« Previous topic | Next topic »  
Topic Locked  
 First unread post  | 69 posts | 
by SantaFeJoe on Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:06 am
User avatar
SantaFeJoe
Forum Contributor
Posts: 8622
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere Out In The Wilds
More news on plastics in the food we eat:

http://news.yahoo.com/one-four-chance-f ... 20411.html

and also related:

http://www.takepart.com/article/2015/09 ... microbeads

http://www.takepart.com/photos/5-shocki ... stic-trash

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
Topic Locked  

by Blck-shouldered Kite on Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:57 am
Blck-shouldered Kite
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2669
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Maine
Surprise, surprise.

And I thought that plastics were not digestible.

I hope people at the top, the people who are collecting the big money in government…the people who are getting paid money to be good stewards of our biosphere……... start getting sick from this sh_t.

I am terribly saddened for the nature that I have so loved my entire life.

Robert King
Topic Locked  

by Mike in O on Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:25 am
Mike in O
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2673
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Instead of complaining...get out and organize a date in your state  to pick up litter (a lot of it is plastics)
http://solveoregon.org/


Last edited by Mike in O on Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Locked  

by SantaFeJoe on Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:44 am
User avatar
SantaFeJoe
Forum Contributor
Posts: 8622
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere Out In The Wilds
Mike in O wrote:Instead of complaining...get out and organize a date in your state in your state to pick up litter (a lot of it is plastics)
http://solveoregon.org/
If you refer to my second link in my last post, you will see that the type of plastic mentioned is not recoverable, yet it is probably one of the most harmful because it is already easily ingestible. This was also referenced by Roberta earlier in this thread, as was this about clothing made from recycled plastics:

http://news.discovery.com/earth/global- ... 111024.htm

I was made aware of a huge problem recently when I went to remove an old blue tarp from something. The plastic had deteriorated in the sun and was shedding so many tiny bits of plastic everywhere. These pieces can never fully be recovered or disposed of in a non-harmful way and will certainly do damage as they go about their way down the water stream.

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
Topic Locked  

by Mike in O on Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:10 am
Mike in O
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2673
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
I hope none of you guys are using plastic cameras (like the 750) or lenses (like my just arrived T 150/600); of course I am being facetious, plastic is always with us and a major push should be made to make as much of it as possible to be biodegradable. Until that happens, the oceans will keep getting more and more polluted. Land fills will continue filling up and get more expensive (Hawaii sends it garbage all the way to Oregon, no place on the island to put it). Put pressure on your legislature for a disposal tax to help the plastic makers see it is better to make things biodegradable.
Topic Locked  

by SantaFeJoe on Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:09 pm
User avatar
SantaFeJoe
Forum Contributor
Posts: 8622
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere Out In The Wilds
Even biodegradable plastics carry their own set of problems associated with materials and production. Corn is one of the primary materials used in their production. More corn, more GMOs and less food available to the world. Reusable containers and utensils may help some, but everything has to be weighed carefully.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodegradable_plastic

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
Topic Locked  

by Mike in O on Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:20 pm
Mike in O
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2673
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
I skimmed your article Joe and didn't see much in the way of UV breakdown which for loose plastics in the wild (not in landfills) seems to be a good alternative.
Topic Locked  

by neverspook on Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:41 pm
neverspook
Forum Contributor
Posts: 1228
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Plastic does NOT biodegrade into harmless elements. It does photodegrade in UV light into smaller and smaller bits, but those are STILL plastic. The chemical bonds that are used in making plastic are virtually indestructible. The breakdown in UV light (and in many so-called biodegradable plastics) occurs in selected areas where chemical bonds are weaker between the small particles of plastic (such as beads) that are used in manufacturing it. But these tiny bits, which are still plastic, are still deadly. They attract and concentrate DDT, PCBs and other toxins. They remain in the food chain.

All the plastic that has even been manufactured in still here on earth (though some of it is now broken down into tiny unrecoverable bits). ALL OF IT IS STILL HERE ON EARTH.

Even plastics made from plant materials may have very strong chemical bonds and so in many/some cases may not be that much of an improvement over oil-based plastic in terms of breakdown. It depends on how they were manufactured.

Plastics also do not recycle into similar quality materials. Unlike glass or metal, for example, the small amount of plastic that does get recycled is always downcycled into lower quality plastic. Still better than having it go to the landfill or into the open environment.

But the best solution is to NOT USE PLASTIC, especially single use plastic like grocery bags and water bottles and takeout containers and drinking straws etc etc that are easily done without.

But be wary of all the greenwash around biodegradable plastic and recycling and all that. There is so much misunderstanding about that.

