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by SantaFeJoe on Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:26 pm
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Now that I know that I’m in the winter of my life, with many more years behind than in front of me, there are a many things that I want to say about the outlook for the future. I’m not trying to be pessimistic or cynical, but I can see with open eyes the damages we have done to this planet and continue to do with seeming impunity. The bottom line always seems to be money. Below I am going to list some of the problems as I see them, while trying to keep it as brief as I possibly can. That’s not saying this will not be verbose.

We have polluted and pillaged the earth in so many ways, e.g.:
 
Plastic pollution that can never be undone to any even minor extent. The micro plastics that have been used in soaps and other things cannot possibly be recovered, nor can the broken down particles resulting from washing and wearing garments and other things made from recycled plastic and normal decomposition of litter. The oceans are so large that the plastic pollution will never be recovered before many creatures will ingest plastics and they will be passed up the food chain.
 
Oil spills that can never be thoroughly cleaned up, e.g. the Exxon Valdez and the Deepwater Horizon spills. Other oil spills that have polluted our waterways like the Yellowstone River.
 
Mining spills like the Gold King mine in southern Colorado and so many others that released lead and many other pollutants into the waterways. This can never be undone. Now the farmers are very concerned about what this means to them.
 
Fracking for oil that causes many earthquakes and who knows the extent of the problems caused to the underground aquifers in this country and others. We now have a glut of oil and the prices are so low that consumers are thrilled, but does this mean people are going to take advantage and travel more and create more pollution and more drilling? The oil export ban has been lifted and that is not good, IMO!
 
The pollution in our rivers that cause problems for people like those in Flint, Michigan that result in at least one lady registering a level of lead 3 times the level considered to be toxic waste. How can this water have not been thoroughly tested before it entered (or even after) the drinking water system? And what effect does this pollution have on our fish???
 
Use of nuclear materials in so many ways. In my earlier days, I used a Static Wisk brush on my lenses to remove dust and other particulates from my equipment. This brush was readily available over the counter and it contained polonium, the same material used to poison/kill the Russian gentleman 5 years ago. The WIPP (waste isolation pilot project) project in southern New Mexico was touted as a safe low level radiation disposal solution that would provide many jobs for the area. I asked a doctor friend of mine, who lived there at the time, why the local people supported the project. He said it would provide jobs and help the economy. I asked him if he had considered the risks to the area. He told me that it would be a disposal site for very low level radiation, about the amount emitted by an x-ray. I couldn’t believe that the people in the area didn’t know what they were in for. My friend no longer lives there, maybe not for the reasons I wouldn’t want to live there. There have been proposals to allow higher level radioactive materials to be disposed of there. I think that changed after they had a major problem that shut down the project due to a leak in a canister containing the waste material. Who could possibly think that storing steel barrels in a salt cave would be safe? Salt and steel don’t go together, do they??? Now the radioactive waste is piling up above ground because it cannot be buried there yet. And what about the waste generated from producing the so-called safe nuclear generated electricity? Where will it be disposed of?
 
Garbage disposal is a huge problem now. Several years ago, a company from NY or NJ was trying to purchase desert land near Deming, NM for $40 an acre to create a landfill for trash that would be shipped in by train from the east. We can’t even keep our garbage where it was generated. This isn’t only a problem for NM or the US, but the whole world.
 
GMO’s are running rampant!!! Read the threads I have posted on this forum to learn more. GMO alfalfa is spreading wild and corn is GMO corn is growing where it has not been planted. Monsanto will take farmers to court and win if GMO corn is found growing in their fields, even though they did not plant it. The seed producers are being bought up so that no non GMO seed can be easily obtained. Many people mistakenly think that GMO’s are supposed to be bug resistant. GMO’s are RoundUp ready crops that are sprayed with glyphosate to kill weeds and other plants that many insects, e.g. Monarch butterflies (Milkweed), depend on.
 
Air pollution, especially in China and India created, to a large extent, by our demand for cheap products from countries with very lax environmental regulations. The disregard for the health of the residents of those countries falls on all of us!
 
The weakening of the endangered species act is atrocious! We worked so hard to restore many endangered species, and now people with ulterior motives want to undo the ESA.
 
