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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:10 pm
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http://news.sky.com/story/1633243/broth ... y-poachers

Roger Gower's brother's words:

"I’m proud of what he did. I’m proud he got his passenger down safely. I’m proud he got himself out of the helicopter and I’m proud that even after he was shot he was still laughing.
"They broke the mould when they made him.
"He was incredibly principled, he was a very moral person, he was incredibly loyal to his friends, he was very good fun."


my comment:

The bullet(s) came through the chopper floor, went through Roger Gower's leg and shoulder and even exited the roof.  So, clearly, the poachers are using fully metal-jacketed bullets to kill the elephants.  Is that the only bullet type available for the AK-47?    The elephants are taking countless bullets each.... and each elephant eventually hemorrhages to death.
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by pleverington on Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:50 pm
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Man this whole story is so intense......We have to take action to help....how can we all ignore this problem that is allowing the slaughter of perfectly innocent wild animals for some bucks.............

I have dragged my feet on this I confess and yes I am feeling some guilt..... I must change and be more proactive....


I'm a pilot..give me a black hawk dammit!!!!  I'll make a difference....

Paul
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
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by neverspook on Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:35 am
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In the pilot's memory, his brother is raising funds to fight poaching. Make a donation to make a difference without a black hawk.
The link to donate is at the bottom of article linked to above, but here it is for ease and convenience: https://crowdfunding.justgiving.com/Roger-Gower

I have made a donation toward this worthy effort. Every little bit helps.

Roberta Olenick
www.neverspook.com
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by Paul Fusco on Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:17 pm
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Here's a thought,

Would NSN, as an organization, be willing to draft and send a formal letter to all upper levels of the US government to ask that they please start to address this loathsome situation? Maybe that letter should also go to all of the conservation groups that are continually asking for money. As a matter of fact, maybe it should also go to Pentagon, to INTERPOL, to all of the media outlets, and to anyone else that might begin to pay attention.
I would sign my John Hancock to it.

Paul
[b]Paul J. Fusco
NSN 0120[/b]

NSN Portfolio
http://www.naturescapes.net/portfolios/portfolio.php?cat=10317
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by neverspook on Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:16 pm
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Interesting idea, Paul. I am not a member of NANPA, but maybe they could do the same. I am not sure how many members naturescapes has, but if a bunch of wildlife photographers signed -- and since wildlife photographers who go to Africa bring in tourist dollars to that continent -- maybe it will have some impact. It could also go to those African nations pushing to be able to sell off stockpiles of ivory, if there are any left from past elephant culls.
elep
This really is a thorny issue with the high price of ivory, the involvement of organized crime/terrorist groups, the vast area that needs anti-poaching patrols, rampant corruption among some officials in elephant range states and ivory importing nations, the increasing demand for ivory as the Asian wealthy class grows and the slow change of attitude among Asian nations toward endangered species. None of these is an easy link in the chain to address.
In the 1980s, when a total ban on ivory was implemented, poaching rapidly declined and elephant populations started to recover. Then CITES allowed that one-off sale of stock-piled ivory from certain African nations that wanted the revenue (while Kenya and Tanzania were strongly opposed to this sale) and it became all too easy to launder poached ivory as legal ivory. Even allowing sale of old, pre-1980s ivory allows for laundering.

Clearly there needs to be a total ban on all ivory so it becomes worthless, but implementing that is obviously not a task that will happen very soon or very easily. It seems almost impossible at the moment, but then stranger things have happened when tipping points are reached. We need some sort of tipping point among ivory consumers. It needs to become uncool, low status to buy ivory. That will need to come from within Asia to be effective, sort of like the purported slow change in attitude toward shark fin soup that I hope gains even more ground.

Apparently ivory in Chinese means "tooth" so that many Chinese people think the ivory just falls out like teeth or can be obtained without killing elephants. I find that sort of ignorance so hard to imagine, but then I am a zoologist in Canada where we all know where ivory comes from and ivory does not mean "tooth" in English. Some rebranding of ivory in Chinese to something that translates as "face removed from slaughtered elephant" might be helpful if this language thing really is elemental.

Some heavy duty trade sanctions against nations that buy ivory would be good too. Not just sanctions by the US, but global sanctions against ivory consuming nations. (Though everything you buy these days is made in China. Maybe such sanctions would stimulate the lagging Canadian manufacturing sector to make up the loss in consumer goods.)

Or maybe something even more drastic is needed though I don't know what that would be exactly.

Roberta

Roberta
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by pleverington on Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:20 pm
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Roberta your a jewel....Not only are your commentaries thoughtful and insightful, but you are so grounded in your attitude. I love your presence here at NSN......

