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by Bill Chambers on Thu May 18, 2017 10:04 am
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I'm posting this in Digital forum because I don't know where else to put it.  It kinda has something to do with computers.

Ed,  do they make "computer glasses"?  I use reading glasses for reading things up close (12-15") but they don't work for viewing my computer monitors (24 or so inches away).  Do you know if something exists that helps at that range?
When life deals you lemons, make lemonade; when it deals you tomatoes, make Bloody Mary's.
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by Royce Howland on Thu May 18, 2017 11:56 am
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Hey Bill. I'm not Ed :) but yes there are computer glasses. I have a 2nd set of glasses with more specialized progressive focus lenses made by Zeiss. They are optimized for computer usage or similar forms of arms-length type work. (I can use them for reading as well.) I can't wear them for normal stuff because distance focusing is usually a bit too compromised. But for casual use around the interior of home & office including lots of computer and other semi-close work, they are ideal. I wouldn't be without them...

https://www.zeiss.com/vision-care/en_de/spectacle-lenses-from-zeiss/lenses-for-computer-glasses.html
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by Bill Chambers on Thu May 18, 2017 11:57 am
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Thanks Royce - will check them out!
When life deals you lemons, make lemonade; when it deals you tomatoes, make Bloody Mary's.
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by E.J. Peiker on Thu May 18, 2017 1:04 pm
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I have a pair of glasses made for my eyes with optimal sharpness at 30" and they work pretty well from about 18" to 15 feet.
 

by Bill Chambers on Thu May 18, 2017 2:17 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
I have a pair of glasses made for my eyes with optimal sharpness at 30" and they work pretty well from about 18" to 15 feet.

Interesting.  Did you just have them made at an eyeglass place or what?  I didn't realize they could do that.  If you don't mind, would you share how much they cost?
When life deals you lemons, make lemonade; when it deals you tomatoes, make Bloody Mary's.
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by E.J. Peiker on Thu May 18, 2017 3:04 pm
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At one of my annual visits to my eye doctor I asked him about it and he did a few extra tests to fine tune my prescription for 30"
 

by Bill Chambers on Thu May 18, 2017 4:06 pm
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Thanks E.J.
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by jrhoffman75 on Fri May 19, 2017 5:56 am
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Measure the distance between your eyes and monitor screen when you are sitting at your workstation. Then have your optometrist make a special pair of glasses. Cost me $100 as a package price for lenses and frames.
 

by SantaFeJoe on Fri May 19, 2017 9:24 am
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You might also consider these:

https://gunnar.com/prescription-lenses/

Joe
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by signgrap on Fri May 19, 2017 10:18 am
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Bill as you can see from the above posts many MSN members use computer glasses. I also use them and have used them for over 20 years and have become more dependent on them as my eyes age. The cost of your glasses is dependent on what needs to be corrected in your vision i.e. the more complex your prescription the more your glasses will cost. I would highly recommend a premium anti-reflective coating on your lenses. I use the top of the line Zeiss anti-reflective coating, just as they are very effective when used on a camera lens the same holds true for eyeglass lenses. I also highly recommend that you include a bifocal lens in your computer glasses, assuming you use bifocal/reading glasses to read. I find the bifocals indispensable when I need to read some printed material while working on the computer. Yes it adds to the cost of the glasses but I find it money well spent. 
People work at different viewing distances from a monitor. Many things influence this distance e.g. screen size, screen resolution, what is a comfortable distance for you may not be for someone else. The new 4K and 5K monitors are designed to be viewed from what seemed to me, a surprisingly close distance, so check to make sure that you are viewing your monitor at the manufactures recommended viewing distance. Once you have found a comfortable working distance I found it beneficial to have someone else measure the eye to screen distance with a yard stick. When I measured it myself I found that I moved my head slightly during the measuring process. I would do the measurement 3-4 times to ensure a consistent, accurate measurement. Your eye doctor should also use a yard stick when setting up your prescription. An accurate distance is vitally important in order to have well performing, comfortable pair of computer glasses.
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by Ed Okie on Fri May 19, 2017 11:49 am
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Bill Chambers wrote:
Ed,  do they make "computer glasses"?  I use reading glasses for reading things up close (12-15") but they don't work for viewing my computer monitors (24 or so inches away).  Do you know if something exists that helps at that range?

