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by Joerg Rockenberger on Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:05 am
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Hi, I am considering buying the Sony a7rIII which forces me to move on from ACR/Photoshop CS6 as I don't want to follow Adobe's subscription model. 

Most discussions re alternate raw developers focus on the resulting image quality. And it seems Capture One Pro is considered the current top standard whereas Affinity seems to be behind ACR even. I'd be curious to hear how ON1 Photo Raw 2019 ranks in that order... 

And I am fairly sure that I won't consider Capture One Pro as an option. A previous attempt with a trial version was very frustrating as the learning curve appeared rather steep...

But there are other considerations in choosing a new platform which I haven't seen being discussed:
1) compatibility with PSD files? Or more precisely how accurately do the various software options render files from PS CS6?
2) ease/difficulty of integration with color management?
3) how easy is it to print from these applications and how does the resulting print quality compare to printing from PS CS6? Note, I'd prefer to exclude additional apps for printing for the purpose of this discussion.
4) are keywords assigned to raw/psd files in Bridge displayed in these applications?
5) the only external module I am frequently using is Nik's Silver Efex Pro (original/Google version). Does any of the packages have an equivalent capability? Or does the old Silver Efex Pro integrate well with these newer apps?
6) how is the support for camera/lens profiles from Sony and Zeiss?
7) what is the financial stability/viability of the companies? I know this is impossible to assess from the outside but DXO's bankruptcy filing is a cautionary tale. Investing the time to learn a new software platform, and then the company disappears shortly after would be extremely frustrating...
edit 8: do the apps deal well with high-res displays? It's been a bit annoying for a while already that Bridge doesn't properly render the file previews on a retina display.

I know these are lots of questions, and there may be even more considerations - please feel free to share. And most of them won't be truly resolved until I try the different software options myself. But I'd be curious to hear what the collective wisdom/experience here suggests what the "best" path forward is. Or why you made the choice you did...

Thanks so much! Best. Joerg 
 

by Cynthia Crawford on Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:24 am
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Hi

I don't have many answers for you, but I do think PSD is very proprietary and unlikely to function well elsewhere. The only solution I've found is to convert all PSDs to TIFFs, and that would be a monumental task. How about Lightroom? I don't use it, but many people do.  For printing, I find PS best for profiling, but haven't explored other options.
Surprised you don't see good previews on Retina from Bridge. They look fine to me, but I am using PS CC-succumbed to that after similar explorations for alternatives. I know PS so well after some 15 years with it-they get you coming and going.
I have recently been using Topaz Studio, as discussed elsewhere -it's pretty impressive. It will look at a PSD file, but I'm not sure about how it is processed. You get this warning:
Image
Going to the help center results in "you are not authorized to view this page", even when logged in!
But I digress. You CAN see PSD files on the Topaz Studio stand-alone APP. Topaz seems to be very reliable (so far) and constantly innovating. I have used various Topaz apps for about 5 years. Up until recently, however, I have not found their image processing to be as effective as PS. Now I find the new PRO functions are pretty amazing, and easy to use. You can save as TIFF, TSP (?), JPG and PNG.  They have a free trial, and stuff is on sale for Black Friday, etc.

Hope that helps a bit.
Cynthia (Cindy) Crawford-Moderator, Photo & Digital Art
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"If I Keep a Green Bough in My Heart, the Singing Bird Will Come"  Chinese Proverb
 

by signgrap on Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:31 am
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In 2014 I started using a Sony a7R (had been using a Canon 7D). At the same time Adobe ticked me off enough to move on to Capture One Pro. C1 also had better RAW conversions than LR or ACR because Phase One was the only company that had access to Sony's sensor engineering because they used Sony sensors in their Phase One cameras. I haven't looked back since. C1 does have a steep learning curve but now they have very good video tutorials that are searchable. The latest version of C1 is very powerful and versatile. C1 satisfies about 90-95% of my post processing needs. I had been using CS6 & NIK for the remainder but have recently been playing around with Topaz. My current camera is a Sony a7R III. I have relied heavily on E.J. insights on what software to use and have found his recommendations to be spot-on. Making a move to a new camera system is a big deal for me but have not regretted it because the Sony sensor is so much better than the Canon.
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by EGrav on Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:39 am
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Another vote for Capture One Pro. Watch 5 or 6 of the excellent webinars and you will have all of the basics. The learning curve is not really that steep - it's a mindset from using adobe over the years.
V 12 should be released in next week or so....
 

by david fletcher on Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:21 pm
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Ok.. Sort of get that. I've been trying all day to talk to Adobe. can't view Z7 files in ACR and they are just the most frustrating company to deal with. It's literally taken me 4 hours to walk though THEIR HOOPs..

only way I got their attention is to go through the cancellation process as I'm at a place when the updates do not install, despite the auto updates saying I have the latest version,. FYI I actually am running 14.2.1 when they updated in October. My ACR repeatedly tells me I am using the latest version which I am clearly not.

