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by CactusD on Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:35 am
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Hello everyone, long time no see: good to see the site still thriving (I moved away from digital nature photography in 2016, having found a solid home in large format film landscape work, though do still try to shoot digital macro).

I have a photoshop question which is causing me a bit of grief with v large files that scanning 10x8 colour film on an Epson V850 creates
.
Using Catalina on a new iMac owned since mid summer last year, and the latest version of CC 2021, I experience pretty much regular system failure/restarts with these large files (basic scan approaching 1gb before layers etc.: esp. needed for colour neg processing).  The system restarts happen with: extensive use of spot healing brush or clone brush (i.e. when spotting film), and/or when saving .psb files - which, it seems, also take a very long time to save (longer e.g. than on my MPB, which is still running High Sierra perfectly happily).

Since I have followed, over time, a number of different recommendations I've seen on the Adobe forums, and given that my 2018 MPB 15" with 16GB ram seems to be able to cope pretty well with these files; 
given that Photoshop never hangs in isolation but crashes the entire system without warning; 
and given that I home-installed extra RAM myself (from original 4+4=8GB to 4+4+16+16=40GB): 

I'd like an assessment of whether I have a faulty RAM module that is to blame.  


I had assumed that if Photoshop failed it wouldn't necessarily crash the entire system, though that might not of course be correct.

Any thoughts or suggestions welcome.  Perhaps there is something vv obvious that I'm overlooking.  Since I don't scan 10x8 colour all that regularly it's not something I've had time or need to fix but it's very irritating and I'd like a solution.

All best, and many thanks in advance for any suggestions,
David
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by dbolt on Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:21 am
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David,

The behavior sounds a bit like I've been fighting on a Win10 and PS 2021 - PC reboots when loading or saving large files. Also reboots when clicking Select/Subject. No solution yet, but PS 2019 does not have these problems.

doug
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by E.J. Peiker on Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:13 pm
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Have you run Apple's Mac diagnostic tools yet?
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202731
 

by CactusD on Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:35 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
Have you run Apple's Mac diagnostic tools yet?
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202731


Thanks: no!  Next thing to try.  I guess this will answer definitively if it is a Mac hardware issue (assuming this is foolproof)?
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by CactusD on Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:42 pm
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So: apparently no fault found (ADP000 reference code)...
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by E.J. Peiker on Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:46 am
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Next thing to try is to turn off graphics processor help in PS preferences.  If that cures it then it's likely an issue between Adobe and your graphics card.  Make sure you exit PS and relaunch it after turning that off.  Note that this isn't a great solution because it will slow PS down, but at least it will help narrow down the problem.
 

by CactusD on Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:29 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
Next thing to try is to turn off graphics processor help in PS preferences.  If that cures it then it's likely an issue between Adobe and your graphics card.  Make sure you exit PS and relaunch it after turning that off.  Note that this isn't a great solution because it will slow PS down, but at least it will help narrow down the problem.


Many thanks: will give it a go and get back.
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by nchild on Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:02 am
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I had a similar sounding problem with my late 2015 iMac with aftermarket RAM from OWC. It would suddenly shut down and restart multiple times per day when using brushes in Photoshop, Capture One, and when skimming across a Final Cut Pro timeline (among other things). All my system tests and RAM tests showed that everything was OK, but the issue went away when I put my original Apple memory modules back in so I figured it was the RAM, despite the tests saying the modules were all fine. OWC sent me new RAM memory modules, and I haven't had the issue since. You could try taking the aftermarket memory out and see if the problem persists.
 

by CactusD on Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:40 pm
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nchild wrote:
I had a similar sounding problem with my late 2015 iMac with aftermarket RAM from OWC. It would suddenly shut down and restart multiple times per day when using brushes in Photoshop, Capture One, and when skimming across a Final Cut Pro timeline (among other things). All my system tests and RAM tests showed that everything was OK, but the issue went away when I put my original Apple memory modules back in so I figured it was the RAM, despite the tests saying the modules were all fine. OWC sent me new RAM memory modules, and I haven't had the issue since. You could try taking the aftermarket memory out and see if the problem persists.


