« Previous topic | Next topic »  
Topic Locked  
 First unread post  | 18 posts | 
by Blck-shouldered Kite on Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:19 pm
Blck-shouldered Kite
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2669
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Maine
I would be shocked if you could find one tiny piece of ivory in Maine.  I've never seen one.  What do the rest of you say about where you live?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015 ... ities-nra/

Do any of you know?  I thought ivory was illegal across America.

http://legislature.vermont.gov/assets/D ... 8-2015.pdf
Topic Locked  

by Paul Fusco on Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:47 pm
Paul Fusco
Forum Contributor
Posts: 4504
Joined: 22 Aug 2003
Location: CT
I am sure illegal ivory trinkets can be bought in some big city back door markets. There are carving factories in China that still carry on their "traditional culture."
Stricter laws in the U.S. are being fought against by those with concerns about the selling of antique ivory which was brought to market prior to protection efforts. Some of those concerns come from the use of ivory in piano keys, billiard balls, and especially firearms inlays.
If the traffic in illegal ivory is to truly be brought to a halt, there has to be international consensus to do it. And it has to happen on a big front. The countries affected in Africa are not all well organized to fight the poaching, and most do not have the real capability to do so.
IMO, the western countries, including the U.S., need to step up in a concerted effort to fight poaching in a militaristic way, with the agreement of the affected countries. Because the trafficking is international with foreign interests doing the buying, the anti-trafficking fight should be carried out by an international crime fighting entity such as INTERPOL.
The U.S. and western governments should be looking into how to organize and start making big time arrests of the traffickers. Follow them back to their origin and cut off their market. It is the only way.
Paul
[b]Paul J. Fusco
NSN 0120[/b]

NSN Portfolio
http://www.naturescapes.net/portfolios/portfolio.php?cat=10317
Topic Locked  

by Blck-shouldered Kite on Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:13 pm
Blck-shouldered Kite
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2669
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Maine
Paul Fusco wrote:I am sure illegal ivory trinkets can be bought in some big city back door markets. There are carving factories in China that still carry on their "traditional culture."
Stricter laws in the U.S. are being fought against by those with concerns about the selling of antique ivory which was brought to market prior to protection efforts. Some of those concerns come from the use of ivory in piano keys, billiard balls, and especially firearms inlays.
If the traffic in illegal ivory is to truly be brought to a halt, there has to be international consensus to do it. And it has to happen on a big front. The countries affected in Africa are not all well organized to fight the poaching, and most do not have the real capability to do so.
IMO, the western countries, including the U.S., need to step up in a concerted effort to fight poaching in a militaristic way, with the agreement of the affected countries. Because the trafficking is international with foreign interests doing the buying, the anti-trafficking fight should be carried out by an international crime fighting entity such as INTERPOL.
The U.S. and western  governments should be looking into how to organize and start making big time arrests of the traffickers. Follow them back to their origin and cut off their market. It is the only way.
Paul
I greatly appreciate your expression of your attitude on this crisis.  

You may have seen my postings on this over the last several years.  I agree with you on the strategy necessary to stop this.  It is the only way left.  And this just may be what is going to happen:

It seems that the anti-poaching powers are stepping up their efforts.... getting nastier, more aggressive and even lethal.  

It has been proven that elephant poaching is funding terrorism and ISIS is terrorism.  The elephant slaughter funds ISIS.  So nations now realize that aggressively attacking elephant poaching will work toward de-funding ISIS atrocities.  

Oil is way down.  Ivory is up and stays way up.  Ivory sells for $1500 a pound and two tusks can weigh up to 250 pounds.  I was astounded when I did this simple math:

A single elephant, with large tusks, is worth DEAD, $375,000 !.......over a 1/3 million dollars.        

Thanks so much for your comments Paul.    

 
Topic Locked  

by OntPhoto on Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:05 pm
User avatar
OntPhoto
Forum Contributor
Posts: 7039
Joined: 9 Dec 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario. Canada.
Blck-shouldered Kite wrote:
Oil is way down.  Ivory is up and stays way up.  Ivory sells for $1500 a pound and two tusks can weigh up to 250 pounds.  I was astounded when I did this simple math:

A single elephant, with large tusks, is worth DEAD, $375,000 !.......over a 1/3 million dollars.        