Roberta Olenick
www.neverspook.com
Topic Locked  

by SantaFeJoe on Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:41 am
User avatar
SantaFeJoe
Forum Contributor
Posts: 8622
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere Out In The Wilds
The courts are not helping solve the problem:

http://www.takepart.com/article/2015/09 ... rofoam-ban

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
Topic Locked  

by pleverington on Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:59 pm
pleverington
Forum Contributor
Posts: 5355
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
The problem is people not disposing the plastics properly with nature in mind, not the plastic material itself, it seems to me...
 



Bio degradable plastic is broken down into constituents by bacteriological action, and even some bacteria are adapting to do so also, so the claim that all plastics never leave the environment is not altogether true.

"Under proper conditions, some biodegradable plastics can degrade to the point where microorganisms can completely metabolise them to carbon dioxide (and water). For example, starch-based bioplastics produced from sustainable farming methods could be almost carbon neutral."
 
Paul
 
 
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
Topic Locked  

by SantaFeJoe on Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:15 pm
User avatar
SantaFeJoe
Forum Contributor
Posts: 8622
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere Out In The Wilds
Regarding biodegradable plastics, read my reply about 4 or 5 posts up, especially about corn. Styrofoam is not biodegradable and that is what my last post is in regards to.

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
Topic Locked  

by pleverington on Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:31 pm
pleverington
Forum Contributor
Posts: 5355
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
I did Joe...and thanks for your sharing of what you yourself are discovering....truly it's beneficial to all who are willing to listen. Joe, if you recall from some of my previous posts, corn, is used primarily to feed livestock to feed the insatiable appetite of humans for animal products, most specifically meat. Our entire landscape is mostly getting used up for the satisfaction of meat eating humans. It's not plastics that are affecting corn usage but meat eaters.
 
I did major in chemistry in college. I didn't finish, but I know a bit more than most about how atoms and molecules work. There are plastic molecules that can be broken down, and there  are molecules that are tough because of their combined stability that don't. One needs to look at both when judging "plastics".  The circular molecule based plastics do not breakdown where as the chained ones do. Chemistry is a physical thing....it's about the shape of things on the molecular level. A closed loop for example is locked tight with double even triple bonds that do not separate unless to elevated extremes of energy input. Chains are easily broken apart. Nylon is such a molecule for example and can be broken down by bacteria.
 
I'm not advocating folks ignore the good advice here but there is always more to the story than biased opinions seem to present.
 
Plastics have brought us out of the iron age and made it possible for a endless plethora of benefits from heart valves to less energy and material consumptive automobiles. Packaging has literally saved millions from disease and infections. Plastics are wonderful. People are not...at least the unconscious ones. Just like oil, steel, coal, gas, chemicals of every type have made our lives better, using them without a guiding belief system that incorporates nature is sure to doom that nature... this is the real problem in my deductive analysis.......
 
So why so much garbage just willy nilly thrown about till it collects in the middle of the ocean currents? This is the real question and problem.
 
Your link:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodegradable_plastic
is one people should read because in it it describes what I am saying. There are two types of plastic...one is never going to be broken down and the other is via bacteria. If your worried about corn, then stop eating meat and encourage others to do the same.
 
.
 
 Paul
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
Topic Locked  

by SantaFeJoe on Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:32 pm
User avatar
SantaFeJoe
Forum Contributor
Posts: 8622
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere Out In The Wilds
This turtle is an ambassador for awareness of plastic pollution:

http://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/poor ... y/?ref=yfp

There are a couple of interesting links at the bottom of the article, but I didn't read them.

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
Topic Locked  

by SantaFeJoe on Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:44 pm
User avatar
SantaFeJoe
Forum Contributor
Posts: 8622
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere Out In The Wilds
Morocco's effort to battle climate change and pollution at the same time:

http://news.yahoo.com/morocco-trash-pic ... 03884.html

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
Topic Locked  

by neverspook on Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:02 am
neverspook
Forum Contributor
Posts: 1228
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Washing your clothes gets them clean, but it may also be adding to the plastic pollution problem!!!

Not all plastic pollution is easily visible. Tons (literally) of the plastic in the ocean (and elsewhere in the evironment is very tiny, less than 5 mm. As mentioned elsewhere on this thread, a lot of household cosmetic and cleaners like some toothpastes, facial scrubs, scrub cleansers etc use tiny plastic beads as abrasives. These get washed straight down the drain and are far too small to be collected at water treatment plants. So these plastic beads go straight into the ocean (or lakes/rivers if you live inland) where they get eaten by plankton which get eaten fish and shellfish which get eaten by birds and mammals – including humans.