"Computer glasses" is simply a descriptive term, a pair purposed to focus critically at "X" distance; nothing more than a "single-vision" lens with the entire lens remaining in focus at "X" distance. Its counterpart is "Reading" glasses - the distance away you hold a magazine, book, or whatever.  16" focus distance is standard.

24-26" is a typical (and comfortable) viewing distance for computer monitors. The single-vision lens is ground to that specific focus distance. Being able to view left-right, up-down WITHOUT constantly turning your head/neck is a significant advantage - it is more comfortable, less wear & tear on the neck joints and muscles (neck and shoulder muscles).

The 26" distance is in reality the mid-range of a standard "Tri-focal" lens which has three separate horizontal segments, each focusing at different distances.  16";  26"; the top portion is "distance" vision. Once corrective vision is determined for your eyes (the far distance portion), the optician simply does a few math-calculations to arrive at closer distances, i.e., "+Diopter" values.

Using "Progressive vision" lenses for computer work... yes, they will work, but your neck is going to pay a price. A single-vision lens is far superior (plus least expensive of all lens types).
Tri-focal lenses will work reasonably well; I have a pair as everyday wear; the center segment (8mm high) matches the 26" viewing distance, but up and down viewing (of a big screen) requires head-movement, likewise if you look down at the keyboard occasionally. My single-vision "computer" glasses are - by far - the most comfortable to use.

Equally critical for Computer glasses - anti-reflective coatings (something I recommend for ALL lenses). Otherwise while seated at a computer you'll see your eyeball subtly reflected. Anti-reflective coatings are applied on BOTH sides of a lens, plus a lens stays cleaner, smudges less, repels water drops.

Coatings: "Crizal" is a brand name. Offered in five (5) coating levels (layers) $110 to $180 were quotes. I'd recommend at least one step above least expensive: "Advanced" is mid-level,  then Sapphire,  then Prevencia... the latter allegedly designed for computers, allegedly removing more eye-damaging Blue-Violet light, allegedly allowing beneficial Blue-Turquoise light to flow through.

Then you read "the fine print" - it touts 20-25% of the bad stuff is removed... without mentioning that 80% still is flowing through!  Alleged generation sources: LED lighting, Fluorescent lights, Smart phones, TVs, computer monitors, tablets and e-readers, and of course Sunshine. Highest-quality coating only cost $20 more so I tried the "computer" coated version; a faint yellow-tint to the lens, similar to what you see when using high-end binoculars. After a years' use... I can't report any advantage or use-difference. But do absolutely get an anti-reflective coating; mid-level is fine.  Single-vision "computer" lenses likewise - highly - recommended.

Case in point: As monitors have gotten bigger and bigger the "single vision" lens is at its best advantage - comfort use. (I've had a 32" NEC SpectraView 4K for over a year, positioned (eyeball-to-screen surface) at 26"; the entire L-R width is viewable and in sharp focus without turning my head). Likely heresy to suggest this: the 32" screen is too big for comfort and presents a massive piece of hardware on the desk. 27" is an better size, more monitor choices available plus less expensive.

An aside: 4K monitors - mandate - that you sit relatively close, 19" according to NEC, to gain the full 4K higher-resolution optical advantage. The 4K image viewed from say 36" away or farther... you're wasting your money buying 4K; there will be no detail difference than perceived by a "normal-resolution" screen, i.e., 24" monitor 1920 x 1200, or a 27" 2560 x 1440 monitor (both at a 26" viewing distance).
 

by Mark Picard on Fri May 19, 2017 2:14 pm
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jrhoffman75 wrote:
Measure the distance between your eyes and monitor screen when you are sitting at your workstation. Then have your optometrist make a special pair of glasses. Cost me $100 as a package price for lenses and frames.