   

 

Money is why people do this.  It is what drives it.  Money will make people do many things.
Topic Locked  

by Paul Fusco on Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:08 pm
Paul Fusco
Forum Contributor
Posts: 4504
Joined: 22 Aug 2003
Location: CT
The terrorism connection is mainly in West Africa where the poaching is ruthless. The killing of whole herds of fleeing elephants has been and still is being carried out with helicopters and machine guns. It's a human disgrace. And the west African elephant herds are almost gone.
Yes, money and greed are the driving forces. Poachers in East Africa and southern Africa are risking their lives for minimal amounts of money. The real money is with the traffickers and the traders in southeast Asia. It's at the point that the only way to combat this is with a concerted, organized, international effort. And it must also be ruthless. Tanzania has lost an average of 10,000 elephants per year in recent years and the killing is not slowing down. The ivory is almost entirely destined to China where the ivory is carved into trinkets in factory conditions. What a waste!
As if that is not enough, other wildlife is being poisoned at slaughters. Poachers have learned that circling vultures are tipping off the authorities as to the location of their camps. So they lace the dead elephant carcasses with poison to kill the vultures, and whatever else comes to scavenge. That means lions, leopards, hyenas, jackals, storks, eagles and more are also being killed. Most of Africa's vulture species are now on the red-list of critically endangered species. Just this month, lions have been added to the US Endangered and Threatened Species List, restricting imports of their parts, mainly from trophy hunting, to the US. Lions in West Africa are critically endangered, in East and southern Africa, they are threatened. All lion populations are in the middle of a long term dramatic decline.
Paul
[b]Paul J. Fusco
NSN 0120[/b]

NSN Portfolio
http://www.naturescapes.net/portfolios/portfolio.php?cat=10317
Topic Locked  

by Blck-shouldered Kite on Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:03 pm
Blck-shouldered Kite
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2669
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Maine
More must be done.

I just emailed the White House and Maine's Congressional Delegation, asking them to put together an international coalition of militaries, that would include helicopters and special forces to take out these devils.

I have used much of your message and some of mine.

I am now going on Facebook and asking folks to contact their Congressional delegates with the same request.

Thank you.
Topic Locked  

by Paul Fusco on Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:17 pm
Paul Fusco
Forum Contributor
Posts: 4504
Joined: 22 Aug 2003
Location: CT
Please let us know if you get a good response.
P
[b]Paul J. Fusco
NSN 0120[/b]

NSN Portfolio
http://www.naturescapes.net/portfolios/portfolio.php?cat=10317
Topic Locked  

by Blck-shouldered Kite on Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:34 pm
Blck-shouldered Kite
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2669
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Maine
Yes, I will tell you what I receive for responses.

Well Paul, the first response was entirely irresponsible, inattentive and careless.   This response shows that someone took a canned statement and did not bother to read my request.  I am even more convinced of this because each Congressperson requires you to choose a subject matter from a long drop down list.  This answer does absolutely nothing to respond to my request for an international coalition of military action to stop this horrible extinction.  I am calling this office tomorrow.  

Here it is the response I received:

Congresswoman Chellie Pingree <ME01CPIMA@mail.house.gov>5:50 PM (38 minutes ago)to ‪me‬
Dear Robert,  

Thank you for contacting me about the importance of protecting endangered species. I appreciate hearing from you. 

I share your concerns about the ongoing need to protect endangered animals. The Endangered Species Act (ESA) provides an essential safety net that has helped save numerous plant and animal species from extinction. Under the ESA, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the National Marine Fisheries Service maintain a list of plant and animal species that are at risk of extinction and place vulnerable species on the Endangered Species List, which ensures that any action does not jeopardize the continued existence of these species. 

