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by Mike in O on Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:01 pm
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Malheur NWS HQ (oldest in the US) has been taken over by Nevada, Idaho, and Montana rightwing hate militias after their protest in Burns was disrupted by local residents throwing pennies on the ground as protest.as they marched.
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-north ... _big-photo
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:51 pm
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Glad to see this thing is coming to a head.  It has been a long time.  

This guy has the audacity to decide he is not going to pay anymore grazing fees but he is going to continue to graze.  Next he will be telling us (the American taxpayers who own the land) that he owns the land...if he has not already.  

I am tired of cattlemen crying about their lot.   I do not want them on that land in the first place!!!!

They are squatting on wildlife habitat and damaging the habitat.   

I think (and hope) that Mr. Bundy is underestimating the current administration...trying to set a precedent.  

He is gambling.   And it is a gamble that I sure hope he loses.

Glad it is finally  coming to a head.  I hope cattlemen in the future will wish he never raised a stink.  

Let me put it another way:  There are many Americans (yet unheard from)  who are going to start yelling out the other side of this story if this guy gets away with this.  The Center for Biological Diversity is likely to sue the government if they do not put their foot down on this guy.

This land belongs to all Americans and it is a National Wildlife Refuge.  

Mr. Bundy is delusional.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff

Robert :x
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by Mike in O on Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:22 pm
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The militants are trying to bring children into their captured HQ building as human shields...the police need to hit hard and fast and not let this drag on or it will become another Waco.  Another step would be to stop conveys from arriving, put the participants on the no fly list and potentially make it harder for them to get guns in the future.
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:40 pm
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One of the news reports wrote this:

"This has, naturally, led to accusations of terrorism by those online who see Bundy’s actions as unlawful, to put it mildly. Those people also believe it is groups like blacks and Muslims who are typically and often unfairly associated with the word. Outrage grew over both a lack of response from the National Guard, as well as the mainstream media’s avoidance of issuing labels where white people are normally concerned."

Good point they make. And good point you make...hit hard and fast and do not let it drag on. We can only hope they do not use the children. Now that you brought it up Mike, I am going to watch the news tonight. I almost never watch the news.
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:55 pm
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Last edited by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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by Mike in O on Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:07 pm
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Our local TV station has been getting reporters in (NY times used her pics). Burns is the next town going east from Bend, a 130 mile drive (no other towns between the 2 cities, a lot of wild country).
http://www.ktvz.com/
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by walkinman on Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:34 pm
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"With over 320 bird species Malheur is a mecca for birdwatchers ..."
Now they've done messed with birders ... and EVERYONE knows birders are crazy and not to be messed with.
[i]"Let he without stones cast the first sin"[/i]

[url=http://www.skolaiimages.com]Portfolio[/url]
[url=http://www.expeditionsalaska.com][b]Expeditions Alaska[/b] - Alaska Backpacking Trips and Photo Tours[/url]
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by Mike in O on Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:20 pm
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Birders are preparing a major offensive at dawn, pre-empting the Feds.
http://www.breakingburgh.com/enraged-bi ... offensive/
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by bradmangas on Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:24 pm
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I will do my best to bit my tongue as much as possible on this. First of all, to start a conversation by characterizing the involved parties as ” rightwing hate militias” shows nothing more than an inability to have a conversation to begin with. I am somewhat surprised the comment has remained. Even the comment about pennies being thrown down as to the reason for the protest being disrupted is completely inaccurate.

Secondly, each comment thus far picks up at what is now the end of this long dispute. If there are opinions that take in to considerations the “facts” not personal judgement than this could be beneficial for some or anyone who is interesting in understanding how our Bureau of Land Management and  Federal Wildlife Service can operate when they believe the law does not apply to them. 

Beginning shortly after 1964 and coming into fruition in 2011 with the appointment of the then Oregon State Attorney General Amanda Marshal by the President, there is a very long list of detailed incidents that lead to the reasons for what is happening currently. Incidents that have taken place not over weeks, or months, but years. The then Attorney General of Oregon, Amanda Marshal, left her position on March 15, 2015 while under investigation by the Department of Justice and has quietly slipped in to obscurity.  

Yes this is a very deep story, one that would behoove anyone well to learn all the facts of not just the headlines if they want to understand what is going on and why. Other than that this would just be gripping session.

I fully understand this in not the place to carry on such a heated non-photography related debate such as this, but some things should not be left unsaid.
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by Mike in O on Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:20 pm
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In a previous interview the patriarch of the Bundy clan (radical mormons from Nevada) stated that the colored were much better under slavery...if this militia represents your views (pre-Dred Scott decision) then you live in the wrong century.  This is a hate group from a radical sect that tries to bully law biding citizens to do their bidding and a John Wayne needs to ride into town.
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:02 pm
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"This is a hate group from a radical sect that tries to bully law biding citizens to do their bidding and a John Wayne needs to ride into town."

This quote is accurate.  There is no subjectivity to the quote.  The Bundy clan has clearly identified who they are.  They are aggressive outlaws.  

That is one of the problems in this country; i.e. as an example....the bad guys get their face blurred out in the news cast while the good guys get grilled.  That might not be a perfect example but you get the point.  Bundy is the bad guy.  Nobody else made it that way.  He did.  

Most of us would think what forcing one's way into a public establishment with semi-auto shoulder weapons and taking it over "shows an inability to have a conversation in the first place."