OK...I just donated 50 dollars (35 lbs GBP) to the cause. I put as my name ......my full name plus after that I typed in "NSN member"....


I feel this is an opportunity for these elephants....

So here is what I am going to do.......

I challenge every single member of NSN to donate 50 dollars US to this cause ...

I challenge the people who moderate this site to donate 50 dollars to this cause....

Greg Downing
EJ Peiker
Greg Basco
KK Hui
Alan Murphy
Jim Urbach
Graeme Guy
Guarav Mittal
Missy Mandel
Carole Clarke
Cindy Marple
John Labrenz
Matthew Pugh
Tom Whelan
Gary Briney
Cynthia Crawford

Forget that there may be this in your way or that....we are a force...an untapped power to evoke change...close the eyes and donate ...

Who here on this site could not donate a measly 50 dollars??? Is that above anyone's ability??  A man gave his life....Thousands of  beautiful elephants gave their lives...and many left children....Now is everyone's opportunity to speak...to be heard...to say to the rest of the world...STOP...........


I challenge each and every member here who so professes to love nature to send a message of caring and love for one of this planets most beloved and incredible wonderful creatures.....There's not a member here who can't afford 50 stinking dollars......

When you donate and type in your name, also type in NSN member after that name so that the whole world will see that and want to know who we are and what we represent....

Paul


***Still wish for a black hawk.......
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
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by pleverington on Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:04 pm
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https://crowdfunding.justgiving.com/Roger-Gower


Click the link.....I am there....for 50 bucks....And see that I also tagged my name as a NSN member.....


Where are the rest of you????

Listen to me...... in a week from now the media will have forgotten this man who died who was slaughtered....right now he's headline news........ this is why you must act immediately..... his sacrifice only lasts so long...doesn't that suck.........the same thing happens to the elephants...




Don't allow yourself to be media driven!!!! Give a darn..... now......not someday...........

NOW!!!   Please....for everything that you are worth......


Paul
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
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by Paul Fusco on Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:21 pm
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IThank you for your insight, Roberta. 
With all due respect, Paul, what you are suggesting is nothing more than a feel good response. This issue is so huge that it needs a big- time and immediate response. Throwing a few measly dollars at it will not solve anything. Have you taken the time to research the details of what is going on? 
The fact is that poaching and trafficking ivory is an international crime. It needs to be dealt with as such with an organized international response. Arresting a few poachers on the ground will not solve.this. And waiting for a cultural change in China is not going to make a difference because it will never happen fast enough. There will always be up and comers in the Chinese economy that will pay for the status symbol of owning their own ivory trinkets. The international traffickers need to be held accountable. That can only be done thru an international investigative force. And China itself has to stop making excuses for why it continues to subsidize the ivory carving factories. 
The problem is international. I am also against the sale of stockpiled ivory. When sold off it just creates and sustains a market for ivory. Any stockpiles should all be destroyed. 
Paul
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by neverspook on Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:57 pm
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Thanks, Paul and Paul, for your appreciative comments on my comments.

I was moved my Paul Leverington to increase the donation I already made anonymously in memory of Roger Gower. I used to work as a fund raiser for an eNGO and I have to hand it to you, your pointing out that Gower gave his life and so giving $50 is not much in comparison to that (and not much in comparison to what we all spend in cameras and lenses and travel to see wildlife).

I also see Paul Fusco's point that if we give $50, feel we've done are part, pat ourselves on the back and leave it at that, then our donation is just a guilt relief mechanism. There is nothing wrong with relieving guilt per se if it leads to something like donating to worthy causes. But it is also important not to lose sight of the fact that the problem has not gone away even if our guilt has.

I don't agree that donating $50 is a worthless gesture though. If enough people give $50, then we have $5000, or $50,000 or $5 million, sums that can accomplish something. In this instance, at the very least, we pay homage to a brave pilot who really did try to make a difference. Our acknowledgement of that matters, if only as encouragement/morale boost to the other brave people with boots on the ground in the war to save elephants.

And Paul F, I agree that removing a few poachers will not in and of itself stop poaching. It will, at least for a time, save the lives of a few individual elephants - until some other poverty stricken person is recruited into poaching. I think saving those elephant lives matters. It matters to those elephants who, as social beings like us, want to see their babies grow up and who need time to impart as much knowledge as they can about where to find food and water etc to their descendants.And maybe in the extra time they gain from the arrest of a poacher, they can manage to reproduce and add another very much needed individual to a population that is so tragically and rapidly declining.

And it also the case that the arrested poacher might prove to be a useful informant leading to someone higher up in the hierarchy of the poaching rings and catching those higher ups can be critical in the war against poaching.