This is  exactly what I did too and they cost me $90. I picked out the cheapest frame they had (not fashion conscientious)! - great and detailed answer from Okie in a previous post.
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by DChan on Fri May 19, 2017 2:26 pm
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I use a pair of glasses suggested by my optometrist for medium and close distances use. I'd say it's basically a progressive without the part for distant viewing. I have asked how the medium distance was determined and was told that it was simply calculated based on the prescriptions for far and close distances viewing. Since it's a progressive, I've found that if needed I can simply use the topmost part of the lenses to see subjects father than 30 plus inches away. I wonder if this can be done with the so-called computer glasses tailor-made for focusing at a specific distance.
 

by SantaFeJoe on Fri May 19, 2017 3:44 pm
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DChan wrote:
Since it's a progressive, I've found that if needed I can simply use the topmost part of the lenses to see subjects father than 30 plus inches away. I wonder if this can be done with the so-called computer glasses tailor-made for focusing at a specific distance.

Yes, it can be done. Gunnar, which I linked to above, has one called the "Office Progressive". The "Amber" lenses eliminate 65% of the harmful high-intensity blue, or , in their "Crystalline" lens, 10%. The "Crystalline" lens is designed to render the colors more naturally for artists and such. These are not made for, as you say, "a specific distance".

https://gunnar.com/amber-vs-crystalline/

Joe
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by Bill Chambers on Fri May 19, 2017 7:59 pm
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SantaFeJoe wrote:
You might also consider these:

https://gunnar.com/prescription-lenses/

Joe



Thanks Joe,

There seems to be a Gunnar retailer here in Pensacola.  Will check them out next week.
When life deals you lemons, make lemonade; when it deals you tomatoes, make Bloody Mary's.
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by Ed Okie on Sun May 21, 2017 11:41 am
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DChan wrote:
I use a pair of glasses suggested by my optometrist for medium and close distances use. I'd say it's basically a progressive without the part for distant viewing. I have asked how the medium distance was determined and was told that it was simply calculated based on the prescriptions for far and close distances viewing. Since it's a progressive, I've found that if needed I can simply use the topmost part of the lenses to see subjects farther than 30 plus inches away.

Not to be brash but an optometrist saying "made for medium and close distance" without revealing exact focus distance, and not probing your specific needs - I'd suggest find another practitioner. But you the customer need to be specific in what you need, the specific use. If your photo-pursuits are modest (and there's nothing wrong with that), a generic lens for eyeglasses may be suitable.

Combining "Progressive lens" in the same sentence as "Computer lens" is . . . is akin to photo expert E.J Peiker saying he's going to use an 18-300mm zoom lens and produce a resolution-perfect landscape picture! It ain't gonna' happen. Or printing expert Royce Howland at Resolve Photo in Calgary using refilled inkjet cartridges bought at a local BigBox store at a 50% discount. Not gonna' happen! [Neither gentleman have I met, but I highly respect their superb skill sets and wealth of knowledge].

E.J. will readily tell you a Prime lens will out-shoot a zoom lens. Few people will argue. "Primes" are used when we seek "perfection," zooms are used when convenience overrides the need for best-possible. For detailed work on a computer monitor "Perfection" is highly desired, doubly important when viewing across extended hours. Eye muscles are the same as bicep muscles - with extended use both fatigue, become less capable.

Progressive lenses in eyeglasses are chosen for convenience - not image exactness. They are a vision compromise... good for many things, but not great at any one thing. Whereas, the single-vision "computer lens" is the comparative of a Prime lens - built for a specific purpose.  Progressive lenses vary appreciably in quality, yet all suffer especially in - width - viewing; a lens might be 2" in diameter... only 1" of different segments are worthy. Aiming appropriate lens-segments at the monitor, extra L-R head and neck movement is required. And because the Progressive lens is effectively, inherently a "zoom" lens by design... clarity, sharpness and resolution suffer, even chromatic aberration.