Many thanks for this: haven't been able to try again since I last wrote (life getting in the way!).  
The fact that the system itself reboots rather than just hanging photoshop made me think of a hardware fault, even after the system test.  The new RAM upgrades were reputable (as also yours from OWC).  
I'll get to EJ's suggestion first, and then see about the RAM.
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by E.J. Peiker on Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:10 pm
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Too bad the Mac doesn't allow super deep system level memory tests like the PC platform does. A deep scan with memtest run prior to the OS even loading would let you know in a few hours if it's RAM or not without a shadow of a doubt. I know of no way to do that deep level memory scan and analysis on the Mac platform.
 

by CactusD on Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:07 am
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CactusD wrote:
nchild wrote:
I had a similar sounding problem with my late 2015 iMac with aftermarket RAM from OWC. It would suddenly shut down and restart multiple times per day when using brushes in Photoshop, Capture One, and when skimming across a Final Cut Pro timeline (among other things). All my system tests and RAM tests showed that everything was OK, but the issue went away when I put my original Apple memory modules back in so I figured it was the RAM, despite the tests saying the modules were all fine. OWC sent me new RAM memory modules, and I haven't had the issue since. You could try taking the aftermarket memory out and see if the problem persists.


Many thanks for this: haven't been able to try again since I last wrote (life getting in the way!).  
The fact that the system itself reboots rather than just hanging photoshop made me think of a hardware fault, even after the system test.  The new RAM upgrades were reputable (as also yours from OWC).  
I'll get to EJ's suggestion first, and then see about the RAM.



Another quick update: had a look at my physical ram installation, and noticed that I'd slotted the new sticks of RAM into alternate slots since the 2x4GB Apple RAM were in alternate slots. I've now moved the RAM so that both sets of RAM are in 2 pairs of adjacent slots (this appears to be the Apple recommendation which I seem not to have originally followed).
I have just re-edited my most troublesome (i.e. kernel-panic-inducing) file - a rather dusty and unevenly processed sheet of 10x8 colour neg scanned on my Epson at 1600dpi, so lots of spotting etc. in addition to curves work - and the computer didn't reboot once.  Occasional usual rainbow processing wheels but other than no apparent issues at all.
Hopefully this is a fix.  Fingers crossed.  Many thanks for the tips and suggestions.

PS I figure that the difference in file-saving time, where my MPB flash drive saves .psb files much faster than the iMac 1TB Fusion drive, is simply that flash drives are much faster. 
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by E.J. Peiker on Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:50 am
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Sounds like a slight timing issue between the Apple supplied RAM and the OWC RAM which you have eliminated by reconfiguring the RAM modules. Hopefully it won't pop up again.
 

by CactusD on Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:09 am
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
Sounds like a slight timing issue between the Apple supplied RAM and the OWC RAM which you have eliminated by reconfiguring the RAM modules.  Hopefully it won't pop up again.




I won't pretend to understand what that means, but yes!  Many thanks for the help.
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by E.J. Peiker on Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:47 pm
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CactusD wrote:
E.J. Peiker wrote:
Sounds like a slight timing issue between the Apple supplied RAM and the OWC RAM which you have eliminated by reconfiguring the RAM modules.  Hopefully it won't pop up again.




I won't pretend to understand what that means, but yes!  Many thanks for the help.

In order to speed up operation, data doesn't go to RAM modules sequentially, it gets spread across 4 of them in parallel so that you can read and write in multiple lanes simultaneously. If one of the lanes presents data too soon or too late, you have a timing issue.  Imagine a giant moving banner being pushed down on a four lane highway by 4 trucks and one of the trucks backfires and loses power for just a second, suddenly part of the banner doesn't arrive at the same place as the other three quarters and the banner tears...

For this reason you want matched memory modules in the lanes so by moving identical memory modules to one of the 4 lane highways and the other matched set to the other 4 lane highway, you reduce the risk of this happening.

it's a crude analogy but hopefully this helps make a little bit of sense of it all.
 

by bobsmith on Mon May 03, 2021 7:47 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
Too bad the Mac doesn't allow super deep system level memory tests like the PC platform does.  A deep scan with memtest run prior to the OS even loading would let you know in a few hours if it's RAM or not without a shadow of a doubt.  I know of no way to do that deep level memory scan and analysis on the Mac platform.




Only with Genius Bar diagnostic tools…
 

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