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by SantaFeJoe on Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:12 pm
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An example of how some people want to deal with wildlife in urban areas:

http://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilo ... story.html

Not much different from Florida and bears, I guess!

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
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by John Guastella on Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:36 am
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There's no greater animal lover than me, but even I'm concerned about the coyote problem here in Orange County. In Irvine, where I live, the coyotes are not just attacking dogs and cats, they are attacking people. Just a few weeks ago a man and his son were bitten while out walking.

I don't know why the coyotes have become so aggressive, but they appear to have completely lost their fear of humans. Because of that, I think the authorities will have to take action before a child is badly injured or killed.

John
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by SantaFeJoe on Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:39 pm
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With a population like that found in CA, it is inevitable that there will be conflicts between humans and coyotes, skunks, raccoons, etc.  Even in the ski area above Santa Fe, there have been aggressive coyotes and I have skunks and  raccoons that cause me problems in central SF.  Some raccoons ruined a pond liner in my back yard and the skunks make their presence known for a good part of the year. Squirrels dig up and eat my tulip bulbs. Occasionally, we have bears and cougars wandering into town. When people are outdoor oriented and like jogging, bicycling, dog walking and hiking, it makes encounters much more likely. Per capita encounters that are dangerous are certainly rare. Sure, some people will be injured or threatened, but we have taken over their home ranges and destroyed their habitat. Part of the problem comes about due to human carelessness in trash and pet food handling, as well as controlling pets. I do understand the viewpoint of Californians, but just as with stopping other problems like littering, it can't be done until there is a change in behavior. That is unlikely to happen! I know that the problem is not quite that simplistic, but I really believe the danger in relation to the population is just not that great, and coyotes are the smartest animal I know. They will never be eradicated.

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:54 am
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Joe's words………."coyotes are the smartest animal I know. They will never be eradicated".

He is right.  

Canis latrans is the smartest,  most adaptable animal in North America…..by far.

I hate to think that this California community would resort to poisoning (such as the USDA's APHIS would).  But even then, it is impossible to wipe out the coyote, regardless of the method.  Humans will fail in any attempt.  It cannot be done.

If put under the extreme stress of eradication, coyotes will increase their litter size!  Check out the link inside this Humane Society link.

BTW, I question any claim that coyotes have lost their fear of humans and are beginning to attack adult humans.  I do not believe it.   Coyotes have not lost their fear of humans.  This is likely to be another example of stubborn, aggressive humans, intent on excluding all nature around them….oh, except for a few of their little bird feeders that are meant more to look nice, but are often not kept filled with seed.  Many folks have bird feeders solely to impress the neighbors (ornaments) and they let them run out of food.  

I have got one such woman right next to me here in Maine. I am fed up with antiseptic people who cannot tolerate having a little wildlife poop around them or the sight of any animal at all other than an occasional songbird.  She claims that I would have moose in here soon if I could.   She's running up against the wrong person on this.     


Best Strategy for people concerned about coyotes in their community: Just learn to Live with coyotes….and maybe keep your cats in at night. 

Robert King


Last edited by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:25 am
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Once, when I was working as a Wildlife Biologist on a federal land tract, my Supervisor gave me that task of putting together a coyote management plan. It sounded daunting right at the outset.

I called back to my peers in my home state of Maine. I talked with Henry Hilton, the Maine coyote authority at the time. I began and completed a literature review of ALL research done in NA. Another Wildlife Biologist helped me with this.

After weeks of this, I submitted a short memo, stating that it would be impractical to attempt any coyote management program. Literally, my response to my Supervisor was not more than two sentences….and he accepted it and agreed.

You cannot manage coyotes. To go to the extreme of poisoning them, which is exactly what APHIS does, is simply ineffective cruelty.
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by pleverington on Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:05 am
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Not often, but I agree with you Joe about all you just said. When I lived in Tucson many years ago, for a while I spent time out in the booneys near the Mexican border on the at the time what was called the Papago Indian reservation. All desert, no civilization. At night I would build a fire, and close to every night, would be paid a visit by a coyote, and shortly after that a pack of coyotes. They never got closer to the fire and me than 20-30 feet say, but some nights would relax with me and just "hang".  It was great.  I never felt threatened. And I became very aware of their incredible intelligence. When I came back to Ohio a couple of years later,  I brought with me a shepard-collie/coyote mix pup. Named him Ziegfried-Ziggy for short. The thing was ..you could not treat him or talk to him as if he was just a dog. It's hard to describe, but one had to think about him as  another human. He could easily figure out what was going on despite whatever dog type commands were thrown at him. He was extremely popular with anyone who met him. The neighborhood kids loved to come by and ask if he could go with them and play for a while. (think spanky and our  gang). It was an uncanny and sublime experience that has shaped my attitude and feelings toward coyotes forever. Most only see them as something of a pest.

Ignorance....
 
 
Paul
 
 
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:31 am
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Very interesting Paul…no, fascinating.    

I wonder if I could get a pet coyote.  Is it legal?  From the perspective of safety, it would be the same as any other canine breed…..I am certain of it.   Then again, I am not in the want for a large dog.  

A lone coyote, as a pet, would conduct itself with more discipline than some dogs behave….not all now :)  And it sure would be intelligent.

I am one who believes that a dog always mirrors its owner's personality.  When you consider a dog, consider its owner.  

