fbpixel
  
« Previous topic | Next topic »  
Reply to topic  
 First unread post  | 19 posts | 
by OntPhoto on Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:39 pm
User avatar
OntPhoto
Forum Contributor
Posts: 6666
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario. Canada.
I've read up on several tips to deal with this topic including the use of fill-flash, etc.  What do you specifically do to deal with the green cast when taking photos in the woods? 
 

by E.J. Peiker on Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:33 pm
User avatar
E.J. Peiker
Senior Technical Editor
Posts: 83775
Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Location: Arizona
Member #:00002
You could do a manual white balance off of a gray card, or do a custom white balance under those conditions, or just shoot the gray card in the same light and then use that as the basis for your WB/Tint adjustments in your RAW converter.
 

by signgrap on Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:07 am
User avatar
signgrap
Lifetime Member
Posts: 1644
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Delaware Water Gap, PA
Member #:00424
E.J. Peiker wrote:
You could do a manual white balance off of a gray card, or do a custom white balance under those conditions, or just shoot the gray card in the same light and then use that as the basis for your WB/Tint adjustments in your RAW converter.

This is what I do as E.J. said "shoot the gray card in the same light and then use that as the basis for your WB/Tint adjustments in your RAW converter".
Dick Ludwig
 

by bradmangas on Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:56 pm
User avatar
bradmangas
Forum Contributor
Posts: 233
Joined: 15 Feb 2013
There are numerous techniques to deal with color cast. I do color cast / balance adjustments to every single image I process. Some need no adjustments and some full color cast correction. Are you doing any type of color balance now in post processing that seems to not be producing the results you are after?

I can post steps to a simple but effective adjustment I do in Photoshop if need be. If you happen to have something like the NIK software plugin it provides color correction adjustments as well within the Pro Contrast, White Balance, Color Cast Correction tools. Each one I use produces a slightly different result. Many times I check color balance more than one way and then choose the result that best fit what I want for the final result.
 

by OntPhoto on Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:02 pm
User avatar
OntPhoto
Forum Contributor
Posts: 6666
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario. Canada.
E.J. Peiker wrote:
You could do a manual white balance off of a gray card, or do a custom white balance under those conditions, or just shoot the gray card in the same light and then use that as the basis for your WB/Tint adjustments in your RAW converter.

Thanks E.J.  This is one of the suggestions I had read about.  I need to find  a way to carry a gray card into the woods.  Has anyone made a folding gray card yet?  There are the portable ones about the size of a deck of cards.  If you're shooting with a big lens, say 500 mm, how do you place the gray card?  Stick it on the side of a tree, angled against a rock, etc.?  I just had an idea.  Bring a smaller lens and take the WB with that and then put the 500 back on.

PS.  One of the very best things I ever did for shooting indoors (curling rink) was to use a gray card. This was back in 2002 with the P&S Canon G2. The colour in the photos came out looking really good.  But the lighting in those rinks are good anyways.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:44 pm
User avatar
E.J. Peiker
Senior Technical Editor
Posts: 83775
Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Location: Arizona
Member #:00002
Yes, there is a great little collapsable one that I use sometimes. It's called the Impact QuickBalance:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/981245-REG/impact_qbp_g_12_quickbalance_panel_18_percent_gray_12.html

It collapses like a window sunshield into a small pouch.
 

by Wildflower-nut on Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:59 pm
Wildflower-nut
Forum Contributor
Posts: 611
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
In the film days we would add a magenta filter 10cc works well as a one size fits all (carried a range of them) or do as I did and carry a color meter.  While green is the principal problem, in spring the leaves and/or blue sky can also change the color temperature so I carried 81 (used a lot), 85 and 82 (82 rarely use) series filters. Still use 85c for blue sky shade (think backside of ridge, valley or canyon where only light is from blue sky and color temperature can go beyond 10,000K) to keep from "underexposing" so to speak the red and green channels making final adjustments based on clicking a neutral in photoshop. Today, I just make sure there is something (a neutral) I can balance off of in Photoshop (just click on it) even just taking a shot with a small gray card and then removing it for the final picture.  I find photoshop automatically makes the adjustment just fine for my work.  Faster than doing a custom white balance in camera and "film" is cheap.  I'm doing flowers for field guides so accurate color is important (have used xrite to produce icc profile for sensor which is probably not necessary).  As to the telephoto, if you are in the same light just stick the card in front of the lens.  it really should not need to be in focus.  I use the WhiBal cards roughly the size of a credit card also available from b&h.


Last edited by Wildflower-nut on Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 

by DChan on Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:15 pm
DChan
Forum Contributor
Posts: 1953
Joined: 09 Jan 2009
OntPhoto wrote:
Quote:
...If you're shooting with a big lens, say 500 mm, how do you place the gray card?  Stick it on the side of a tree, angled against a rock, etc.? ...



You just have to place the gray card or whatever you use under the same lighting as your subject is in, i.e., if you're standing under the same lighting, you can just take a shot of the gray card where you stand and use it to do white balance in post processing.