The proposals being put forth to give back control of federal land to the states. Who wins if that happens??? We all lose!
 
The extinction caused by the desire for money is a crime! The Northern White Rhino will be extinct any day now and the elephants, lions and tigers are not far behind. At present, elk, deer, caribou and moose antlers are bringing $13 a pound in my area and I’m sure much more elsewhere. How long will it be until the demand for antlers will start taking a toll on the populations of these animals???
 
And what about climate change?? That’s a big one!!! When will people simply acknowledge the reality and just say “It’s not worth the money we’re making to kill the planet for our children and succeeding generations!”??? As I said, I firmly believe that money and greed are the only driving force behind the problem!
 
I acknowledge that my outlook is grim and I’m really not hopeful, but we are fighting on so many sides that it feels like an unwinnable battle! We are all guilty, but many of us are burying our heads in the sand and not admitting that our problems are great and real. If I sound like a radical environmentalist, realize this. I only started paying attention to the state of the planet since starting to post on these forums. Really, in the last three years. I look back on life and realize that I was never really aware of the problems we face because I was too busy enjoying the freedom I was able to enjoy by getting out to the wild places on an almost daily basis. I never paid much attention to the changes that were taking place gradually (and not so gradually). Hopefully, it’s not too late to turn things around if we can keep money interests from dominating! For more on many of the topics I have covered, read my prior posts in this forum and, please, follow the links. Many people are not willing to click on the links, but they are critical to the points I am trying to make! I look forward to your responses and comments!
 
Joe
 
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
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by E.J. Peiker on Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:55 pm
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I largely agree with everything you wrote, One minor correction or at least it wasn't clear on this point:

"The pollution in our rivers that cause problems for people like those in Flint, Michigan that result in at least one lady registering a level of lead 3 times the level considered to be toxic waste. How can this water have not been thoroughly tested before it entered (or even after) the drinking water system? And what effect does this pollution have on our fish???"

The Flint River does not have lead in it! The piping system that gets water from the river to homes have lead in them. Lake Huron water did not have corrosive agents in it that dissolved the lead in the pipe but the river water does so when they changed over the supply it started corroding the pipes. The lead that is in the drinking water is from the pipes but was released into the domestic water supply by the change in water source.
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by WDCarrier on Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:57 pm
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Joe,

You and I are on the same wave-length (although I've been onto these problems since before the first Earth Day when I collected dead sea birds from the Santa Barbara oil spill and counted crushed pelican eggs from DDT poisoning on Anacapa Island). If the term "radical environmentalist" means someone who deals in facts, not fantasies; someone who believes in science, not religion; someone who thinks wealth is more than a stock portfolio; someone who isn't counting on a supreme being to pull us out of this mess through prayer; then I guess I am one too. Someone recently asked me to list my long-term goals. My response was, "At my age all my goals are short-term." I spend a good deal of my time talking to grade-school children about what was because talking about what is, is just too darn depressing.

I enjoy knowing you're out there and hope one of these days (short-term goal) that I can find my way to Bosque and meet up with you in person.

Dean Carrier
[font=Helvetica, sans-serif]“Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.” MLK[/font]
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by SantaFeJoe on Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:47 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:I largely agree with everything you wrote,  One minor correction or at least it wasn't clear on this point:

"The pollution in our rivers that cause problems for people like those in Flint, Michigan that result in at least one lady registering a level of lead 3 times the level considered to be toxic waste. How can this water have not been thoroughly tested before it entered (or even after) the drinking water system? And what effect does this pollution have on our fish???"

The Flint River does not have lead in it! The piping system that gets water from the river to homes have lead in them.  Lake Huron water did not have corrosive agents in it that dissolved the lead in the pipe but the river water does so when they changed over the supply it started corroding the pipes.  The lead that is in the drinking water is from the pipes but was released into the domestic water supply by the change in water source.
Thanks for the correction. I had actually heard that, but was too involved in writing this to remember!!! My mistake. In my neighborhood (65 year old neighborhood), the sewer pipes from the houses to the street are made of asbestos. This too is undoubtedly reaching the water system downstream.

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
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by SantaFeJoe on Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:50 pm
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WDCarrier wrote:Someone recently asked me to list my long-term goals.  My response was, "At my age all my goals are short-term." 