Regarding their hatred for coyotes, people are small-minded.
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by Mike in O on Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:13 am
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Having been around coyotes, 1 pet (not mine), mixes and wild, they don't normally make good pets (like most wild animals). They tend to slink around in deference to you and do not have social instincts familiar in wolf breeds. For the most part they are solitary except during breeding season and the rearing of pups.
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by pleverington on Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:23 am
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Seems when I "reply with quote" my reply does not show up and I can't hit the back button to retrieve what I wrote. Robert I'll write it up later what I just wrote up that got lost about having one as a pet..
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:33 am
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You may be right on that one.  I did not consider that and since I have not had one I would not know.  

Then again, no telling what your friend's personality was like.  

A lot of the good old boys are also nasty old boys…..and you know it as well as I do.

So maybe no wild canid would be happy around humans.   Human behavior is not unpredictable.

Edit:  Yes, you made good points Mike.  My comments on having a coyote as a pet are my speculation only. :)


Last edited by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:20 am
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Paul, cannot help you there. Lot's of times I opt for simply typing my comment without the quotes, believing that the reader will recognize my comment as a response to someone's previous comment that I chose not to quote. It saves space.

So, when you get to it, maybe just go ahead and comment :)
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by SantaFeJoe on Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:50 am
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Re: Reply with Quote
Are you trying to do that from an iPad. It doesn't work on this site. Neither does sending a PM.

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
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by SantaFeJoe on Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:02 am
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Why would anyone want to make a free-running wild animal a pet? That's not much different from keeping wild things taken from the wild in zoos. Coyotes are far too intelligent to thrive in the confines of a yard or house. They are very much unlike dogs. Coyotes are constantly on the move and create their own entertainment. You could never make one do simplistic things like chase a ball over and over again and be happy. They are best left in nature out of respect for their wildness and cleverness. If they were to be "tamed", they would lose the thing that makes a coyote a coyote!!!

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:06 am
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All Most are good points Joe.  Very well said.  Not a good idea to have one as a pet.  
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by pleverington on Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:31 am
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Some coyote facts..

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animal ... ut-coyotes

I did not know they mate for life and are monogamous.
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:13 pm
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Glen Manuel was a former Commissioner of Maine's Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife.  

The following is an excerpt from the link below.  

……...Glenn Manuel, the father of eastern-coyote control. For helping get the state's Democratic governor elected, Manuel, a former state senator, had been appointed commissioner of the Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife. He told me that coyotes threatened to eliminate Maine's deer herd and scoffed at his biologists who claimed otherwise. "[They] still believe in the balance of nature," he declared. "They're textbook boys."

This is the man MDIFW Wildlife Biologists were forced to work under in those years.   

http://www.scottchurchdirect.com/ted-wi ... on-coyotes

Another related link:

Maine Sportsman Alliance is the most powerful outdoorsman lobby in Maine.  Northwoods Journal is a column that runs in the Maine Sportsman Alliance paper.

http://www.sportingjournal.com/main73.shtml

Coyote snares strangle the animal as it pulls to get its head free.  The coyote dies of suffocation.  

>  there is absolutely no evidence that coyote snares controlled the coyote populations.

>  even if snares did control the coyote population…...it is conclusive that the eastern coyote has not decimated the white-tailed deer in maine….and will never decimate the deer herd.  In other words, there was no justification for the use of snares in the first place.

Excerpt from Maine's 2015 Trapping Laws:

[font=Georgia, serif]Snares[/font]
[font=Georgia, serif]Snares may be used only in the following situations:[/font]
  • snares may be used to trap for beaver, but they must be set completely underwater,
  • foot snares (cable traps) may be used only to trap for bear. See Bear Hunting for more information on bear trapping.
end of excerpt

Yet, these "sportsmen" are always looking for an opening to be allowed to use any means to kill coyotes….regardless of how cruel the technique may be.  

They have it LOCKED into their heads that the coyote is taking their deer from them.   And you know….there is absolutely nothing that can be done to change their minds.

This is the mindset that I have to live with in any wildlife-related news in Maine.  And MDIFW is DRIVEN by the Maine Sportsman Alliance lobby.  

In America, the wildlife in any State "belongs" to the residents of that State.  Accordingly, by law, hunters/trappers should have no more input as to the course that a State wildlife agency takes….than any other resident of that State.   But the hunters/trappers DO have more influence over the State agencies, simply because there is/are no non-hunting/trapping lobby that is organized to express its desires.  

 

 
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by Mike in O on Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:37 am
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Robert, for the public to have standing when speaking to a State agency, they must show a stake in the wildlife.  That stake that hunters have is licences and gun and ammo tax which the funds the State agencies.  The courts are the only public recourse when dealing with these agencies since their mandates usually incorporates feel good language (protection) and this wording can be used to counteract the normal way an agency acts in regards to their wildlife.


Last edited by Mike in O on Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:57 pm
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"The courts are the only public recourse when dealing with these agencies since their mandates usually incorporates feel good language (protection) and this wording can be used to counteract the normal way an agency acts in regards to their wildlife. "

What do you mean by this?
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by Mike in O on Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:43 pm
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Usually a Fish &Wildlife agency is responsible for non-game species and uses wording that they will protect animals for future generations etc.....That is is how you attack the problem of them being only an agency responsible the "harvest" of game species.
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by Blck-shouldered Kite on Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:48 pm
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Oh, now I understand. And thank you. Yes, what you have said is undoubtedly true.
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