For photographic work, especially at monitor level, there is no substitute for quality eyeglasses. Eye and brain fatigue is the lurking monster when our vision is compromised. A one-off glance at a single picture - there's not a huge difference in eyeglasses, all will work. But what we experience and endure hours later - Ouch! Everything becomes fuzzy, the headache, neck and shoulder muscle ache. Less enjoyable is the post-processing experience. Same would apply while reading a book.

Highly recommended reading:  "Lens Rental's" website, Roger Cicala is another expert resource of information, his May 16, 2017 column; "My issues with camera lens UV filters." The subject is - identical - to eyeglass lenses. Anything "on-the-cheap"... you're invariably shortchanging yourself. Particularly ironic in context that accomplished photographers typically spend $10,000, $20,000 or more on cameras, lenses and computer equipment. Then use a second-rate filter? Your eyeglasses are no different!

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/05/yet-another-post-about-my-issues-with-uv-filters/

Mixing Progressive eyeglass lenses and computer monitor-screen viewing . . . is akin to spitting into the wind. Zoom lens or Prime lens, which do you want?

Ed Okie, Central Florida
 

by DChan on Sun May 21, 2017 1:41 pm
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okie wrote:
Not to be brash but an optometrist saying "made for medium and close distance" without revealing exact focus distance, and not probing your specific needs -



Actually, I do have a pair just for medium distance - a pair of "fixed" distance glasses if you will - and they works of course for viewing the monitor. However, if I have to do more than that, say, writing down notes from the screen and when I write, that medium distance pair of glasses do not work well as now when I look down, every thing I just wrote down on a piece of paper looks like a blur as now I'm looking at something at a distance closer or much closer than what the fixed distance pair of glasses are designed for. So, as suggested by my eye doctor, I think getting a pair of progressive glasses for medium and close distance is more practical for the rest of us than simply getting a pair that is good for some fixed distance.
As for if we need a pair of glasses that is designed for some specific distance, well, I've been wearing glasses for a long time. Pretty much all of them I did not specify what exact focus distance I wanted and they all work well in real life usages. I also found that for both of my medium-and-close progressive and fixed medium distance pairs, they all seem to work best for seeing things at a distance of 30" or more.
As for processing photographs and if you really need an excellent pair of glasses for that purpose, If it's for helping you dealing with the details you see on the computer screen, I think the focus - no pun intended - should rather be on what details one can see on the prints or other final medium the photograph is to be viewed. Then again, if eye fatigue is a concern, well, I think it's been recommended again and again that it's a good practice to look away from the screen every 20 minutes or so to give your eyes a break. After all, not every one can afford an excellent pair of glasses - IF you can tell an excellent pair from a not-so-good pair - to begin with :)
 
And I'm writing all these wearing my progressive glasses. :wink:
 

by Royce Howland on Tue May 23, 2017 6:21 pm
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Since my name was invoked :) I'll reiterate what I already posted in the my first response in this thread. There are in fact progressive computer lenses, and I'm wearing them as I type this. Mine are made by Zeiss and they are fantastic. I wouldn't be without them, and I certainly would never replace them with a fixed focal length lens. When I'm working, I need to see more than just at a fixed 24" distance or what have you. I'm going from reading or evaluating handheld material, to the computer screen, to other materials around my immediate desk environment, to people and things around the shop or office. Fixed focal length would be a tremendous frustration. My Zeiss progressive computer (or "office") lenses are ideal for my purposes.
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by Ed Cordes on Tue May 23, 2017 8:40 pm
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Wow! I am off line for a few days and I miss all the fun!  I am Ed Cordes and all the responses above are excellent. :)  The simplest form of computer glasses is to measure the distance from your eyes to the monitors you are using and ask your doc to calculate the power need.  This is pretty straight forward.  The disadvantage is that within the depth of field of the lens power the range of focus may be too limited for you.  Like many above I use "Office Progressives".  Ziess and Varilux make excellent lenses in this category. These lenses have the top of the lens adjusted for the monitor and the bottom for nearer distances.The advantage of these is that you have the majority of the lens focused for the monitor, but the bottom of the lens progresses in power to a more close distance for reading fine print on a hand held document.  This is a big advantage.  Disadvantage of this is that due to the progressive nature of the lenses the blending of the power may cause some distortion at the lens edges. However, I do not notice this. As was mentioned above the highest quality anti-reflective coatings are a huge advantage.  Also, as mentioned above, the style of the frame should be for a large enough lens to cover the field of view.  It does not have to be expensive.  Many people use an older frame and just have lenses place in it.