Dean Carrier
Good one, Dean!!!

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
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by Mike in O on Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:36 pm
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As an aside on your excellent write up....a lot of problems can be cured if we learn to be more efficient in our electrical production. Everything has a cost, there is no free lunch, but right now wind generation is industrializing our rural areas. Solar takes up huge chunks of land and uses rare earth (a major pollutant). Hydro destroys whole river ecosystems. Hydro carbons (thermal) has all sorts of problems from air pollution to extraction. Nuclear can be very scary. Conservation and efficiency are the only acceptable ways to move forward (as an example Germany uses 50% of US use).
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by Ron Day on Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:21 pm
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Joe, a great piece citing a number of compelling points.  Greed is an issue of morality, in my view.  To turn things around, there must be a change in the morals of society.  The wealthy, the rich, and the powerful know the difference between right and wrong.  Encouraging them to act upon it is the solution, but what miracle can bring that into being if the obvious destruction of our planet and its inhabitants can not?
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:50 am
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Joe,

For me, it is very encouraging that you see so much, know so much and express your indignation for our treatment of the planet......because if you saw this and picked up the torch, others may too.   Thank you from the bottom of my heart and please keep up the fight.  I think this is what it takes.  One of us is going to break through.  I am trying to break through in some way....in any way, to incite more people to take note and take action.  Or is it that people such as we here at NSN (and elsewhere) will simply continue to catch the hearts of others who in turn will do the same?  

Earth is the only place we have.  So we must continue to expose the truths about Earth's biosphere being destroyed.  And we need to begin a dialog on the problem of a still unbridled human population growth.   

If I may too Joe. here are a couple of my deepest concerns for the biosphere:

1.  There are not enough of the likes of Joe Roybal and WD Carrier and yes, Paul Leverington.  Well, really all of you....Roberta, E.J. and all the rest.  Apologize to who I overlooked this time.  No joke.   But if enough keep complaining, the word catches on and spreads.  And it is spreading, but not fast enough.

Persistence and determination are omnipotent. Thank you.

2.  ANTI-ENVIRONMENT RADIO...fueled by the insatiably rich.   

About two weeks ago, while driving, I inadvertently tuned into a station where I was elated to hear for the first time, what seemed to be conversation dedicated to bringing to light the destructions that man has inflicted on the biosphere and what should be done to heal these wrongs.  

But I had forgotten again that one of the weaknesses of capitalism is that those with the wealth get to pay for what they want the rest of us to think.

                                       We do need to somehow come up with constant funding for pro-biosphere radio.  How? 

Suddenly I realized I was listening to the same old attack on the biosphere that I can hear here in southern Maine, on WGAN, AM 560 all the time.  

This is the station what has carried that same nasty anti-biosphere rhetoric I have been hearing from Rush Limbaugh for the last several decades.  No, it was not Rush on this day.  But it is the same station.  The message is poisonous.   But I guess they sincerely believe their message.   It is greed-driven and it is disguised as coming from righteous people.  Few things anger me more in life than to hear this guy espouse all of his anti-biosphere lies, while espousing his American patriotism and brazenly claiming to be teaching us with "talent on loan from God".  

Give me a break!

The REALITY that is RUSH   
Clearly and inarguably, Rush Limbaugh is a mouthpiece for wealthy corporate industrialists who see the ESA of 1973 and all other nature conservation legislation as blocking their rabid, insatiable lust for more wealth.  

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02063.html

Here is where you learn who is actually paying Rush Limbaugh's $400 million salary so that he will spew his anti-biosphere poison.  

http://www.daveyd.com/articlesclearchan ... stein.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_talk_radio

Ok, I realize that there is good that comes from both sides of talk radio, conservative and progressive.  But it is unfortunate that "conservative" talk attacks the environment.  Why is this?

They pay him this salary because they know that for them to realize their goals, they must brainwash the American people into thinking that there is no way we could really destroy the biosphere.  Rush tells us that it is impossible for us destroy the biosphere (he does not use this word because he has not learned it yet) because God would not allow it.   And so these legislations meant to protect the biosphere are not necessary.  These industrialists, through Limbaugh, are brainwashing much of America into believing that these pro-nature laws are impeding progress and must be removed.

We need to remain diligent and persistent.  

