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by Stephen Feingold on Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:01 pm
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When I have asked advanced amateur or pro photographers why they have not moved to mirrorless cameras, the first response usually  is the quality of the EVF.

What specifications are needed for an EVF to reach the quality of a pro grade optical viewfinder?
 

by DChan on Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:56 am
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Stephen Feingold wrote:When I have asked advanced amateur or pro photographers why they have not moved to mirrorless cameras, the first response usually  is the quality of the EVF.

What specifications are needed for an EVF to reach the quality of a pro grade optical viewfinder?

I don't know much about the specs but, when was the last time you asked that question? Likely ten years or so ago? Things have improved a lot since. Back then even some here disliked EVF. Now they're rushing to buy a Sony. Go to a camera store, check out any latest mirrorless camera and see for yourself. I'd like to think that my D3s and D850 have pro-grade optical viewfinder in them. I don't know if my mirrorless Olympus EM 1 Mk II is pro grade or not but it's EVE works for me just fine. So if you're wondering when we will see "pro-grade" EVF? I'd say:"it's been here...for a while now."

Haven't you heard that Associated Press is switching all its cameras used by its photographers to Sony's mirrorless (probably "subsidized" by Sony I guess :-))??
 

by E.J. Peiker on Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:31 am
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You often find that people form their opinion early in a technology and the write that technology off and then spend years showing their ignorance based on an opinion they formed years ago. Look at autofocus, 15 years after it’s introduction in the mid to late 80’s, people were still putting it down based on an impression they formed 15 years earlier. A similar thing happened with digital. As late as 2015 I still heard people saying that once it matches the resolution of film they’d consider it. Of course by then it had far exceeded the resolution of film and the dynamic range exceeded it all the way back in 2008. I think we are getting into this space with EVFs. This is especially true if you are doing low light photography where you can’t see anything on an OVF while the EVF allows you to see what you are photographing. Additionally being able to see things like histograms, blinkies, focus peaking, zebras, etc BEFORE you take the shot is worth a lot. Resolution is no longer an issue either, especially on something like the a7s III which takes EVF technology to a new level. Where OVF still has the advantage is that there is zero lag but even that has gotten to the point on the latest EVFs where it is no longer an issue.
 

by Stephen Feingold on Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:42 pm
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Thanks to DChan and EJ for your input.

The reason I had posed my question to photographers who have not switched to mirrorless is because I have looked at mirrorless cameras and felt something was still missing, despite the continued advances. I see a difference in delineation of tones and small structure, which I attribute to a small screen size and resolution. And I understand how what I see could be considered minor.
While good optical finder magnifications are 0.9x or higher, even high end EVFs may be only slightly upward of 0.7x. I am not aware of exceptions. High resolution EVFs (today ~5MP) are in a few cameras, or ones recently released. I would be interested in seeing the Sony a7s III for its ~9MP EVF, but this is not a camera for me.
I recall during the digital transformation it was said that digital sensors would have to reach 6MP to match film resolution. I was hoping someone would have a figure for an EVF to match an OVF. Perhaps between 4K and 8K?
I know photographers love their mirrorless cameras for their great advantages and understand that in photography as in life we give up some advantage to gain another, especially during times of technological change. However, with the high cost of switching, I must weigh how much current mirrorless tech might improve my images, and the time for the current advances to be more universal.
Wishing I live long enough.
 

by DChan on Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:41 pm
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Stephen Feingold wrote:Thanks to DChan and EJ for your input.

The reason I had posed my question to photographers who have not switched to mirrorless is because I have looked at mirrorless cameras and felt something was still missing, despite the continued advances. I see a difference in delineation of tones and small structure, which I attribute to a small screen size and resolution. And I understand how what I see could be considered minor.  
 While good optical finder magnifications are 0.9x or higher, even high end EVFs may be only slightly upward of 0.7x.  I am not aware of exceptions. High resolution EVFs (today ~5MP) are in a few cameras, or ones recently released. I would be interested in seeing the Sony a7s III for its ~9MP EVF, but this is not a camera for me.
I recall during the digital transformation it was said that digital sensors would have to reach 6MP to match film resolution. I was hoping someone would have a figure for an EVF to match an OVF. Perhaps between 4K and 8K?
I know photographers love their mirrorless cameras for their great advantages and understand that in photography as in life we give up some advantage to gain another, especially during times of technological change. However, with the high cost of switching, I must weigh how much current mirrorless tech might improve my images, and the time for the current advances to be more universal.
Wishing I live long enough.
Have you used live view on your dslr?? It has a zoom feature which allows you to get a closer look of the subject you're photographing, letting you get a better focus if needed. EVF has that, too. In fact, when you're using the live view, you are using a EVF.

I think how much details you can see with a optical viewfinder has something to do with your eyesight. I've used optical viewfinders of older film cameras to something like that in the D850 today. I don't see any noticeable difference if any between them in terms of the details of the target I'm photographing.

I don't see how a mirror or its absence impacts the quality of my images.

FYI, Here's a couple of pro photogs who use mirrorless:

Arthur Morris:  http://www.birdsasart-blog.com/

Andy Rouse: https://www.andyrouse.co.uk/index.php
 

by Bill Chambers on Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:46 pm
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I have often wondered the same thing, but my concern is not with the quality during mid-day, but as darkness is falling. Using Liveview on my D810 is much harder, sometimes even impossible, when the woods are getting dark but using my viewfinder is still perfectly fine.

I honestly don't know if comparing Liveview to an EVF is comparable at all since I've never used an EVF before, but I would appreciate any opinions on the usability of EVF when darkness is approaching.
Please visit my web site, simply nature - Photographic Art by Bill Chambers
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by Mark L on Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:00 pm
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The Sony a7r IV viewfinder is 5.76 MP with a magnification of 0.78.  The new Sony a7s III viewfinder is 9.4 mP with a magnification of 0.9.  I use currently an a7r IV and used an a7 II before that.  Even the a7 II viewfinder was workable for me and the a7r IV is fantastic.  People can be/are bothered/complain about lag/blackouts when shooting bursts; I don't shoot that way so it has never been an issue for me.  
 

by Wildflower-nut on Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:36 am
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my biggest problem with the canon RP has been viewfinder blackout when trying to photograph birds hand holding. It is very distracting and cause me to loose track.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:21 pm
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Bill Chambers wrote:I have often wondered the same thing, but my concern is not with the quality during mid-day, but as darkness is falling.  Using Liveview on my D810 is much harder, sometimes even impossible, when the woods are getting dark but using my viewfinder is still perfectly fine.

I honestly don't know if comparing Liveview to an EVF is comparable at all since I've never used an EVF before, but I would appreciate any opinions on the usability of EVF when darkness is approaching.
Realize the D810 is nearly 10 year old technology in regards to Liveview and LCDs.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:23 pm
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Wildflower-nut wrote:my biggest problem with the canon RP has been viewfinder blackout when trying to photograph birds hand holding.  It is very distracting and cause me to loose track.
It is not a camera designed for that kind of use.  A mirrorless camera designed for it doesn't have this problem and a camera designed for fast action photography like the a9 models have zero blackout - it's essentially like video with just a sound when you take the shot (which you can turn off)
 

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