Bottom line is that when you reach a certain point in your visual development, i.e. age ;), glasses specifically designed for computer use will be of huge benefit to photographers, unless, of course, you are naturally myopic so your eyes naturally focus at the monitor distance.  You also have to remember to change glasses prior to driving as you may wonder why your eyes changed so fast.

I hope this helps.
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Last edited by Ed Cordes on Thu May 25, 2017 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 

by Ed Okie on Thu May 25, 2017 3:14 pm
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quote from Royce Howland
Since my name was invoked :) I'll reiterate what I already posted in the my first response in this thread. There are in fact progressive computer lenses, and I'm wearing them as I type this. Mine are made by Zeiss and they are fantastic. I wouldn't be without them... When I'm working, I need to see more than just at a fixed 24" distance ... going from reading or evaluating handheld material, to the computer screen ... to people and things around the shop or office. Fixed focal length would be a tremendous frustration. My Zeiss progressive computer (or "office") lenses are ideal for my purposes.


  Lemme' see... we now have:  Reading glasses, Computer glasses, Office glasses, Sunglasses, Transition glasses, Sports glasses, bi-focals, tri-focals and more! Enough to make anyone cross-eyed and confused!
  Royce, your choice of "office" glasses is spot-on correct; variable viewing distances throughout the day at your print shop. Lenses fix-focused at 26" would be unworkable.
  The key use of a "Prime" single-vision lens with 26" focus distance for monitor viewing: sharpest possible viewing and quality-corrections, plus, because of eye-comfort, it affords extended viewing time while working at a monitor post-processing images. Same applies when using other software, text-clarity.
  Single-vision is effectively a "Prime" lens, the same as acknowledged best with cameras. A wide-screen 32" monitor basically demands more than average peripheral (side) vision. Single-vision lenses are correctable for the widest field of view, better at controlling chromatic aberrations. Anti-glare coating is also part of the quality-secret, Four or five coating choices are typical. It's money well spent.
  Progressives with their built-in variable focus distance is very practical. High-quality Zeiss Progressives may well be the secret to Royce's success, either indicative of his wisdom, or luck with selecting a knowledgeable optician. An experienced craftsperson fitting glasses is vital to the success story. A nice way of saying: never mail-order glasses. Don't expect to find high-end technicians at most franchise stores, or at box-stores... probability is not in your favor.  
  Progressives, by their very nature are a comprise. They compare directly to a zoom lens on a camera, convenience is the trade off, with a modest to moderate loss in quality. Prime lenses are honed closer to perfection. Same applies to a single-vision eyeglass lens.
  Assumption:  if the lenses are properly fitted by a skilled optician.
  Royce's success with Progressive lenses undoubtedly stems from getting a very high quality lens.
  Brand names are troublesome and confusing. Zeiss, Nikon, Canon, Sigma make some of the very best camera lenses. All makers also produce lower quality lenses. Why spend $2,000 for a Nikon whatever... when I can get a great deal on a Nikon lens costing only $400? Deceptively, they look virtually the same. For a perceptive user the difference is Night & Day!
  Case in point: Nikon is the supplier of eyeglass lenses at Walmart. (Yes, you read that correct! Who-da-thunk?) What could be better? Cheaper price and Nikon brand name.
  Reality check: Walmart, Costco, Best Buy, et al, demand ultra-low prices from their suppliers. Supplier faces a rock and a hard place - a huge boost in business, ship trainloads of products... or say "No." There's only one way the supplier can survive: Produce a cheaper product, less quality control.
  Zeiss apparently sustains itself at a higher price-point and quality level. None exist near where I live, quality I can't verify or lend first-hand experience.
  Brand names in the eyeglass industry, so many corporate "buyouts" in the past decade that who owns whom, is a dart-toss. Example, Kodak went out of business, bankrupt years ago. Yet, quality Kodak eyeglass lenses are readily available!