IMHO, in environmental work, everything matters. And everyone matters. We need everyone who is willing and offering to do what they can and what they feel called to do. If giving $50 is the only thing a person feels able to manage, then so be it and thank you so much for your kind donation. If flying a chopper and dying to save elephants is what you feel called to do, then thank you for your heroism. If you feel called to work as an undercover investigator figuring who the ivory crime bosses are, awesome. If you are a politician who can enact legislation against ivory sales, do it. If you are a photographer who can use your compelling images in the service of conservation, seek out audiences for that. If you are a writer/painter/sculptor, communicate that way. You just never know what little seemingly insignificant action will influence someone else to do something else that will affect yet someone else and so on. Maybe it is your poem that touches someone you never met but who has access to the levers of power to effect huge change and does so. You never know. Small actions and coincidences taken altogether build up to create tipping points and when points tip, so to speak, huge change can happen in an instant. (Check out Malcolm Gladwell's excellent book, The Tipping Point.)

And yes, huge change and seemingly insurmountable obstacles stand in the way of saving elephants. That is exactly why small steps as well as large international efforts are all needed and welcome, as far as I am concerned.

Roberta Olenick
www.neverspook.com
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by neverspook on Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:13 am
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While I stand by my immediately previous post, I also to some extend disagree with it, if that makes contradictory sense. So my post here relates to my comment in my first post in this topic that drastic action might well/probably will be needed to save elephants (and many other things).

Here is a joke from brilliant environmental author Derrick Jensen. He says:

How many environmentalists does it take to change a lightbulb?



Ten. One to write the lightbulb a letter requesting that it change. Four to circulate online petitions. One to file a lawsuit demanding it change. One to send the lightbulb lovingkindness™, knowing that this is the only way real change occurs. One to accept the lightbulb precisely the way it is, clear in the knowledge that to not accept another is to do great harm to oneself. One to write a book about how and why the lightbulb needs to change. And finally, one to smash the f@#&ing lightbulb, because we all know it’s never going to change.


In his joke as applied to elephants, the light bulb, of course, is the whole complicated system of poaching while those trying to change the bulb are your typical peacenik environmentalists. In his writings and talks, Jensen spoofs the usual sorts of attempts by environmentalists to save the planet, and calls for something more effective -- direct action, fighting back, rebelling against our current civilization/culture which is founded at its core on over-exploiting the planet and destroying life forms including our own.

He gives as an analogy trying to stop Hitler from killing Jews and invading nations. It is laughable to think writing Hilter letters and filing lawsuits against him would have stopped him for even a second. Jensen maintains big government and big environmentally destructive corporations are the Nazis of our time with nature their targets.

He has a funny video spoof about how the original script for "Star Wars" was written by environmentalists, except it wasn't called Star Wars because that was too violent - it was called "Star Non-Violent Civil Disobedience".  You can watch it here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSjwMr3SU4U or read the text of it here http://www.derrickjensen.org/work/endga ... star-wars/

In a very entertaining way, he makes the point that just as you could not have stopped Darth Vader from destroying planets by writing him a polite letter or filing a lawsuit calling on him to stop destroying planets, those tactics are similarly feeble and ineffective to save elephants from poachers, oceans from over-fishing, polar bears from climate change.  He argues that to save salmon, we need to remove the dams that block their spawning rivers. We need to do that to fight back against a culture that sees rivers as being there for people to use as they see fit regardless of the harmful consequences for other species and even for the next generations of humans.  We need to do that fast before it is too late for the salmon. We need to rebel against the destructive culture we are embedded in – and yet it is hard to rebel exactly because we are so embedded in it that we just take for granted/unquestioningly accept the underlying values of our Darth Vader-ish earth-destroying "civilized" culture.

I would love to know what specific direct actions Jensen would recommend to save elephants.

Another Jensen video that is very moving, inspiring and at times also funny can be found here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJxSrB8ghjM
It covers some of the same ideas as his Star Wars video in a more poetic and arguably more compelling way. In this one he gives the analogy of medical doctors in Auschwitz who cared about their Jewish prisoner patients and did whatever they could to help them EXCEPT the one thing that really would have helped them-- rebelling against imprisoning them in the first place. Freeing them. Embedded in Nazi culture, they just could not separate themselves enough to see Nazism for what it was clearly enough to fight back against it.

We are no different. We talk about loving the planet and wanting to avert the worst effects of climate change, for example, but most of us don’t stop driving our cars (mea culpa) or go monkey wrench oil rigs and fracking wells or take the other actions that are essential to rebel against and stop the all-powerful fossil fuel carbon-emitting juggernaut.  Instead, we sue Exxon for hiding the fact it knew decades before anyone that its product would end up frying the earth and write polite letters to Obama asking him to leave fossil fuels in the ground even as more and more public lands are opened to fracking.