America must meet its environmental challenges head on, and one of the most severe threats we face is the extinction of endangered species. Plant and animal species are tragically disappearing at alarming rates. It is estimated that over 40 percent of the world's species are at risk of extinction because of rampant and uncontrolled development, climate change, pollution, poaching and other threats. We must do everything we can to save our planet's endangered species and ensure that America's wildlife is preserved in a sustainable way for generations to come. As you may know, the monarch butterfly population, which numbered over a billion in 1996, has plummeted dramatically over the past two decades. This year’s overwintering count estimated the second lowest population since surveys began in 1993. That is why in March 2015, more than 50 of my colleagues joined me in sending a letter to President Obama urging the Administration to make every possible effort to restore the monarch butterfly. Specifically, we believe that the Endangered Species Act represents the best chance to save this amazing species, unifying and coordinating conservation efforts, and bringing much-needed resources and funding for monarch conservation. 

As you may also know, in June of 2013, the U.S Fish and Wildlife Service proposed to remove gray wolves from Endangered Species Act protection. That is why in December 2013, I joined more than eighty of my colleagues in sending a letter to Interior Secretary Sally Jewell to oppose this proposal. There is substantial scientific evidence that gray wolves have not fully recovered in the lower 48 states and it is my sincere hope they get the protection they need. Additionally, in March 2015, I joined my colleagues in again urging Secretary Jewell to listen to scientific experts and modify the June 2013 proposed delisting of gray wolves to instead downlist the species to threatened status. This approach resulted in the successful recovery of the bald eagle, and it is my hope that it would work to allow states increased certainty and flexibility in managing wolves while also ensuring the species can continue to recover. 

Maine's forty-five threatened or endangered species are an important part of our state's ecosystem. Several animal populations native to Maine, including the Atlantic puffin and the golden eagle, continue to recover due to the protection they receive as threatened or endangered species under the ESA. I am committed to protecting vulnerable species of animals, fish, and plants to ensure a rich conservation legacy for future generations and will continue to defend the Endangered Species Act and America's wildlife. 

I have long been an advocate for conservation and wildlife protection, and I look forward to working with my colleagues on these important issues. Thank you again for being in touch, and I hope to see you in Maine soon. 
 

Sincerely,
Chellie Pingree
Member of Congress

____________

More later.
Robert
Topic Locked  

by SantaFeJoe on Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:47 pm
User avatar
SantaFeJoe
Forum Contributor
Posts: 8622
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere Out In The Wilds
Talk about a canned response!!!! That's totally ridiculous, inexcusable and irresponsible!

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
Topic Locked  

by Blck-shouldered Kite on Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:04 pm
Blck-shouldered Kite
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2669
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Maine
There are just 4 Congresspeople in Maine. The other 3 have also sent answers but they are 1 to 2 sentence acknowledgements that they received my request.

Hope to hear more from these 3 later.
Topic Locked  

by Paul Fusco on Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:22 pm
Paul Fusco
Forum Contributor
Posts: 4504
Joined: 22 Aug 2003
Location: CT
I would like to know what kind of real effort is being made by the big conservation groups that are always asking for money.
I know that INTERPOL has an annual budget of around $160 million to carry out their projects. How open is their group to taking on the assignment of tracking down ivory kingpins if given some new money?? An international wildlife crimes task force is what we need.

I think part of the problem with the US congress is that they shy away from big issues. Especially those that they may not understand. Maybe they all need to be educated about the situation. At this point I would not count on them to accomplish anything.

P
[b]Paul J. Fusco
NSN 0120[/b]

NSN Portfolio
http://www.naturescapes.net/portfolios/portfolio.php?cat=10317
Topic Locked  

by Blck-shouldered Kite on Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:29 pm
Blck-shouldered Kite
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2669
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Maine
Paul Fusco wrote:I would like to know what kind of real effort is being made by the big conservation groups that are always asking for money.
I know that INTERPOL has an annual budget of around $160 million to carry out their projects. How open is their group to taking on the assignment of tracking down ivory kingpins if given some new money?? An international wildlife crimes task force is what we need.

I think part of the problem with the US congress is that they shy away from big issues. Especially those that they may not understand. Maybe they all need to be educated about the situation. At this point I would not count on them to accomplish anything.

P
Agree with everything you said.  Just very tired now and have several other issues to deal with too.  Will get back to this though.  