In fact, you don't even need a gray card (which is better for setting exposure). You can simply use a piece of white or black paper or anything with neutral color, i.e., white, black and gray.
 

by Kari Post on Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:52 pm
User avatar
Kari Post
Forum Contributor
Posts: 7947
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Member #:00959
Also some lenses have a different color cast (usually quite subtle) so it's best to photograph the gray card with the same lens you are using to shoot the scene. When studio photographers are using swatches in studio for exactly color they are very careful to use the exact same equipment for their color card/gray card test shot as the subject shots.
Kari Post, NSN Editor 2009-2013
Check out my Website and Instagram
 

by OntPhoto on Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:52 pm
User avatar
OntPhoto
Forum Contributor
Posts: 6666
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario. Canada.
DChan wrote:
OntPhoto wrote:
Quote:
...If you're shooting with a big lens, say 500 mm, how do you place the gray card?  Stick it on the side of a tree, angled against a rock, etc.? ...



You just have to place the gray card or whatever you use under the same lighting as your subject is in, i.e., if you're standing under the same lighting, you can just take a shot of the gray card where you stand and use it to do white balance in post processing.

In fact, you don't even need a gray card (which is better for setting exposure). You can simply use a piece of white or black paper or anything with neutral color, i.e., white, black and gray.


This gray card that EJ recommended comes in 3 different sizes (12, 22 and 30). With a 500mm lens and the MFD, trying to get the 12 x 12 to cover the whole frame.  Is that good enough or is the 22 inch over-kill?  They fold down so carrying it a backpack isn't a problem. 

Quick Balance Gray Card
 

by signgrap on Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:04 pm
User avatar
signgrap
Lifetime Member
Posts: 1644
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Delaware Water Gap, PA
Member #:00424
The gray card does not have to cover the whole or even half of the image. A quarter or an eighth of the sensor is more than enough. The important thing to remember is that the light on the card needs to be the same as the light that is illuminating your the subject.
Dick Ludwig
 

by OntPhoto on Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:18 pm
User avatar
OntPhoto
Forum Contributor
Posts: 6666
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario. Canada.
signgrap wrote:
The gray card does not have to cover the whole or even half of the image. A quarter or an eighth of the sensor is more than enough. The important thing to remember is that the light on the card needs to be the same as the light that is illuminating your the subject.


Interesting.  What is I want to set the white balance in the field itself instead of using a gray reference in post-processing?

I think this post on another site explains what I'm trying to do.  This is why I was asking about the size of the gray card.


"I think we may be talking about two different things. If you are going to adjust the WB or color in post processing, then simply having a reference of 18% gray or pure white in one of your pictures is fine. If you want to have the WB 'nailed' for straight OOC jpegs, that need no adjustment, you'll need to fill the frame when setting a Pre WB."
 

by DChan on Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:52 am
DChan
Forum Contributor
Posts: 1953
Joined: 09 Jan 2009
OntPhoto wrote:
signgrap wrote:
The gray card does not have to cover the whole or even half of the image. A quarter or an eighth of the sensor is more than enough. The important thing to remember is that the light on the card needs to be the same as the light that is illuminating your the subject.


Interesting.  What is I want to set the white balance in the field itself instead of using a gray reference in post-processing?

I think this post on another site explains what I'm trying to do.  This is why I was asking about the size of the gray card.


"I think we may be talking about two different things. If you are going to adjust the WB or color in post processing, then simply having a reference of 18% gray or pure white in one of your pictures is fine. If you want to have the WB 'nailed' for straight OOC jpegs, that need no adjustment, you'll need to fill the frame when setting a Pre WB."


Perhaps you've missed it but E.J already told you that, i.e., custom white balance in the field, in his response to you.

You can do a custom (or preset as it's called by some manufacturer) white balance using anything white in the field. A simple thing to do is bring along a piece of white paper with you. I think the manual of your camera has instruction on how to do it. Basic stuff, really.
 

by Wildflower-nut on Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:54 pm
Wildflower-nut
Forum Contributor
Posts: 611
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
I tried custom white balances with icc profiling of the camera sensor and then went to just including a neutral and balancing in Photoshop.  Just remember your custom balance is only good in the precise lighting condition in which you made it.  When photographing flowers outdoors (under trees, irregular terrain, clouds going in and out, etc), there is too much variability in my experience for that approach.  You end up making a custom profile for each photo just as I made or adjusted custom filter packs for every photo based on color meter readings in the film days.

Also remember there is a difference between "pleasing color" and "accurate color".  Fujichrome film deliberately produced pleasing color not accurate color.  Basically a magenta cast with more color saturation.  Kodak who produced more accurate color found people preferred fuji's pleasing color later producing what I liked to call fuji-clone which they never got right.  Outside of product photography and a few other things, pleasing color is what most people want.  If your goal is pleasing color, getting color balance in the ball park may be good enough and then season to taste.  