Anyway, in the above video, Jensen has far more to say that the snippets I have mentioned and it is all inspiring and worth hearing. Give yourself the gift of taking the time to watch it and think about it. His is another voice, another viewpoint, and a very interesting and articulate one.

Yes, I know this post seems to contradict my previous “every little bit helps” post. It does. And both are true. We need big rebel actions and small timid actions, all of it. Everyone.

Roberta Olenick
http://www.neverspook.com

P.S. Further to Paul L’s suggestion that those who choose to donate to the pilot’s memorial anti-poaching fund should note that they are NSN members, I suggest spelling it out as naturescapes.net to be clear what NSN refers to, i.e. that it is not the National Security Network, for example (which came up at the top when I googled NSN). :) 
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by pleverington on Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:34 pm
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Paul Fusco wrote:
IThank you for your insight, Roberta. 
With all due respect, Paul, what you are suggesting is nothing more than a feel good response.
Mr Fusco that is pure nonsense. Yes it will make one feel better but it is not about that. Its about rolling up one's sleeves and getting proactive about something that person believes in....


This issue is so huge that it needs a big- time and immediate response. Throwing a few measly dollars at it will not solve anything. Have you taken the time to research the details of what is going on? 
The fact is that poaching and trafficking ivory is an international crime. It needs to be dealt with as such with an organized international response. Arresting a few poachers on the ground will not solve.this. And waiting for a cultural change in China is not going to make a difference because it will never happen fast enough. There will always be up and comers in the Chinese economy that will pay for the status symbol of owning their own ivory trinkets. The international traffickers need to be held accountable. That can only be done thru an international investigative force. And China itself has to stop making excuses for why it continues to subsidize the ivory carving factories. 
The problem is international. I am also against the sale of stockpiled ivory. When sold off it just creates and sustains a market for ivory. Any stockpiles should all be destroyed. 
Paul
Fine.....In the meantime Paul...you know between when we get China to change it's laws, catch and arrest the international traffickers, end Chinese subsidies for ivory carvers, stop the sale of stockpiled ivory, change Chinese culture....and now....how many elephants will die....??

From the Save the Elephant / Elephant Crisis Fund site:

"A renewed and virulent wave of poaching is threatening Africa’s elephants as their lives are taken for their tusks. Last year more than 30,000 elephants were illegally poached. This equates to one elephant every twenty minutes."


Well you can do the math Paul but you get the point... Hundreds of thousands of elephants will die playing it the way your suggesting. Not that what your saying is false, we all know it's right to do all those things your suggesting, and in fact there are efforts in progress to do so. But what I know that is also  right is that to save every elephant we can right now it's a boots on the ground fight....Don't believe it??? More from the Elephant Crisis fund site:

"To save elephants, we must identify and fund efficient actions that address the supply, trafficking and demand for ivory. Anti-poaching efforts are crucial to slow the killing of elephants in Africa. At borders, ivory must be seized and trade disrupted. Demand for ivory products has to be stopped in China and elsewhere to lower the price of ivory and remove the incentive to kill elephants. This approaches requires a coalition of effective organizations that can rapidly implement projects on the ground to save elephants."


Sounds to me they are saying it's in the trenches we must fight to save the elephant. And without MONEY there can be no fight....

And yeah my 50 bucks is a "measly" amount, but that rather misses the point does it not?? A hundred, thousand, or million 50 dollars would translate directly into a lot of elephants saved.. Period....

Paul L
Here's the Save the Elephant site:  http://savetheelephants.org/our-project ... otection|1
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"


Last edited by pleverington on Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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by pleverington on Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:38 pm
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I emailed the pilots brother I'll pass on what he says when I have it...
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:15 pm
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neverspook wrote:Interesting idea, Paul. I am not a member of NANPA, but maybe they could do the same. I am not sure how many members naturescapes has, but if a bunch of wildlife photographers signed -- and since wildlife photographers who go to Africa bring in tourist dollars to that continent -- maybe it will have some impact. It could also go to those African nations pushing to be able to sell off stockpiles of ivory, if there are any left from past elephant culls.
elep
This really is a thorny issue with the high price of ivory, the involvement of organized crime/terrorist groups, the vast area that needs anti-poaching patrols, rampant corruption among some officials in elephant range states and ivory importing nations, the increasing demand for ivory as the Asian wealthy class grows and the slow change of attitude among Asian nations toward endangered species. None of these is an easy link in the chain to address.