Yes, it is very frustrating to not make much progress on this ..... easily the greatest wildlife tragedy in my lifetime.  EASILY!  Nothing at all in my entire life comes close, as a deliberate annihilation, to this ongoing murdering of elephants and rhinos.   And we have continued to allow it to go on and on and on.

This elephant/rhino slaughter is a disgrace to humanity.   It is shocking that there are devils so evil that they would carry out these acts over and over.  

But even more shocking is that the rest of humanity has allowed them to get away with it, year after year.  

Elephants are among the most intelligent animals on Earth.   Have you who read this ever asked yourself, what can elephants possibly be thinking as they are relentlessly MURDERED my humans?  Have they been pleading with all their hearts for help from humans and in total confusion why these humans are doing this to their families and why other humans have not stopped it yet ?

Countries should have already been deeply involved in a counteroffensive to poaching.  But it has not come.  

Why?

I am unable to accept that Americans, and the entire rest of the world... are not incensed by this.  

It is shocking that here, relatively few people come over to this forum and get involved with the plight of the elephants.  Why?

There are people here who photograph elephants and rhinos.  Please get involved here in discussing ways to stop this most horrible of all slaughters.

Entire families of elephants are slaughtered.  Formerly, the babies were left to be taken in by the David Sheldrick Wildlife Trust....and many of those just died of broken hearts....even while receiving tender care at the Sheldrick shelter.   Now,  with the poachers resorting to poison, the baby elephants and all the wildlife are murdered.





Please get involved.  I know it seems like you cannot do anything about it.  I feel the same way.  But just an ongoing discussion will likely bring out ideas and suggestions.   The good news is that just lately I have seen something I was previously unaware of:  As I begin to become more vociferous about this to my everyday contacts here in Maine, I am finding that people are just not aware that these horrors are occurring.  So, if we can get this word out to more the people, we can probably force government to take the counteroffensive acton that is needed.  We cannot continue to let this happen to these animals that we love and are supposed to be sharing the Earth with.  
   


You are right Paul, Congress is not going to do a thing about this.... unless we make them.  Just a few cannot do this alone.  Who else is going to step out?  Together, how do we make Congress act on this ?  Enough is enough.  

The slaughter of elephants and rhinos is funding terrorism.  That is reason enough for a coalition of free countries to act on this.  Obama should be working on  getting other countries involved....a coalition.  

Don't Presidents now form coalitions to justify beginning wars in countries?   

Which is more important, the warring in the Middle East or stopping the extinction of the elephant and rhino species?   


Robert King

    
Topic Locked  

by Blck-shouldered Kite on Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:38 pm
Blck-shouldered Kite
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2669
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Maine
Here is a second reply.  It is even more unrelated to elephants than the first one from Shellie Pingree.   The word  "elephant" does not appear one single time in the body of this letter.   Everything in this letter is domestic to America and to Maine.  Nothing at all relating to international or world wildlife issures......ZIP.    What do you make of this ?   


Here are my thoughts:  I do not think they even read the letter I wrote.  That is the reason that these Congressional people have drop down menus on their websites.  You choose a general issue-category from the drop down list,  and that gives them a bunch of canned letters for the Congressional assistants to choose from.  What say you?  At the end of this letter he states that if I have any concerns, do not hesitate to bla, bla, bla, bla.  


Yes sir, I do have just one concern.  Why didn't you read the letter I sent you ?  Worse, why did you try to make us believe that you did ?

I have I think two more Congressional replies coming and one from the white house.  

I'LL BET YOU ALL A NICKLE THAT THE WHITE HOUSE REPLY WILL BE SPECIFIC TO THE ELEPHANT POACHING.  IF IT IS, THEN YOU CANNOT ARGUE THAT THEY DID NOT READ IT.  RIGHT?

BRUCE POLIQUIN
2nd District of Maine



426 Cannon House
Office Building
(202) 225-6306
(202) 225-2943

January 28, 2016


Mr. Robert King
138 E Commonwealth Drive
Portland, ME 04103-1260

Dear Mr. King:

Thank you for taking the time to share with me your concerns about the Endangered Species Act. Understanding your view on this important issue helps me better represent you and our fellow Mainers in the U.S. House of Representatives.