I think I have a new word that is appropriate for today's world.  Or at least I think it is new.  It is Terra-indiustrialism or terra-industrialists or Earth-industialists.  It names the profession that must destroy the biosphere in order to make its profits.  It is the  business that can only see nature-conservation laws as barriers to its insatiable need for wealth.  It must find ways to get around nature-conservation laws.  Is there another name for it that has been around a long time?  I do not know.   These corporations are merging, becoming ever more powerful, because in capitalism, money is power. 

BACK TO THE RADIO CONVERSATION I INADVERTENTLY TUNED IN:  

It was another anti-environment talk show host and an associate who were speaking.  They carried on and on about "they", the scientists who have been warning us about Global Warming (GW).  These two cynically but skillfully attacked our scientists.  Then the host did something that was chilling to me, as he stumbled, caught himself and recovered:

He almost said that we should just wipe out what is left of nature here on Earth and just get on to the next planet as soon as possible.

Ok, you ask, how did I know he was about to say this if he did not say it?  Well, if you heard the dialogue, I think you would have come to the same conclusion I did.  He stumbled, realizing that what he was about to say would not be tolerated by the people.  And what he had said just before it, led me to put the rest together.  I was once confronted by a far-right-winged associate of mine (actually Jimmy and I are close friends in the heart; but we will never agree politically) who declared this same twisted thinking; i.e. 

.........that we need to extract everything we can from Earth because this will force us to move on to the next planet so we can exploit its resources too.  In other words, an ever-expanding human population requires increasingly more resources....energy.  Earth will not be able to support even the current growth in the human pop.

I am telling you will all earnestness, this is the way that at least some within the far right think.  I did say FAR.

We must always be aware of the existence of these people and their relentless objectives.  These are the people who are attacking the Endangered Species Act right now.  They are relentless, increasingly creative and insidious, with such proposals as transferring America's national land trusts to the states.   NO!  

Does this remind you just a little of a most recent President who seriously proposed privatizing the management of our National Parks?  If the parks began to fail  during these tough financial times, what do you think might be a suggestion offered by an American President who has wealthy roots and of course, wealthy friends?  And if these lands were sold, who do you think might be right there to buy them?  And if they bought them, do you think this might dramatically alter your privileges to these lands that are now yours ?

These are our most hallowed land tracts and must be handled very wisely......that is, if we want to keep them.  The $ value for America's national land tracts is incalculable and will only increase with time. We must be ever-watchful so that we do not falter, allowing the fox to get in charge of the henhouse.  

Folks of NSN.....the world is your studio :)  Or better, the Biosphere is your studio.  Rush tells us that we need not worry about destroying the Biosphere because God will not allow it.  Please, give me a break!

I think this all goes back to this.  But if there is a God, do you think God would want us to destroy that which God created?  

You who are reading this and thinking I am wrong, should take more time to find the truth for yourself. Please, do your own unbiased research.  I believe in my heart that you will come to the same conclusions.  But of course, to be convinced and certain, you must do it yourself.  I do not expect you to believe everything I say.  

3.  IVORY FUELS TERRORISM
This connection that we are seeing between ivory and terrorism is one that we must exploit as soon as possible.  Do any one of us have ideas on how to use this inarguable connection to force the political powers to form a coalition for military action against poaching?    

With oil down, does it make sense that terrorists are going to go after the elephants and rhinos even more aggressively than before.  Is it time for a coalition of special forces, maybe even drones ?   

I do not know.  Moments ago, I ran into entirely different news regarding ivory price.  Am going to post it now. 

4.  We must begin to work toward forcing our political leaders to begin talking about stopping human population growth.  Doesn't it make sense that politicians want more people because people vote ?  If so, we should not expect them to bring up the subject of human pop growth.  I like to say it is all for not without zero pop.

Here are the global human pop growth charts.  Pick your poison, because they all agree.

Robert King :)

Thanks again.



 
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by WDCarrier on Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:11 pm
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Ahh…Robert, you hit the nail on the head as to why things should be done and why things won’t get done when you indicated it was our responsibility to “work toward forcing our political leaders” to take the obviously necessary steps to ensure the future of our biosphere. Herein lies the problem:

• First, you have to believe our political leaders are intelligent enough and educated enough to understand the problem. If you think this it's obvious you haven’t been watching the debates or followed the action (or should I say inaction) of our current congress.

