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by Larry Shuman on Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:17 pm
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Epson told me this afternoon that their 220ml ink is now at $138.00 per color. How can they justify that cost for something thats 99% water?
In a Cleveland photo store they charge $100.00 for 220ml ink. In San Francisco its only $90.00. At these prices I'm going to quit printing and
will seriously consider selling the big printer. What must it cost to supply ink for a 44" printer? Epson is making it very very hard.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:36 pm
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Unfortunately it's a well known fact that printer companies sell the hardware at a loss and make their profits off the ink which has several thousand percent markup.

Those printers are designed as high volume professional printers and as such should easily pay for themselves as far as ink is concerned very rapidly every day. But most private parties that own them simply do not use them enough nor make enough money off of their prints to get payback on the investment. But then again, that was never the design goal of those printers.
 

by Larry Shuman on Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:01 pm
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I need to do a power cleaning and to do that I had to get 4 colors. If I got the 4 colors semi locally
it would cost $400.00. If I bought the 4 colors in San Francisco the cost would be $360.00. So I purchased
4 110ml for $41.00 to 49.00. Now I will only print the random 8x11 which will have to meet very critical
inspection in order to be printed. This pricing on ink is just typical American corporate GREED.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:41 pm
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Except Epson is a Japanese company ;)
 

by Mark Picard on Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:51 pm
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Larry Shuman wrote:
Epson told me this afternoon that their 220ml ink is now at $138.00 per color. How can they justify that cost for something thats 99% water?
In a Cleveland photo store they charge $100.00 for 220ml ink. In San Francisco its only $90.00. At these prices I'm going to quit printing and
will seriously consider selling the big printer. What must it cost to supply ink for a 44" printer? Epson is making it very very hard.

You're looking in the wrong place Larry - B&H sells 220 ml ink cartridges for $79. each (for the 38XX , 48XX, or 49XX models) and they sell 150ml cartridges (for the 79XX and 99XX models) for $85. each You have to click on the "price" button to get the actual selling price. I'm amazed at just how far these inks actually go. I think it's overall a good deal, especially compared to the smaller printers that seem to really suck up the inks.
Mark Picard
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Maine Photography Workshops
 

by Larry Shuman on Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:51 am
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Mark Picard wrote:
Larry Shuman wrote:
Epson told me this afternoon that their 220ml ink is now at $138.00 per color. How can they justify that cost for something thats 99% water?
In a Cleveland photo store they charge $100.00 for 220ml ink. In San Francisco its only $90.00. At these prices I'm going to quit printing and
will seriously consider selling the big printer. What must it cost to supply ink for a 44" printer? Epson is making it very very hard.


You're looking in the wrong place Larry - B&H sells 220 ml ink cartridges for $79. each (for the 38XX , 48XX, or 49XX models) and they sell 150ml cartridges (for the 79XX and 99XX models) for $85. each You have to click on the "price" button to get the actual selling price. I'm amazed at just how far these inks actually go. I think it's overall a good deal, especially compared to the smaller printers that seem to really suck up the inks.

Thanks Mark
I'm retired on a fixed income. Seventy nine dollars is a good price and I'll remember that. I have going to severely limit my printing or
sell the printer. Seventy nine dollars x 8 equals $632.00. That is still twice as much as my property taxes. I ended up buying 3 110ml
for about $145. 
Everytime I call B&H they seem to be closed. I'm old fashioned, I like to call them.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:21 am
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Larry, some of the inks you end up using at a much greater clip. There are three colors that I replace more than twice as much as the others so it isn't really $79x8 every time you need to replace a cartridge.
 

by signgrap on Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:44 am
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One thing to remember when buying ink for pro printers is the rate at which you use the ink. If you print in low volume and it takes a long time to use a cartridge of ink then you're better off buying the smaller 110 ml size as the ink settles out over time. This can contribute to nozzle clogging and slight changes in color as the heavy particles settle. If you keep cartridges at the ready it is a good idea to agitate then once a week and rotate their position so the ink does not settle. Before inserting into the printer I give them a good shake (not violently so as to create bubbles, it's more like a slow motion roll). Also note that ink usually comes with an expiration date - if you find a cheap price sometimes it's because it's past the use by date. I find that Hunts has good prices and they usually have free shipping to boot. If you have NOT used your printer in a while it is not a bad idea to to take out each cartridge and slowly shake it up, making sure not to create bubbles and then reinsert them into the printer.
Dick Ludwig
 

by Mark Picard on Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:48 pm
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Another possibility Larry is to use refillable ink cartridges from John Cone. They require a little labor that's quite easy to do, and the savings can be huge. Check it out here: 

http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362672/sc.11/category.27714/.f

I wouldn't do it if your printer is still under warranty, but if it's not, I'd switch to this system if it were me. I've heard nothing but good reviews of this system. I know that Royce Howland here on NSN uses his (John Cone) B&W carbon system for his in house black and white printing. 

You can just get the individual inks and cartridges one at a time (as they run out), so that would be less of a hit on the pocketbook each time. All his inks are compatible and can be used with the stock Epson inks, meaning that even if you only had 1 or 2 in there with the rest of the Epson inks, it will still function perfectly. Initially you will need to purchase a cartridge chip re-setter to reset the cartridges back to showing full before you insert them back into the printer. Again, this is a simple step that literally takes a second to do. Even having to purchase the re-setter for the initial first time and a couple of inks and refillable cartridges, it's still cheaper than buying Epson. And you get to use the re-setter forever on any inks you refill forever after that.  I didn't do the math, but I'm thinking I remember it was about half of the cost of using Epson inks. Check it out.
Mark Picard
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Maine Photography Workshops
 

by Larry Shuman on Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:13 pm
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Mark:
This appears to be a outstanding idea. If Royce uses this for BW do you know of anyone using it for color?
I've stayed from refill systems because of jamming issues and other issues. What about drying times and smudging problems. Going from .60/ml to .18/ml is impressive.
Its early evening here so I'll give them a call tomorrow morning.