Like you, I believe that it's critical to protect our wildlife and animals. Growing up in central Maine, I spent much of my childhood outdoors and in the woods. I cherish Maine's pristine natural environment and the home it provides to our diverse wildlife population. I still remember my first face-to-face encounter with one of our iconic moose. I was four - playing in the sandbox behind a neighbor's house!

Later in life while raising my son, Sam and I were eager to explore Maine's Great Outdoors through our welcoming state and national parks, clear rivers and lakes, stunning coastline, and breathtaking mountains. While hiking, fishing, paddling or camping, we were always on the lookout for that thrilling chance to share our environment with Maine's wildlife. Like generations of Maine kids, Sam learned to appreciate the special creatures with whom we share our planet. He still recalls his first encounter with a huge soaring bald eagle, diving to feed along the winding Kennebec River. Maine families are fortunate to share our air, land, and waters with such majestic creatures.

Every year, a number of proposals related to the Endangered Species Act are introduced in Congress. Please know that I am following these issues closely and will be sure to keep your input and comments in mind with every vote I make in the House.

Again, thanks for taking the time to reach out to me. If you have any concerns in the future, please don't hesitate to contact our Congressional Offices in Bangor, Lewiston, Presque Isle and Washington, D.C. I'm honored to represent you in Congress.

Best wishes,

Bruce Poliquin
Topic Locked  

by SantaFeJoe on Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:42 pm
User avatar
SantaFeJoe
Forum Contributor
Posts: 8622
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere Out In The Wilds
Here are a couple of links that may be of interest to you, but I'm not sure how current the info is:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/storie ... /ivory-law

http://mirappraisal.com/new-regulations ... ory-sales/

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
Topic Locked  

by pleverington on Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:56 am
pleverington
Forum Contributor
Posts: 5355
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Hey Robert......

Compose a handwritten letter, not typed, and send via snail mail. And write it up where the reader will have some idea of who wrote the letter. Evoke some empathy by developing your character as one who is hurt by what is going on with the elephants.. Somehow you have to excite the readers attention...But digital media doesn't have the personal touch as a hand written letter would. And if just a handful of letters from you and some other people arrived in front of the congresswoman or whoever else...... that would be rather powerful....


Paul
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
Topic Locked  

by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:36 pm
Blck-shouldered Kite
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2669
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Maine
SantaFeJoe wrote:Here are a couple of links that may be of interest to you, but I'm not sure how current the info is:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/storie ... /ivory-law

http://mirappraisal.com/new-regulations ... ory-sales/

Joe
Ok, thank you Joe
Topic Locked  

by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:37 pm
Blck-shouldered Kite
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2669
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Maine
pleverington wrote:Hey Robert......

Compose a handwritten letter, not typed, and send via snail mail. And write it up where the reader will have some idea of who wrote the letter. Evoke some empathy by developing your character as one who is hurt by what is going on with the elephants.. Somehow you have to excite the readers attention...But digital media doesn't have the personal touch as a hand written letter would. And if just a handful of letters from you and some other people arrived in front of the congresswoman or whoever else...... that would be rather powerful....


Paul
Paul, when I think about it....you make a good point.  And I may do that down the road.

Got a lot done today on this issue.  

Thank you.
Topic Locked  

by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:50 pm
Blck-shouldered Kite
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2669
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Maine
I believe Roger Gower's death will be a turning point toward the end of this horrible poaching.  It seems that such a man never dies in vain.  

There may be an elephant refuge named after Roger Gowers, as there should be !

Sent another letter to the White House, this time to the President, asking for same coalition offensive action.  Many people are asking the President for help for the elephants.  I'll bet a nickel his mind is being seeded and swayed.  

We are not asking for an all out regional war.  We just want a small group of very subversive special units with special equipment......and lethal results.  You might even throw in a drone for surveillance.  

Also, I believe Senator's King and Collin's responses will be solid and sincere.  

We will see. 

Persistence and determination are omnipotent.

Robert
Topic Locked  

Display posts from previous:  Sort by:  
18 posts | 
  

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group