• Second, you have to believe their constituents are intelligent enough, educated enough and concerned enough to continue to vote for them when the necessary dire steps are taken to stop the destruction of our biosphere instead of insisting they cut gasoline taxes so they can drive bigger cars farther and more often.

• Third, you have to believe that the 62 richest people in the world (who have as much wealth as the poorest 3.6 billion, Time Magazine statistics) are willing to side with you and instead of financing ridiculous political campaigns to elect those who will work to increase their wealth, will volunteer to spend a good deal of their wealth to fix our broken environment.

• Fourth, you have to believe that both the politicians and their constituents understand that the word “infinite” does not apply to the earth’s natural resources.

• And fifth, you have to believe that the over 65% of the world’s population who believe in a God who blesses you for having more children, will take a second look at what such a philosophy is actually doing to them and the rest of the world’s people.

Given that, your efforts for a movement to correct our collapsing environment might have a chance. Unfortunately, I’ve become very pessimistic on that issue in my old age.
[font=Helvetica, sans-serif]“Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.” MLK[/font]
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by dissent on Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:40 pm
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Mike in O wrote: Conservation and efficiency are the only acceptable ways to move forward (as an example Germany uses 50% of US use).
Except that conservation and efficiency are not fuel sources and do not generate any energy by themselves; they are only part of how energy uses are managed from other sources. Is that 50% of German energy use on a per capita basis? Germany has roughly 1/4 of the population of the US.
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by Mike in O on Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:14 pm
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dissent wrote:
Mike in O wrote: Conservation and efficiency are the only acceptable ways to move forward (as an example Germany uses 50% of US use).
Except that conservation and efficiency are not fuel sources and do not generate any energy by themselves; they are only part of how energy uses are managed from other sources. Is that 50% of German energy use on a per capita basis? Germany has roughly 1/4 of the population of the US.
For your knowledge base
http://www.renewablesinternational.net/ ... 537/86823/
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by dissent on Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:14 am
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Mike in O wrote:
dissent wrote:
Mike in O wrote: Conservation and efficiency are the only acceptable ways to move forward (as an example Germany uses 50% of US use).
Except that conservation and efficiency are not fuel sources and do not generate any energy by themselves; they are only part of how energy uses are managed from other sources. Is that 50% of German energy use on a per capita basis? Germany has roughly 1/4 of the population of the US.
For your knowledge base
http://www.renewablesinternational.net/ ... 537/86823/
Thanks for the link. Don't think it makes your case that well. From your source -

The biggest difference in consumption, which is clearly visible within the US data, is air-conditioning anyway, which practically does not exist in Germany (where it is simply not needed). All of the US regions labeled “South” have much higher average monthly consumption levels resulting from air-conditioning. A fairer comparison would therefore include heat expenses, which are higher in Germany than in the southern United States. But Germany does not use much electricity for heat, so we would have to include expenses for oil and gas.

So Germany uses less electricity, because they have less to use it for. If the Germans don't need much AC, that's great. But I'm not gonna try to tell my family members here in the Midwest (let alone those folks in "the South") that they can't have air conditioning anymore because - efficiency like the Germans.

I don't disagree with your main point; certainly conservation and efficiency are important. But the power still has to be generated somewhere somehow before anyone can try to use it efficiently.
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by Mike in O on Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:27 am
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If you use AC, I hope it is with a heat pump and the 2nd biggest user is tank water heaters, everyone else in the world uses tankless on demand water heaters. Americans are extremely wasteful with power.
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by Paul Fusco on Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:42 pm
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How about making a requirement that young people can get some allotment toward college tuition if they serve in the Peace Corps or other international public service? That would give them at least a bit of education about how others live.
On the ivory poaching, I will say it again:
INTERPOL has an annual budget from western countries of about $160+/- per year. How about lobbying some billionaire to donate money and work with our military in order to create an international ivory/wildlife trafficking response squad that can take care of the exporters and money launderers? Cut off the head and the body will die. These people are egregious. They are ruthless in killing what amounts to almost a million African elephants in the last twenty years. There aren't that many left!
I am not confident that many of our current presidential candidates are even able to comprehend what is going on. It is really the tragedy of our lifetime. And, the big cats are on the fast track too.
P
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by pleverington on Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:25 pm
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yeah...yeah...yeah....

lets all complain about what everyone one else does wrong and cover up we ourselves do. Like we are so innocent.......

how many thousands of years has this thought process been going on???....