So if you are eating fish/shellfish, you are not only eating plastic, but also the DDT, PCBs and other persistent health damaging toxins that concentrate on plastic debris. Plastic is like a sponge for these evil chemicals – as well as containing some of its own like hormone-disrupting BPA and phthalates.

But another source of microplastic pollution I recently learned about is LAUNDRY!!!

If you’re like me, you probably feel pretty green wearing all that fleece clothing made from recycled pop bottles. BUT whenever you wash those clothes, thousands of tiny plastic fibres go down the drain and into the ocean (or lakes/rivers). Washing machines do not have filters to collect these and they are far too fine to be trapped by water treatment facilities. So they just get released down the drain and out into the environment. And here, once again, they get eaten by plankton and so on up the food chain, all covered in DDT, PCBs etc that they have concentrated. All the way up to you!

Here is some information on this laundry source of plastic. http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-16709045  You will read that 1900 fibres are released per garment every single time you wash it!!

I have a closet full of fleece and have been feeling pretty guilty about washing it for some time now.

BUT a few days ago, I found out that a Canadian company has developed a filter you can attach to the hoses from your washing machine that will trap many/most of these fibres. This filter was originally developed to prevent lint from damaging septic systems and it works great for that. It also traps at least a good number of the plastic fibres from synthetic plastic clothing made from polypropylene, nylon and other plastics.

Right now research is being conducted to determine just how efficient these filters are at removing the plastic fibres with the view to modifying the filter if need be. But that potential modification is a year and a half away. So I have ordered my filter because even if it only keeps some fibres out of the water, that is way better than none.

You can learn about and buy the filter here http://www.environmentalenhancements.co ... order.html  It is $140 Cdn (and a little extra if you need a wall mount).

And you can also help out in the research into how efficient the filter is by collecting the lint and sending it to the researchers. If that interests you, contact Upgyres in Vancouver and let them know you want to help out.  Their site also has more info on the plastic pollution issue. http://upgyres.org/prevent/  (For contact info, scroll down to the bottom of this link.)

Because I am so keen to stop plastic pollution, if you find you cannot really afford the cost of this filter, contact me and I will see what I can do to help out. Maybe if enough of us want these filters we can negotiate a bulk rate?

Note that this product is made in Canada. Check the specs online or contact  http://www.environmentalenhancements.co ... order.html to make sure this will fit washing machines elsewhere.

Roberta Olenick
www.neverspook.com
Topic Locked  

by SantaFeJoe on Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:18 am
User avatar
SantaFeJoe
Forum Contributor
Posts: 8622
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere Out In The Wilds
Great news! Micro beads are now banned:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/30/health/ob ... index.html

http://www.newsweek.com/united-states-j ... ace-410617

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
Topic Locked  

by SantaFeJoe on Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:21 pm
User avatar
SantaFeJoe
Forum Contributor
Posts: 8622
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere Out In The Wilds
More on the effects of plastics:

http://www.onegreenplanet.org/environme ... opulation/

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
Topic Locked  

by neverspook on Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:52 pm
neverspook
Forum Contributor
Posts: 1228
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
By 2050, there will be more plastic than fish (by weight) in the ocean.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... are_btn_fb

I don't want to live long enough to see that.

Roberta Olenick
www.neverspook.com
Topic Locked  

by E.J. Peiker on Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:59 am
User avatar
E.J. Peiker
Senior Technical Editor
Posts: 86761
Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Location: Arizona
Member #:00002
I wish somebody with deep philanthropic pockets would put their mind to this and orchestrate a clean-up. Somebody like Elon Musk or Bill Gates could easily finance the development and building of the vessels needed and the clean-up itself but this problem just doesn't garner enough media attention to bring it into there sphere of recognition. Heck there is probably money to be made from the cleanup by somebody more innovative on figuring out how to make money off of garbage than I am.

I am imagining a small fleet of vessels that basically have an open jaw that ingests the stuff and compacts it down and runs lawn mower patterns until it's cleaned up. Of course we still need to dispose of that but I think with a combination of recycling and responsible burial of the stuff, this could be accomplished. Hey, maybe we could convert some oil tankers to this type of ship if we can ever remove our addiction to fossil fuels...
Topic Locked  

by Mike in O on Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:59 am
Mike in O
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2673
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
The Pacific is huge with a lot of countries bordering it (many 3rd world) and ships no matter how big are just tiny. The only cure is to stop it from entering the ocean. A lot of money is too be made off of garbage disposal (Hawaii sends its garbage to Oregon) but the problem only gets addressed when it disrupts someone's beach walk. Japan, unsolicited, sent money for Oregon beach cleanup from the Tsunami event knowing that is what people care about.
Topic Locked  

Display posts from previous:  Sort by:  
69 posts | 
  

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group