboo.

I don't print small samples any more, I tend to go straight to a larger size like 13x19. I buy a box of say 25 sheets and print 3 - 4 images using the generic profile to evaluate how good that profile is. If the images look reasonable, I'll print through the rest of the box using a variety my images that have different ranges of color & contrast. Then I'll look at them in good light for awhile and compare to those same (or similar) images printed on other papers that are in my go-to stock. If a new paper is better I'll either add it to the go-to stock, or replace an older paper with the newer one.

If the first 3 - 4 images printed using the generic profiles aren't a very good rendition, then I'll create a custom profile before going any further. A paper can't look better than the profile lets it look so there's no point wasting ink or trying to judge prints on a new paper if the profile is sub-standard.

In the end, I choose a paper for good color & contrast for certain types of image, over-all tone, robust handling, archival qualities, aesthetic properties (surface appearance, and I do value good tactile qualities), manufacturer consistency, and price.
Royce Howland
 

by Primus on Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:40 am
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Royce thank you, that is very useful. I do have two questions for you.

When you do a custom profile, do you make that yourself or do you send it out? I have the usual colorimeter and software for monitor profiling, but it will not do a target print since it is a hand held meter.

When you say 'tactile feel', I get that completely. But then what do you do with your prints? Do they sit in a drawer to be brought out periodically or do you put them in an album (I am currently using the Itoya professional for showing to family and friends), or do you mount/frame them for wall display?

I did not want to go off topic but I think the big question now, for me at least is how best to display your work at home/office. Perhaps another thread?

Pradeep
 

by Royce Howland on Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:56 am
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I make my own custom profiles using the ColorMunki Photo. For a simple-to-use product, its results are surprisingly good, and often immediately better than many canned profiles downloaded from paper vendor web sites. Ultimately I'll upgrade to an i1Photo Pro 2 package but I haven't had the time to make that jump yet. (Only so many hours in the day!)

For example I'm evaluating the brand-new Ilford Galerie Gold Mono Silk paper right now. My first few test prints using the generic Ilford profile for my Epson 4880 were not good -- a pronounced magenta cast on B&W images, and excessive saturation on the color prints. Also some noticeable loss of highlight contrast. Compared side-by-side with the exact same images on Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk (my main go-to paper for general use) again using the appropriate generic Ilford profile, the GFS prints look virtually right on whereas the GMS prints look poor. I'd never use or recommend anyone else to use the generic GMS profile, at least not for the Epson 4880 printer. This just illustrates that not all generic profiles from a paper vendor are equally good, even for the same printer model and papers that are close to each other in their visual characteristics.

So, last night I quickly created a Gold Mono Silk profile using my ColorMunki and then used the smartly designed capability to create some additional printer test patches by sampling colors from the specific test images I'm printing. This allows the profile to be iteratively fine-tuned for greater accuracy based on my own actual images' color ranges. Re-doing my test prints, they are now almost dead-on matches for the Gold Fibre Silk prints. The remaining difference is still mostly to do with a now slight magenta cast; I haven't concluded yet if this is a feature of the new GMS (which contains optical brighteners, whereas GFS does not) or if there's still a slight bit of fine-tuning I need to do. Either way, right now the custom profile I made is close enough that I can properly evaluate a bunch of new test prints.

As for what to do with the prints, during the paper evaluation time that Tom is talking about, I leave them laying around here and there and look at them at different times under different lighting and so on. I do put them in those Itoya folios as well, and haul them out for visitors to look at or take them around with me to show people. :) I will also put them loose in boxes with separator sheets and occasionally bring those out as well. Whether boxed or in the folios, I do encourage people to take them out and handle them, compare them with each other across a table or counter top, etc.

Longer term for select prints I frame them to hang around the house or a few other places. I think part of really evaluating a specific print on a specific paper, one that I'm personally invested in for whatever reason, requires living with it "for real". That means hanging it on a wall in actual display conditions and interacting with it over a period of time.

Probably good to start another thread on what to do with prints if you want to explore that more. :)
Royce Howland
 

by pleverington on Fri May 10, 2013 9:41 am
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There certainly is an art to printing. It just takes time and the willingness to experiment and go out of the box sometimes to figure what image looks best on what paper. And papers have come a long way in the last ten years for digital inkjet. Personally I avoid the rosin core papers. I like that ink is absorbed into the paper more than just lying on top(pigmented inkjet problem mostly). However this leads to a little bleeding on the mattes, but todays mattes seem to have that problem well under control. Love the new fiber papers for glossy and the breathing color papers that can get coated easily for glass-less display.

Just gotta take time and play. You'll develop your own intuition over time. But certainly hard saturated color images do better on a glossy fiber or RC paper than a matte or semi matte. Stuff like that is a no brainer.  Whiteners can lead to a lot of color changes very quickly if displayed in light and I have seen some very disappointing results on some papers. But there are very different whiteners out there being used and some are good and some not so good. Check out and play with the breathing color line for a while. I know Les has changed over to a lot of their stuff, so that says something about the product.

And even though you may get your profiles right to the tee, take your prints outside and the colors just go all over the place different. There is no answer to this problem as unless you take a colorimeter reading of the projected display environment, your colors are not going to be exact. Some papers such as mattes do a lot better in this aspect than the glossies I believe. But something to consider when selling prints to others and there is not much predictive certainty on where those prints and how those prints will be displayed.

Paul
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