Thanks again Mark
 

by signgrap on Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:00 pm
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Curious to know if John Cone inks have the same nozzle clogging problems on an Epson 4800 that the Epson inks have?
Dick Ludwig
 

by Mark Picard on Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:33 pm
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signgrap wrote:
Curious to know if John Cone inks have the same nozzle clogging problems on an Epson 4800 that the Epson inks have?


And what clogging problems are you experiencing Dick? I have both the 4880 and the 9900 Epsons and I experience very little clogging problems - maybe 2-3 times a year (and I print a lot). Of course that might be why I don't clog that much! And when I do need a clean, I just run a normal clean and it cleans up fine. Are you in a low or high humidity area?
Mark Picard
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Maine Photography Workshops
 

by Mark Picard on Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:38 pm
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Larry Shuman wrote:
Mark:
This appears to be a outstanding idea. If Royce uses this for BW do you know of anyone using it for color?
I've stayed from refill systems because of jamming issues and other issues. What about drying times and smudging problems. Going from .60/ml to .18/ml is impressive.
Its early evening here so I'll give them a call tomorrow morning.

Thanks again Mark
I gotta' think they would be comparable to Epson's characteristics in that they're dry to the touch right after printing. I let my prints dry overnight before I mount/mat/frame/handle them anyway. What do you mean by jamming issues Larry?
Mark Picard
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Maine Photography Workshops
 

by Larry Shuman on Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:07 am
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The ink would cause a variety of issues that have been associated with compatible inks.
Ink would cause clogging issues and probable damage to the print head. Perhaps jamming wasn't the right term.

Its still early , I'll call them around 9am.


Thanks again
 

by Royce Howland on Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:54 pm
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I have not used Jon Cone's colour inks, but they are the only ones I would even bother to look at if I wanted to investigate aftermarket colour inks. I do use Cone's K7 Carbon monochrome inks and love them, but they're specialized and not really comparable to much else out there, certainly not the Epson OEM inks, for B&W work.

But there are always risks in going with an aftermarket solution. I use the K7 inks in full awareness that I'm potentially writing off my 3880 printer if a problem develops and push comes to shove with Epson service. The reason I do it is because of the advantage of the K7 inks; they are IMO simply better than anything else for B&W work. So I've chosen them for the qualitative reasons, not because they are cheap.

I stick with the Epson OEM colour inks for colour work on my 4880, because to me the hassle of dealing with reloadable carts -- and there are hassles -- plus the potential risks of third-party inks are not worth the cost savings to me. Even the best third-party colour inks offer no qualitative advantages in making prints, only a cost advantage. While the mediocre & poor 3rd-party inks actually offer many qualitative DISadvantages.

But that's my call; others may choose differently. I'm not doing my own printing to save money, but because I can control the print-making process as much or as little as a I want, and can run off any type of supported print whenever I want.
Royce Howland
 

by signgrap on Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:27 am
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Mark Picard wrote:
signgrap wrote:
Curious to know if John Cone inks have the same nozzle clogging problems on an Epson 4800 that the Epson inks have?



And what clogging problems are you experiencing Dick? I have both the 4880 and the 9900 Epsons and I experience very little clogging problems - maybe 2-3 times a year (and I print a lot). Of course that might be why I don't clog that much! And when I do need a clean, I just run a normal clean and it cleans up fine. Are you in a low or high humidity area?
Mark the 4800 is notorious for clogging when the printer isn't used as often as it should be. In a production situation where the printer is used daily, clogging is not an issue but if you use it once a week or less often, particularly in the winter, clogging is a real problem. I believe one of the issues Epson addressed in the 4880 was clogging. My guess is that they redesigned the area where the head parks in order to keep the nozzles moist.
Dick Ludwig
 

by Mark Picard on Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:55 am
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signgrap wrote:
Mark the 4800 is notorious for clogging when the printer isn't used as often as it should be. In a production situation where the printer is used daily, clogging is not an issue but if you use it once a week or less often, particularly in the winter, clogging is a real problem. I believe one of the issues Epson addressed in the 4880 was clogging. My guess is that they redesigned the area where the head parks in order to keep the nozzles moist.




Hard to keep up with all this crap isn't it? :lol:
Mark Picard
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Maine Photography Workshops
 

by Royce Howland on Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:39 pm
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With digital capture, processing and printing, the creative possibilities are endless. So is the amount of fiddling trying to get -- and keep -- everything working properly. :)
Royce Howland
 

by signgrap on Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:45 pm
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Royce Howland wrote:
With digital capture, processing and printing, the creative possibilities are endless. So is the amount of fiddling trying to get -- and keep -- everything working properly. :)
Royce you are so right!
Dick Ludwig
 

by fredcor on Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:58 pm
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I thank my lucky stars I never took to printing my own.  I'd be hooked on printing like you and be grumbling my way to the store every time.  I've watched the prices of ink go up over the years and felt really sorry for those that have printers.  I just go to Costco, they're good enough for me.
Frederick Lat Correa
 

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