Bundy and his clan are lucky that Obama is of the nature he is.  Let me put it this way.....if either Reagan or W were in office, this whole matter would be done with and on the books.  That simple.  There is nothing subjective about that.

As I think I said before...Bundy is gambling and in the end I hope he loses in a big way without anybody on the other side getting hurt.  He is a trouble maker..  

And this IS a wildlife/photography topic.  He is squatting on land that is designated as a National Wildlife Refuge and we photograph nature.  I want him out of there permanently!  Gone!  I am tired of him squatting on wildlife habitat and stating that he is taking it over and it does not belong to us in the first place.  


Robert King
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by bradmangas on Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:09 pm
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It is entirely up to each person to be informed of the facts of this matter if they so choose to be. Some will chose to be, some will just make personal attacks due to lack thereof.
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:13 pm
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Brad,

I really do not want to argue either.  BTW.....looked at your website and you have some very nice photo decor images of nature scenes.   You obviously have a special flair for that type of photography.  

Getting back to it:  Your opinion is as good as mine Brad.  And I respect you and your opinion.  I probably should have used less words in the above statement.  They would be this: I do not like Bundy at all.  I want him the H off that wildlife refuge for good.  He stands for the exact opposite that I stand for.  

Your turn Brad :).  BTW, that is my last comment about this.  I do not like the stress :)

I am a friend to anyone who loves nature.  

You are one who loves nature.  I do not want to argue with you.   Have a good day. :)

Robert
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by bradmangas on Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:23 pm
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Hey Robert don't stress out, debate is a good thing. I never take things like this being discussed online personal for the exact same reason, nobody needs the stress. So don't stress out on a little more info which is not directed at you or any one person it is just information, not judgment. You have a good day too.
---

I see this as complaining about one of the last chapters in the story without giving any regard to any other portion of the book. There are documented accounts too numerous to even begin posting here which anyone is free to find and read if a complete story is wanted. Why anyone would not want to know all the facts may be due to other motives beyond this issue.

If one has taken a moment to attempt to understand what I have put forth so far you should be able to see no emotionally charged or personal vindication is placed towards any individual. There is a reason for this, it is called dialog based on facts as they have presented themselves to the public. Emotionally charged personal judgment eludes this and thus becomes opinion. Even if based on facts its merit is severely diminished.

As for interest in and the effects on wildlife, there are facts pertaining to this as well. I would suggest one fully understand the laws of eminent domain for a complete comprehension.

1964 - This started as a water usage rights issue.

1964 - 1970 - Continued as a water usage rights issue with many changes by government officials to continue limiting water usage rights to private land owners. One of the main reasons for limiting water usage rights to private landowners was set forth by the Fish and Wildlife Service in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management and was determined that the grazing of cattle was detrimental to wildlife.

1980 – Over 60% of the water usage rights once legal obtained by private landowners had been revoked.

1980 - Refuge personnel began diverting water bypassing meadow lands used for grazing and directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed away and destroyed.

1989 – Ranches that were once vast, thriving, highly valued lands of the Silvies plains now destroyed by the previous 8 years of flooding were purchased by the Federal Wildlife Service for pennies on the dollar.

1989 – After obtaining the once private lands water from flooded areas began receding as changes to the once diverted waterways was reverted back to pre-
1980 natural waterways.

1990 – Public records were uncovered of studies performed by the Federal Wildlife Service in 1975 showing the “no use” policies of the Federal Wildlife Service on the refuge were causing the wildlife to leave the refuge and move to private property. The study showed the private property adjacent to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge produced four times more ducks and geese than the refuge.  The study also showed the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When this was brought to the attention of the Federal Wildlife Service and refuge personnel by the Hammond family they became the subjects of a long train of abuses by the Federal Wildlife Service and Bureau of Land Management.

I’m kinda tired of typing now, but feel free to check any or all of this on your own and make your own determinations as to the cause of why this is now taking place. Here’s a hint; it has nothing to do with Clive Bundy being a racist.
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by Mike in O on Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:53 pm
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The high water years that you brought into the conversation has nothing to do with terrorists from Nevada invading a major economic plus for Harney county (with all the news reporting staying in the motels notwithstanding) . The Silvies flooding zone is very important to the wildlife (bird migration) and is shared cooperatively between private landowners and Oregon Dept of Fish and Wildlife and would be off limits if under private ownership to hunters and birdwatchers. Cattle grazing on the Refuge would destroy much of the ecosystem if in private hands and allowed to graze unchecked as has been the practice of people like the the Hammonds. The desert is an unforgiving environment that can not continue to support only for profit industrial ranches that think of Federal lands as their own.
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by bradmangas on Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:02 pm
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Flooding between 1980 - 1989 was not caused by "high water years" but to specific areas of managed lands due to water diversion by the Federal Bureau of Land Management and the Federal Wildlife Service. The diversions were discontinued after 1989. This information is in the public records. Your free to make your on conclusions but to say it had or has nothing to do with past issues would be naive.
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by Mike in O on Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:06 pm
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Since I live in Bend, I do have a history in the area...those were high water years, not a silly conspiracy to flood the ranchers out.
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by Mike in O on Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:31 pm
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Paypal is actively sponsoring this hate group
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-north ... _big-photo
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by bradmangas on Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:48 pm
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There was not ten consecutive years of natural flooding in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge area. This information is easily obtained.
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:54 pm
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Thank you Brad.  :)  

I am staying out of this now.
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