In the 1980s, when a total ban on ivory was implemented, poaching rapidly declined and elephant populations started to recover.  

1.  So we can all understand the chronology of all of this, would you, or anyone among us,  post a quick link or two that demonstrate(s)....

a.  the 1980's ban on ivory you are referring to ?
b.  that this 1980's ban was actually (in reality) effective ?


Then CITES allowed that one-off sale of stock-piled ivory from certain African nations that wanted the revenue (while Kenya and Tanzania were strongly opposed to this sale) and it became all too easy to launder poached ivory as legal ivory. Even allowing sale of old, pre-1980s ivory allows for laundering.

Clearly there needs to be a total ban on all ivory so it becomes worthless,........

2.  Does anyone know if an ivory ban will stop the slaughter ?  
3.  And if everyone agrees that such a ban would surely stop the slaughter, then why would it be difficult to implement such a ban again ? 
  
but implementing that is obviously not a task that will happen very soon or very easily. It seems almost impossible at the moment, but then stranger things have happened when tipping points are reached. We need some sort of tipping point among ivory consumers. It needs to become uncool, low status to buy ivory. That will need to come from within Asia to be effective, sort of like the purported slow change in attitude toward shark fin soup that I hope gains even more ground.

Apparently ivory in Chinese means "tooth" so that many Chinese people think the ivory just falls out like teeth or can be obtained without killing elephants.



I find that sort of ignorance so hard to imagine, but then I am a zoologist in Canada where we all know where ivory comes from and ivory does not mean "tooth" in English. Some rebranding of ivory in Chinese to something that translates as "face removed from slaughtered elephant" might be helpful if this language thing really is elemental.

Some heavy duty trade sanctions against nations that buy ivory would be good too. Not just sanctions by the US, but global sanctions against ivory consuming nations. (Though everything you buy these days is made in China. Maybe such sanctions would stimulate the lagging Canadian manufacturing sector to make up the loss in consumer goods.)

Or maybe something even more drastic is needed though I don't know what that would be exactly.

Roberta

Roberta
I struck through my comments/questions because, while I was writing them, I stumbled onto the Washington Post article I just posted regarding President Xi Jinping's ban.  Roberta, it seems that you have a good handle on different aspects of an ivory ban.

Would you be kind enough to comment on that Xi Jinping post I just made ? I am interested in getting your input in particular.  And of course, it would also be interesting to hear from the rest of you.  

Thank you
Robert
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by neverspook on Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:17 am
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Robert, can you provide the link to the Xi Jinping ban article you mention? I will have a look at it, but I in no way claim to be an expert on this issue.

Yesterday on Canadian Broadcasting Corp radio program As It Happens, there was an interesting interview with Roger Gower's brother about Roger's last moments including a poignant joke he cracked after he was shot, An amazing man and the interview is with listening to you. You can find it here http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as- ... -1.3428837

Roberta
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:30 am
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neverspook wrote:Robert, can you provide the link to the Xi Jinping ban article you mention? I will have a look at it, but I in no way claim to be an expert on this issue.

Yesterday on Canadian Broadcasting Corp radio program As It Happens, there was an interesting interview with Roger Gower's brother about Roger's last moments including a poignant joke he cracked after he was shot, An amazing man and the interview is with listening to you. You can find it here http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as- ... -1.3428837

Roberta
Here it is and I think most would like to know what you make of it.  Of course, I understand that you are not an expert.  But you have a better handle on it than I do for sure.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... edges-ban/

Forgot to mention that I also asked my friend the Wildlife Biologist what he thought of the article.  He suggests that the halving of ivory demand might only be due to the simple fact that the Chinese economy has been down for many months now.  But he also agrees that for the slaughter to stop or to be significantly diminished, it is demand that must be choked off.  So, as I think I said, my attitude of lethal action against the poachers may be to no avail.  The poachers probably do not want to kill these elephants but they have to feed their families and of course, they do see through the media, what the rest of the world has acquired with money.   

After all of this talk, we must realize that we are drawing many conclusions through surmising; i.e. we are not there.   Still trying to relocate a video I stumbled into 3 days ago showing poachers and those acquainted with them, explaining why they do this and why they do it.

At the very end of the video, an African man in a "western"  Polo-type jersey something like this:  "Give us jobs and we will not kill the elephants."  I thought to myself that what they need most from the "advanced" cultures ............ is the latest in birth control techniques.  Honestly, no joke intended.  They have as many children as they can, knowing that many will not survive.  But all of that is another subject and too long to be discussed here.

I will now have a look at Roger's brother's interview.  

Thank you.  
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