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by mortsgah on Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:44 pm
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Hope this is the correct forum for the topic. Apologies if it isn't...feel free to move or block as needed.

I have a similar post going over on FM, and thought Naturescapes might be also a good place to seek opinions!

Been trying to decide on a solution that serves a long term (3-6 months on the road in the USA fall & winter) vehicle setup for nature/wildlife photography. Of course there has been an explosion of #vanlifers out there, but I am not a youngster anymore and would like a solution where I can sh*t, shower, download and chill on the roads less traveled. As a non-professional nature photographer I of course utilize BLM lands, Forest Service roads, Wildlife refuge roads and in general those roads less traveled. Most will be in the western part of the country.

I have considered the 'Sprinter' van idea (seem too small for living in for months at a time), a small 23' classic RV (too big to take down back-country roads) or tow a 18-23 foot trailer with a Truck or SUV that I can drop at a campground or dispersed camping and use as a base camp (is it safe while I'm gone?). It would just be me and my dog so considerations for heat and cold management when he is left in the rig are in the mix.

Anyone out there who has been on the road (USA in particular) for many months at a time, including winter, who has thoughts and experience on a decent vehicular solution for a traveling photographer and hiker? 

Thanks in advance.
erik
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by E.J. Peiker on Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:47 am
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From what you have described, I can think of two options
1. a true high ground clearance 4WD pick-up truck with 5th wheel trailer to live in.
2. An RV with a 4WD vehicle like a jeep in tow.

As for SUV's, very few of them these days are true 4WD and truly off-road capable.  Most are All Wheel Drive (AWD) which is not the same thing at all and can not be used on a lot of terrain.  That's why I said Jeep above.  Another one is a true 4WD Toyota 4 Runner.  Just beware of SUV's that are really cars with an SUV body bolted on which is probably 95% of them on the road.

P.S. - I'll be moving this to Photography Topics from the photo equipment forum later today :)
 

by mortsgah on Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:24 pm
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Thanks EJ. I went back and forth on choosing proper posting forum!
erik
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by Richard B. on Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:15 pm
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Hi,

As far as class B's (vans) are concerned, they range from under twenty feet to about 24 feet in length, so you have a choice of living area. If cost is no object (cough, cough), the premium models are more than adequate for long term trips. Where most vans are lacking is ground clearance for true off roading. Sportsmobile offers custom vans including many true off-road vans. I believe Roadtrek also has a new off road van, fully equipped. There is a you tube channel by the name of ultramobility that specializes is very informative no drama reviews of class b vans. Here is a link where he discussed the van options.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcpjFykeA8w

Good luck. I'd like to hear what you finally decide.

Richard B.
 

by Scott B on Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:48 pm
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I would vote for a bumper hitch trailer in the 20-25 foot length. Any longer and you will not fit into many non-developed campgrounds. The reason I say bumper hitch is because than you can tow it with an SUV. I disagree with EJ on this one. A full size SUV like Tahoe or a Yukon has true 4 wheel drive and the inside space is much more usable than the bed of a pickup on a road trip (Suburban length gives you a long wheel base which is great for towing but not so great when going through washes or other obstacles on back country roads) . You will probably also have a smoother ride than many pickups which is worth a lot on a road trip. I would get solar panels on the trailer so you have plenty of electricity in less developed places.
 

by mortsgah on Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:05 pm
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Scott, you hit directly on my dilemma. I was originally leaning towards a Tahoe but my mechanic (who has a Big A$$ truck and hauls race cars) is telling me those large SUV's have an issue with weight in the backend causing towing stability concerns, lack big enough brakes and of course don't have the big towing weight specs. But I figured like you say, a trailer in the 20-23 foot range is plenty big enough and even with extra insulation for winter use, shouldn't weight more than 4,000 pounds empty. Hope I'm not dreaming on that one! And I was indeed planning on solar power with generator as back-up. Anyway, I'm hoping his bias is because he tows bigger rigs and wants as much towing power cushion as he can.

And I agree that from a photography equipment access, an SUV seems like it beats a pick-up. However, I thought maybe the 4 door pickups would solve that problem? I find that having a large center console is nice when shooting from the vehicle. Both the SUV and Pickup have that feature. And both have height above ground to allow for being able to see and shoot over road side brush.