Start addressing your own personal philosophies for Christs sake...

Just the only one who has is Robert King IMO....

I doubt Santa Fe drives an electric car powered by solar panels, yet he could, considering he lives in a sunshine state. Bet he drives a oil guzzling hog...whats that say....Does he eat meat...you bet he does....and eating meat consumes most our agricultural land and is the number one source of green house gases?? Then yes he contributes to the problem.....Living in New Mexico which is hot...very hot I'll bet he uses air conditioning or a swamp box cooler....how about mud brick adobe instead  which kept people cool for thousands of years???  

Yeah we can all sit around and fault others can't we......But the reality is all you...and me...and every one else.....are the problem....

Your whining Joe makes me ill.........Stop it and deliver some solutions by example......



Paul
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by Mike in O on Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:14 pm
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give me a break Paul...do you wear a loin cloth, for go sex, and don't eat meat or vegetables which take up all our lands?
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:20 pm
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Paul Fusco wrote:How about making a requirement that young people can get some allotment toward college tuition if they serve in the Peace Corps or other international public service? That would give them at least a bit of education about how others live.
On the ivory poaching, I will say it again:
INTERPOL has an annual budget from western countries of about $160+/- per year. How about lobbying some billionaire to donate money and work with our military  in order to create an international ivory/wildlife trafficking response squad that can take care of the exporters and money launderers? Cut off the head and the body will die. These people are egregious. They are ruthless in killing what amounts to almost a million African elephants in the last twenty years. There aren't that many left!
I am not confident that many of our current presidential candidates are even able to comprehend what is going on. It is really the tragedy of our lifetime. And, the big cats are on the fast track too.
P
I agree with everything you have said Paul......100%!

It ain't over till its over....and it ain't over.  

Have not heard back from 3 Congressional people and the white house.  I agree.  I am not hopeful about what their answers will be.   

But there are several fronts that are fighting this, albeit not physically.  

I need help.  I have asked on this forum for input and few have even commented.  I think they are afraid of it.  But they cannot be as afraid as a family of elephants being slaughtered by AK-47's firing out of helicopter or the entire family languishing on the ground after being poisoned.   

Paul, you feel the same way I do about this.  I have thought about the following for quite some time:  

I PLEDGE THIS:  

If anyone here can find and get permission to use......an image of a baby elephant leaning against, or standing next to its dead mother, CLEARLY SHOWING THE HORRIBLE WOUND FROM HER TUSKS HAVING BEEN HACKED OFF HER FACE.........I will find a way to get that image printed to a huge size and I will get the necessary permit and personally picket here in Portland, Maine with that image.  


The short caption that will appear below the horrible image will be something like this:

     FEMALE ELEPHANTS MURDERED FOR TUSKS EVERY DAY !

TUSKS BRING $1500 PER POUND - POACHING FUELS TERRORISM !
  
    DEMAND COALITION MILITARY ACTION AGAINST POACHERS !


I need a little help !  Once I find the image I can get a local print shop to do the rest.  WHERE IS SUCH AN IMAGE?

Can anyone help with this image?  I need such an image.  Where is such an image ?  Just refer me to such an image.  I did not find one in my first google search.  I do not want to hear from one person here on why or how this will not work.  I will do this if I can find the image and get permissions.  I will need permissions to use the image and the permitting to picket.  This is a morbid image but that is exactly the point.

If such an image can be found, many people can do the same thing in their home towns.....FORCING THE GOVERMENTS TO TAKE ACTION

Robert King
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by SantaFeJoe on Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:05 pm
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pleverington wrote:yeah...yeah...yeah....

lets all complain about what everyone one else does wrong and cover up we ourselves do. Like we are so innocent.......

how many thousands of years has this thought process been going on???....

Start addressing your own personal philosophies for Christs sake...

Just the only one who has is Robert King IMO....