Good luck.
 

by OntPhoto on Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:29 pm
User avatar
OntPhoto
Forum Contributor
Posts: 6666
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario. Canada.
DChan wrote:
OntPhoto wrote:
signgrap wrote:
The gray card does not have to cover the whole or even half of the image. A quarter or an eighth of the sensor is more than enough. The important thing to remember is that the light on the card needs to be the same as the light that is illuminating your the subject.


Interesting.  What is I want to set the white balance in the field itself instead of using a gray reference in post-processing?

I think this post on another site explains what I'm trying to do.  This is why I was asking about the size of the gray card.


"I think we may be talking about two different things. If you are going to adjust the WB or color in post processing, then simply having a reference of 18% gray or pure white in one of your pictures is fine. If you want to have the WB 'nailed' for straight OOC jpegs, that need no adjustment, you'll need to fill the frame when setting a Pre WB."


Perhaps you've missed it but E.J already told you that, i.e., custom white balance in the field, in his response to you.

You can do a custom (or preset as it's called by some manufacturer) white balance using anything white in the field. A simple thing to do is bring along a piece of white paper with you. I think the manual of your camera has instruction on how to do it. Basic stuff, really.

I have yet to read ANY camera manual.   :)   I have downloaded PDF's when I am looking for something specific.  I ordered 2 of the foldable gray cards, the 12 inch one linked above (Amazon) and a 24 inch one from another brand ($15).  I almost never need to use WB for bird photography other than Auto in the field except to warm up an image when shooting under overcast conditions.  For indoor photography under various lighting, I do try and do a Custom WB.  But the green cast in the field really bothered me as it was hard to fix in post.  I think the gray cards will do the trick for the green cast issue.  I've gone back and forth with shooting in RAW and then Jpeg.  I try and shoot RAW under iffy lighting conditions where I know I may have to really work on an image in post.  
 

by OntPhoto on Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:40 pm
User avatar
OntPhoto
Forum Contributor
Posts: 6666
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario. Canada.
Wildflower-nut wrote:
I tried custom white balances with icc profiling of the camera sensor and then went to just including a neutral and balancing in Photoshop.  Just remember your custom balance is only good in the precise lighting condition in which you made it.  When photographing flowers outdoors (under trees, irregular terrain, clouds going in and out, etc), there is too much variability in my experience for that approach.  You end up making a custom profile for each photo just as I made or adjusted custom filter packs for every photo based on color meter readings in the film days.

Also remember there is a difference between "pleasing color" and "accurate color".  Fujichrome film deliberately produced pleasing color not accurate color.  Basically a magenta cast with more color saturation.  Kodak who produced more accurate color found people preferred fuji's pleasing color later producing what I liked to call fuji-clone which they never got right.  Outside of product photography and a few other things, pleasing color is what most people want.  If your goal is pleasing color, getting color balance in the ball park may be good enough and then season to taste.  

Good luck.

You're right about that.  Sometimes people will set a WB that produces a certain mood which may not reflect the lighting of the real scene. 
 

by sdaconsulting on Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:49 pm
sdaconsulting
Forum Contributor
Posts: 550
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Location: Moncure, NC
I leave the cast in place if I have leaves in the image itself. Adds to the ambiance for me.

If it's an image without greenery in the frame, I'll just tweak the color balance manually in the RAW converter.
Matthew Cromer
 

by OntPhoto on Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:39 pm
User avatar
OntPhoto
Forum Contributor
Posts: 6666
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario. Canada.
I have received both the Impact QuikBalance Collapsible 12 inch Gray 'card' and the larger Andoer 24x24 inch Foldable Grey/White Balance 'card'.  It wasn't intuitive to fold these things back into a compact form but finally figured it out.  Double-twist was the key but I'm not sure I did it correctly. The 12 inch is really compact when folded back into the pouch (6 inches diameter when folded).  The 24 inch one also folds into a compact flat shape case (folded diameter in case is 9.5 inches).  Both models fold flat so can be put into any backpack without taking much space at all.

The QuikBalance 12 inch (folds down to 6 inch diameter) can be put into the back pocket compartments of small backpacks like the Canon Deluxe backpack 200 EG (very compact bag).  The larger Andoer 24 inch (folds down to 9.5 inches diagonal) will not fit into the outside pocket compartments of the same backpack. It likely will fit into the outside compartments of larger backpacks.

Image


Image


Image


Last edited by OntPhoto on Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
 

by OntPhoto on Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:31 am
User avatar
OntPhoto
Forum Contributor
Posts: 6666
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario. Canada.
Was surprised that the gray card placed against a tree in front of the owl got its attention.  The owl kept looking at it for a long time which was unusual as I was nowhere near the gray card but the owl kept peeking and staring at it anyway.  The owl is a juvenile (they're still curious and exploring at that age) so that may be why.

Image
 

Display posts from previous:  Sort by:  
19 posts | 
  

People Who Like This:
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group