  Essilor (brand name) owns Signet Armorlite, the originator of quality lenses reaching back to 1947. Headquarters, U.S. distribution center and lens technology center, Signetek, are located in California. Glass lenses and molds are designed and produced at Crossbows Optical, a wholly owned subsidiary located in Northern Ireland. Signet Armorlite holds worldwide distribution for KODAK Lenses and is an Authorized Distributor for 3M Optical Supplies in the United States. In 1993 before Kodak went belly-up, Eastman Kodak Company issued a licensing agreement to Signet Armorlite for the exclusive right to use the KODAK brand name for premium ophthalmic lenses.
  Is "price" the answer toward lens quality?  I am convinced there is a direct correlation.
  Where total price gets vastly distorted... frames, often sold at exorbitant prices. All are much the same, relatively inexpensive to make. Yet, add a "designer" fashion name and kiss your wallet goodbye.
  Fundamentally: The lens itself is a worthy investment. Same applies to lens coatings. "You get what you pay for." A skilled technician worth his or her weight in gold.

  Royce paired with Zeiss, it's a match perfectly suited to his ultra-high quality inkjet photo printing business.
  Do note: Zeiss produces FOUR different product levels. By itself, "Zeiss" isn't a magic bullet.

[quotes from the Zeiss website]
Quality class 3: Point-by-point optimization with freeform technology
Clarity that will astound you! Single-vision lenses in this performance tier are produced with cutting-edge ZEISS freeform technology, achieving even greater visual comfort across the entire surface of the lens and virtually eliminating the distortions at the lens periphery that are found in conventional single-vision lenses. Single-vision lenses in this quality class take more aspects of the individual wearer’s prescription into account in the production process including sphere, cylinder, axis, prism and prism base. The lens design is extremely thin and flat, and everything appears clearer and more natural.

Quality class 4: As unique as a fingerprint – the top of the range
If you are looking for the very best, then this performance tier is for you! Single-vision lenses in quality class 4 offer the ultimate experience for your eyes. Incorporating all the data measured by your eye care professional and using cutting-edge production methods, these lenses offer superb visual clarity in all directions right to the edge of the lens – even with strong prescriptions. At the same time, these highly individualized lenses ensure extraordinarily high wearer tolerance, even with high cylinders and prismatic prescriptions. This quality class offers the ultimate in lens individualization.

  The above descriptions represent the latest technology and manufacturing techniques, a.k.a., High-Definition lenses. It primarily determines the quality of peripheral vision (side-vision, beyond the narrow center zone of sharpness).
  Without exception: high-def lenses require specialized fitment, a skilled optician - not the average Joe. Eyeglasses bought by mail... don't even think about! A fitment optician isn't even part of the process.
  I highly suspect Royce may well have High-def Progressive lenses (plus superb coatings).

Are you a candidate for high-definition lenses?
Virtually anyone who wears eyeglasses is a good candidate for high-definition eyeglass lenses, but individuals with higher eyeglass prescriptions may notice greater benefits than people with only mild prescriptions. Perhaps one of the best indicators that high-definition eyeglass lenses might be a good choice is if your optometrist or ophthalmologist says you have healthy eyes and 20/20 vision, but you are bothered by glare or your vision seems indistinct. Astigmatism correction is likewise a critical aspect, even a few degrees off spells trouble.

Cost of high-definition lenses
Because of the sophisticated technology used to design and fabricate free-form and wavefront lenses and the added time and equipment required to fit them, expect to pay up to 25 to 30 percent more for high-definition eyeglass lenses, compared with conventional lenses of the same material and design. Many people who try them ­ particularly wearers who've been frustrated by a lack of crisp vision with glasses in the past ­ find free-form and wavefront lenses produce a noticeable improvement in clarity and comfort.

   Ed Okie,  Central Florida
 

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