I doubt Santa Fe drives an electric car powered by solar panels, yet he could, considering he lives in a sunshine state. Bet he drives a oil guzzling hog...whats that say....Does he eat meat...you bet he does....and eating meat consumes most our agricultural land and is the number one source of green house gases?? Then yes he contributes to the problem.....Living in New Mexico which is hot...very hot I'll bet he uses air conditioning or a swamp box cooler....how about mud brick adobe instead  which kept people cool for thousands of years???  

Yeah we can all sit around and fault others can't we......But the reality is all you...and me...and every one else.....are the problem....

Your whining Joe makes me ill.........Stop it and deliver some solutions by example......

Paul
Paul Leverington

I find it highly amusing that you can presume to know me or anything about me that I have not posted in these forums!!! You are wrong on so many points that I feel I must address, though I shouldn’t have to do so in this thread. I must clarify things so that others will not have the wrong impression of me due to your nonsensical innuendoes and implications!!!
You imply that I am not claiming responsibility or that I’m pretending to be innocent of what I’m listing as problems. Read what I wrote and you will see what I really said:
but I can see with open eyes the damages we have done to this planet and continue to do with seeming impunity. 

We have polluted and pillaged the earth in so many ways,

Air pollution, especially in China and India created, to a large extent, by our demand for cheap products from countries with very lax environmental regulations. The disregard for the health of the residents of those countries falls on all of us! 

We are all guilty, but many of us are burying our heads in the sand and not admitting that our problems are great and real.
"We" and "our" are inclusive, are they not?

I have lived in an adobe house for 49 years. AC and swamp coolers were not used by me until 1999, and then only to comfort my dying mother in her house. At present, I use a small portable AC unit only when it is necessary. We live at 7000 feet (high desert, as determined by rainfall), and not in the low desert. I drive a 2010 Dodge Ram 1500, 2 wheel drive, 6 cylinder, basic truck with manual door locks and windows on which I have driven 42,000 miles in 5 ½ years (less than 8000 miles a year). I haven’t even driven to Bosque since early last summer. My wife has a 2010 Camaro 6 cylinder that has 16,000 miles since she bought it in July 2010 (less than 3000 miles a year). Insurance annually on the Camaro costs more than gas! Santa Fe is very involved with solar production of electricity, but I don't drive a hybrid since it doesn't suit my needs. Read the following links:

https://www.pnm.com/012116-sf-dedication

https://www.pnm.com/032415-sf-solar
 
I have no children, so no horses in this race. I have never flown on a commercial airline and the extent of my flying is a 10 minute ride with some aircraft mechanics after performing maintenance on a Cessna. I have not been west of Flagstaff, AZ since I was 5 years old, east of NM, other than Wichita, KS (once in 1974), south of the bootheel of NM/Douglas, AZ (1986) or North of Bozeman, MT (2001) since I was 5. I have no need for, nor have I ever had, a visa. My footprint is pretty small, in my opinion.
Do I eat meat? Definitely, but only about 2 steaks a year, some chicken, and some pork. This is not a conscious decision on my part, but rather a southwestern lifestyle. I do love hamburgers and a good stuffed sopaipilla with ground beef and green chile! So there you have a better picture of me now!
 
Your whining Joe makes me ill.
So take an Alka Seltzer and an Immodium and maybe it will help!!!

Joe
 
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
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by pleverington on Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:57 pm
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Wonderful Joe thanks for sharing. Yes the assumption was based on your many posts attacking big business and government that you put almost all the blame on them. This leaves an impression that that's what you think. Indeed your footprint is small, but I was never attacking that...only blaming others too much. It's not just you ...I  hear this all the time.....and it's old..  

I would like to hear more about what WE can do. That is something I can relate to as far as actually taking action...

Anyways Joe I don't disagree with any of your observations or concerns and worries...who could really...but what do we do about it?? I say direct our buying power so that these terrible things stop happening. God I wish I had your sunshine so that a lot of solar panels would work....


Paul

By the way by living in an adobe house you don't mean a real adobe house made of mud bricks do you?? Or is it more a stuccoed block house as I remembered most to be when I lived in Tucson..?
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
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by SantaFeJoe on Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:08 pm
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Real adobe, Paul, with no asphalt stabilization, like newer ones! My dad built the house and made many of the adobes himself.

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
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