As it stands, they are a company that are so user unfriendly, that I will probably exit their scheme and let them get on with it.
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by E.J. Peiker on Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:00 am
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OK here we go for Capture One Pro which is what I use for all camera bodies. To your questions:
1. Yes no problem
2. Automatic
3. A lot of C1P users print from it but realize it is not Photoshop or a raster processor and isn't intended to be. It is the most powerfull RAW processor in the world. I shoot my images from C1P into CS6 for printing but many print directly from C1P and there are plenty of tutorials out there on how best to do that.
4. Not sure, I don't use Keywording. I know there is a Lightroom catalog import module that probably does but from ACR, I do not know.
5. C1P has Black and white tools - it doesn't have some of the special effects that Silver Effex has but for pure B&W it is very capable. Again, turorials are out there.
6. Almost all lenses are supported - 100% from Sony and just about all of them from Zeiss
7. C1P is used throughout the advertising, fashion, product photogrtaphy and commercial photography industry. Even if Phase One as a company ran into trouble, it would either be sold or spun off as a separate company. I am not worried about that.
8. C1P is fully aware and scaled to work with high def monitors, even greater than 4K monitors such as the iMacs 5K monitors.
 

by Joerg Rockenberger on Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:00 am
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Thanks E.J. for addressing my questions. Do you have any thoughts on On1 Photo Raw 2019 as a raw developer relative to ACR and C1? And is it likely that Affinity revises their raw engine to catch up with ACR and others?

Best. Joerg
 

by Joerg Rockenberger on Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:02 am
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EGrav wrote:Another vote for Capture One Pro. Watch 5 or 6 of the excellent webinars and you will have all of the basics. The learning curve is not really that steep - it's a mindset from using adobe over the years.
V 12 should be released in next week or so....
It's a bit more than just overcoming a "adobe mindset". It's also a question about how much of C1's capability I need for my purposes, and how long it takes to get there. In my experience, and as most attest to here, C1 is anything but intuitive...
 

by Joerg Rockenberger on Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:08 am
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signgrap wrote:In 2014 I started using a Sony a7R (had been using a Canon 7D). At the same time Adobe ticked me off enough to move on to Capture One Pro. C1 also had better RAW conversions than LR or ACR because Phase One was the only company that had access to Sony's sensor engineering because they used Sony sensors in their Phase One cameras.  I haven't looked back since. C1 does have a steep learning curve but now they have very good video tutorials that are searchable. The latest version of C1 is very powerful and versatile. C1 satisfies about 90-95% of my post processing needs. I had been using CS6 & NIK for the remainder but have recently been playing around with Topaz. My current camera is a Sony a7R III. I have relied heavily on E.J. insights on what software to use and have found his recommendations to be spot-on.  Making a move to a new camera system is a big deal for me but have not regretted it because the Sony sensor is so much better than the Canon.
Oh yeah, I jumped ship from Canon to Sony when the a7rII was released. And I am not getting back. It was then that I tried to use the C1 for Sony software and... let's just say that didn't go well.

The barrier to having to learn a new software actually prevented me from upgrading to the rIII earlier. But the time has come as I keep missing action shots due to the AF limitations of the rII...

Best.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:21 am
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Joerg Rockenberger wrote:Thanks E.J. for addressing my questions. Do you have any thoughts on On1 Photo Raw 2019 as a raw developer relative to ACR and C1? And is it likely that Affinity revises their raw engine to catch up with ACR and others?

Best. Joerg
No, haven't used it.  But since Sony is in bed with Phase One and Sony has made Capture one the official RAW processor for Sony cameras, I probably would just go with that.
 

by DChan on Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:55 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:[snip] It is the most powerfull RAW processor in the world. [snip]
OK, I'll bite: most powerful in what sense?

Strictly on processing raw files, what are the things that only Capture One Pro can do while nobody else's can?


FYI, I also have Capture One Pro.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:53 am
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DChan wrote:
E.J. Peiker wrote:[snip] It is the most powerfull RAW processor in the world. [snip]
OK, I'll bite: most powerful in what sense?

Strictly on processing raw files, what are the things that only Capture One Pro can do while nobody else's can?


FYI, I also have Capture One Pro.
Explore all that it is capable of including non-destructive layers prior to RAW conversion, LCC profile capability, better workspace customization, the capability to run in catalogue mode, session mode, or a traditional folder based approach, simultaneous processing of multiple recipes to different locations, far and away the best and most reliable tethering, the most powerful color editor on the market, the skin tone editor which can actually be used on any color which allows you to easily in a few seconds to correct overpolarization spots in the sky, keystone correction that does not change the aspect ratio of the subject - those are just a few that immediately come to mind.  If I spent some time on it I probably could fill up a full page.
 

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