fbpixel

Moderators: Greg Downing, E.J. Peiker

All times are UTC - 5 hours

  
« Previous topic | Next topic »  
Reply to topic  
 First unread post  | 10 posts | 
by WJaekel on Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:26 pm
User avatar
WJaekel
Forum Contributor
Posts: 589
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Location: Germany
Just got a notification that Topazlabs changes their policy to charge for product upgrades of DeNoise AI, Sharpen AI, Gigapixel AI, and Mask AI  - valid for one year after the purchase  ;-) This comes into effect in August 2020.

https://community.topazlabs.com/t/ongoing-product-value-and-paid-upgrades/13299


Wolfgang
 

by Andy Bell on Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:09 pm
Andy Bell
Forum Contributor
Posts: 1241
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Location: Reigate, UK
In a sense they’ve been doing that for a while. They’ve repackaged and renamed (and enhanced) tools like AI Clear and sold it as DeNoise AI. Etc.

It’s upsetting a lot of users on their forums, not surprisingly. Who wants to pay when it used to be free and when the expectation, based on Topaz’s policy, was free upgrades for life?
Andy Bell
Reigate, Surrey, UK
Andy Bell Photography
 

by Hoppy on Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:09 pm
User avatar
Hoppy
Forum Contributor
Posts: 264
Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
I've had Topaz products for 10 years, some were good and others not so.  Their Sharpen AI saved a very special image of mine that had a bit of motion blur and for that it paid for itself in one go.  Generally though their AI stuff has been buggy, obviously needing to come to market to keep the money flowing in.  At this stage though I only really use Studio 1 version on a regular basis which is no longer supported, not happy with Studio 2.

With so much software having regular and not cheap upgrades, looking at you Capture One, its almost like a subscription model.  Changing operating systems also can force an upgrade despite the current version being sufficient.  For me the time has come to seriously assess which products are must have, those that are nice to have at a given price point and those that I will leave behind.

Although I understand their reasoning to ensure sustainability I believe a better (cheaper) upgrade cost for existing customers would show a greater level of appreciation.  As most of us have more than one application it is a regular US$99 (AUD$150) per year. Here in Australia numerous companies have the tendency to offer better deals to entice new customers and making them unavailable to those existing and loyal.
A SLR always has the wrong lens attached

http://www.romarimages.com
http://500px.com/ROMARimages
 

by E.J. Peiker on Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:46 pm
User avatar
E.J. Peiker
Senior Technical Editor
Posts: 84367
Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Location: Arizona
Member #:00002
Hoppy, I don't think Topaz (or Capture One as you've called out) perpetual license model with paid upgrades is anything at all like an Adobe subscription product. If you chose not to upgrade you lose absolutely nothing - you can keep using those products in perpetuity. With Adobe, on the other hand, literally the second you stop your subscription, the apps no longer work at all. There is a big difference between paid upgrades which are optional and you can keep using your software and paying month to month and the second you don't you have nothing. Both models have their merits and demerits but they are nothing alike.
 

by WJaekel on Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:36 pm
User avatar
WJaekel
Forum Contributor
Posts: 589
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Location: Germany
I think it's problematic that they advertised their products as having free upgrades and now pull that back. I can see that they want to make money but it would be much fairer, at least, if they continue offering free upgrades for existing customers and change their policy for new buyers. But I don't think that they will change their mind in this regard. That said, I think they should offer a trial period, at least, so that users can test and decide if a given upgrade is worth the costs for them. I do hope that in the next step they won't pull back the freedom to upgrade, too, and move to Adobe's business model. If that happens I'm definetly done with Topaz.

Wolfgang
 

by DChan on Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:04 pm
DChan
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2015
Joined: 09 Jan 2009
WJaekel wrote:
I think it's problematic that they advertised their products as having free upgrades...


And they were. I first bought their plug-ins in 2011. All upgrades for all my plug-ins were free. To be honest I was surprised that they didn't charge even a penny for it. Don't know if it was because they wanted to compete with Nik's back then (Topaz's plug-ins were much cheaper than Nik's). Now I just hope that they would consider lower prices for the upgrade/update subscription.

Oh, Photomatix's upgrade/update is also free.
 

by Ed Cordes on Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:32 pm
User avatar
Ed Cordes
Forum Contributor
Posts: 4142
Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Location: Corning, NY
Member #:00700
I have been using a few of the Topaz AI modules for a while now. Seems to me that the updates including the new AI data base from which the software makes decisions should be included in the purchase price. If an entirely new algorithm comes out then a charge is appropriate.
Remember, a little mild insanity keeps us healthy
 

by Richard B. on Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:53 pm
Richard B.
Lifetime Member
Posts: 249
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Location: Central Massachusetts
Member #:01199
I suppose you might easily conclude that this was their plan all along - bait, cast, and hook. I don't know and will not second guess them. I recognize the need to make a profit; I thought the long letter from the CEO was extra ordinary and essentially admitted they messed up.

However, if you are going to change your pricing model, this change is far more palatable to me than what Adobe did. I still have the perpetual license and I can choose if, and perhaps more importantly, when I want to upgrade. If Adobe had adopted this pricing model, I would most likely still be an active customer. To my knowledge, this was not an option when Adobe changed to subscription.

All that being said, I am sure Adobe sorely misses by monthly pennies. :lol: 

Richard
 

by WJaekel on Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:08 am
User avatar
WJaekel
Forum Contributor
Posts: 589
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Location: Germany
DChan wrote:
WJaekel wrote:
I think it's problematic that they advertised their products as having free upgrades...


And they were. I first bought their plug-ins in 2011. All upgrades for all my plug-ins were free. To be honest I was surprised that they didn't charge even a penny for it........


Yes, but as many posters at the Topazlabs community and at dpreview pointed out, the essence of the problem is the previous advertising of LIFETIME FREE UPGRADES and then, after people bought the product, change the policy to upgrades for a price. As said, I could understand to charge new customers for upgrades based on their reasoning and need for making money. But pulling back their selling point and promise for existing custormers is a breach of trust, at least - some even consider it as a breach of contract.

Additionally, though I agree with E.J and others that their new model isn't the same as Adobe's (yet) because you still can use your old versions and are not forced to upgrade them - up to now, at least, - it's a valid question how long you actually can rely on that. They definetly have lost confidence, IMO. So the changes could also indicate an intermediate step to a full Adobe-like subscription model. As proved now, they don't feel committed to their previous statements. We will see.

Wolfgang
 

by signgrap on Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:34 am
User avatar
signgrap
Lifetime Member
Posts: 1694
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Delaware Water Gap, PA
Member #:00424
I think they made their mistake was when they moved to AI software.  AI software is extraordinarily labor-intensive to create.  For visual AI programs to work it requires millions upon millions of images to the be reviewed and analyzed.  My guess is that when they first started with AI they grossly underestimated the amount of time and effort it would take to create AI programs that work properly.  The previous plug-ins that Topaz had delivered in the years prior to their move to AI were relatively simple to create when compared to the complexity of AI software.  When Topaz came to the realization that AI was the future they also quickly realized that their previous business model was economically impossible to continue, hence their move from lifetime software to paid upgrades.
Dick Ludwig
 

Display posts from previous:  Sort by:  
10 posts | 
  

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group