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by WJaekel on Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:57 pm
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I noticed a slight but evident color shift in my images in AI Clear compared to the original Tiff files that had been converted to 16 bit prophotoRGB files through Capture One 12 before. I'm currently postprocessing my images that I took on a photo trip to Chile for shooting pumas. I.e. the color of the fur of the cats that has a brown to slightly reddish color in the original raw files and converted Tiffs is shifted towards a slightly more greenish/cyan appearance in AI Clear. Though it's just a slight shift it's clearly visible if you toggle between the original and preview in AI Clear or compare the original and exported file in PS by boosting the color saturation in the Hue/Saturation tool to 100% for checking the colors. All settings in AI Clear are left at default and no other filters is applied in Topaz Studio 2. There's no difference from the original file after the image has been imported in Topaz Studio2. But once the AI Clear filter is opened, the change of the tonality is visible. In summary it looks like the reds generally are a bit desaturated and the overall color tends a bit more to green. Though you could live with the appearance or try to meet the color of the original by applying a HSL-filter in Topaz Studio or fiddle around in PS, I thought that AI Clear should not change the color/Hue/saturation of the imported files. That said, I have not been working much with AI Clear to date but cannot see if I'm doing something wrong. Of course, I'm working on a correctly calibrated monitor.

I would like to know if others have experienced the color shift described above and appreciate any comments what could be wrong here.

Thank you in advance

Wolfgang
 

by Scott B on Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:04 pm
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Wolfgang I am seeing the same thing, I have only noticed it since the last update to AI Clear.
 

by DChan on Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:19 pm
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My impression is AI Clear in Topaz Studio does not simply sharpen and de-noise your image. It re-distribute the "light" and contrast, which then affect the appearance of the details in different parts of the image and the shades of the colors. You don't need AI Clear if you have other program that can do sharpening and de-noising.
 

by signgrap on Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:36 am
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DChan wrote:
My impression is AI Clear in Topaz Studio does not simply sharpen and de-noise your image. It re-distribute the "light" and contrast, which then affect the appearance of the details in different parts of the image and the shades of the colors. You don't need AI Clear if you have other program that can do sharpening and de-noising.

I find that many of the Topaz apps over do their effects at default settings. When using AI Clear I typically will set the Opacity slider to between 35 - 70% till I get a look that isn't so "crunchy". 
Dick Ludwig
 

by david fletcher on Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:26 pm
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signgrap wrote:
DChan wrote:
My impression is AI Clear in Topaz Studio does not simply sharpen and de-noise your image. It re-distribute the "light" and contrast, which then affect the appearance of the details in different parts of the image and the shades of the colors. You don't need AI Clear if you have other program that can do sharpening and de-noising.

I find that many of the Topaz apps over do their effects at default settings. When using AI Clear I typically will set the Opacity slider to between 35 - 70% till I get a look that isn't so "crunchy". 



Yup.... I'd agree with that.  learned with Topaz, which I do use and like very much, default does become "crunchy".  

Just would add that I've used the eraser tool quite effectively as it allows me to selectively adjust one area, (bringing back the opacity, contrast as originally seen), and then another area to differing degrees by adjusting the opacity also.  (Just the same as I would when using noise ware programs).  

Short summary, I prefer to alter the strength of Topaz by using the eraser tool at differing opacity settings depending on the area I want to adjust.  
Make your life spectacular!
 

by Phil Shaw on Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:15 pm
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I've stopped using the Topaz software. When you are getting the software for free (I did), my initial thought was - wow: good deal. What I should have been thinking was - wow; they want me as a beta-tester.
 

by WJaekel on Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:48 pm
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Thank you very much for all your comments so far. It's good to know that the color shift isn't caused by any user error but is noticed by others, too. In fact, I don't see that in the original AI Clear filter but only in the new  version based on Studio 2. So evidentally something is changed there and the new version seems to have a stronger effect at default, too. Basically I've been very impressed with AI Clear up to now, because the one-step combination of noise reduction, sharpening and keeping of the details requires much more time and efforts with other tools. I have used Define and Neatimage for noise reduction (and still use those programs) but masking and keeping or even recovering the details of the sunject via selections needs a lot more time if you have to work on hundreds or even thousands of images that were captured at higher ISOs as it is the case with my puma photographs - many of them shot in low light. I agree that AI Clear renders the images too crunchy at default (as AI sharpen does too) and I will have to try to adapt the strength with the opacity slider or via the eraser tool as David does. Anyway, to avoid the color shift seems to require additional work.

Wolfgang
 

by E.J. Peiker on Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:02 am
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Wolfgang, have you tried running AI Clear from inside DeNoise AI instead of Studio 2? Does it have the same color shift? While I see the slight color shift, I attribute it mostly to the change in contrast inherent in any kind of tool that applies a color based tone curve, which AI Clear does only on a micro level. Neither Topaz nor Nik support a luma based curve so color shifts are inherent in how they work.
 

by WJaekel on Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:40 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
Wolfgang, have you tried running AI Clear from inside DeNoise AI instead of Studio 2?  Does it have the same color shift?  While I see the slight color shift, I attribute it mostly to the change in contrast inherent in any kind of tool that applies a color based tone curve, which AI Clear does only on a micro level.  Neither Topaz nor Nik support a luma based curve so color shifts are inherent in how they work.


Thank you very much for your comment, E.J. As you suggested, I ran AI Clear from inside Denoise AI on 3 of my files today and didn't notice a color shift via this approach. However, I have to do more tests and comparisons to be sure if there's in fact a reproducible difference between AI Clear via Studio2 and AI Clear via Denoise on all files since the color shift in AI Clear through Studio2 can be barely noticeable or more evident, depending on the content and colors of the original, too. Given the same tool, it would be strange if there's a permanent difference of the two approaches (provided the same settings at default) unless the Studio 2 itself has an impact, too or the tone curve is different if Ai Clear is run from inside the Studio. But as said, I have not yet come to a final conclusion and will need to do more testing before.

Wolfgang
 

by E.J. Peiker on Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:12 am
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WJaekel wrote:
E.J. Peiker wrote:
Wolfgang, have you tried running AI Clear from inside DeNoise AI instead of Studio 2?  Does it have the same color shift?  While I see the slight color shift, I attribute it mostly to the change in contrast inherent in any kind of tool that applies a color based tone curve, which AI Clear does only on a micro level.  Neither Topaz nor Nik support a luma based curve so color shifts are inherent in how they work.


Thank you very much for your comment, E.J. As you suggested, I ran AI Clear from inside Denoise AI on 3 of my files today and didn't notice a color shift via this approach. However, I have to do more tests and comparisons to be sure if there's in fact a reproducible difference between AI Clear via Studio2 and AI Clear via Denoise on all files since the color shift in AI Clear through Studio2 can be barely noticeable or more evident, depending on the content and colors of the original, too. Given the same tool, it would be strange if there's a permanent difference of the two approaches (provided the same settings at default) unless the Studio 2 itself has an impact, too or the tone curve is different if Ai Clear is run from inside the Studio. But as said, I have not yet come to a final conclusion and will need to do more testing before.

Wolfgang

Intriguing, I wonder if Studio runs in a different color space... 
 

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