I rented a 23 foot RV last spring and found that the empty space between driver seat and passenger seat was a mix of nice to have the space, but tricky to have the lens/camera setup on the floor.
erik
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by E.J. Peiker on Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:29 pm
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Scott B wrote:I would vote for a bumper hitch trailer in the 20-25 foot length.  Any longer and you will not fit into many non-developed campgrounds.  The reason I say bumper hitch is because than you can tow it with an SUV.  I disagree with EJ on this one.  A full size SUV like Tahoe or a Yukon has true 4 wheel drive and the inside space is much more usable than the bed of a pickup on a road trip (Suburban length gives you a long wheel base which is great for towing but not so great when going through washes or other obstacles on back country roads) .  You will probably also have a smoother ride than many pickups which is worth a lot on a road trip.  I would get solar panels on the trailer so you have plenty of electricity in less developed places.
I didn't consider the very long SUV's due to the poor break over clearance but yes those are true 4WD.  My point was that most, like Highlanders, Explorers, Traverse, Equinox, virtually anything Japanese except the 4 runner, virtually anything European, etc do not offer true 4WD and he just needs to beware.
 

by Richard B. on Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:28 pm
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OK, I made an error. The class B 4x4 that I referenced above is the Winnebago Revel, not the Roadtrek. I know I am in the minority here, but my thoughts lean to a van because of the ability to park in normal car size parking areas along the road, and the ability to stay at a shooting location for a long period of time with your facilities and shelter. The Revel is built on the Mercedes short sprinter 4x4 base, and it come winterized which is to say, the piping and tank are in the heat envelope. You are most likely going to leave a trailer at a camp site when you are out shooting. I would be willing to sacrifice some square footage for having everything with me and just being able to move on when finished. Of course, it ain't cheap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT1PN5OhgUI
 

by E.J. Peiker on Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:51 pm
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I would lean towards an off-road capable van too but he specifically said he had ruled those out...
 

by mortsgah on Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:29 pm
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Has anyone on Naturescapes lived in one of these Vans on the road for greater than three months? I really wanted to go with one and had my eye on that 4x4 version with a slide out room but it still seemed too small and not much storage. Maybe I have lived in a house too long <grin>,
erik
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by Scott B on Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:01 am
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mortsgah wrote:S I was originally leaning towards a Tahoe but my mechanic (who has a Big A$$ truck and hauls race cars) is telling me those large SUV's have an issue with weight in the backend causing towing stability concerns, lack big enough brakes and of course don't have the big towing weight specs. B
You can get over sized breaks and differential ratio and a true integrated towing package on full sized SUV's.  They are not as stiff in the suspension area as the trucks he is referring to which is what makes the ride so much nicer.  Put an equalizer hitch on one of the full sized SUV's and a 5,000 lb trailer is not a problem. Most of my friends like the big diesels but they tow larger and heavier trailers than I do and they need the torque and diesel gets a lot better fuel mileage with a heavy load.   
 

by mortsgah on Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:39 pm
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Good info Scott. Sounds like you have an SUV and pull a trailer. Curious what size it is and if it has worked out for you on photo trips.

Thanks
erik
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by E.J. Peiker on Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:51 pm
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Richard B. wrote:Hi,

As far as class B's (vans) are concerned, they range from under twenty feet to about 24 feet in length, so you have a choice of living area. If cost is no object (cough, cough), the premium models are more than adequate for long term trips. Where most vans are lacking is ground clearance for true off roading. Sportsmobile offers custom vans including many true off-road vans. I believe Roadtrek also has a new off road van, fully equipped. There is a you tube channel by the name of ultramobility that specializes is very informative no drama reviews of class b vans. Here is a link where he discussed the van options.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcpjFykeA8w

Good luck. I'd like to hear what you finally decide.

Richard B.
Those Sprinter based vans are awesome.  Extremely expensive and too tall to store on my property unfortunately but wow, that would be fantastic.  Not off roadable but I love it.  BTW, here's the website to the manufacturer:  http://pleasureway.com/
 

by Scott B on Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:28 pm
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mortsgah wrote:Good info Scott. Sounds like you have an SUV and pull a trailer. Curious what size it is and if it has worked out for you on photo trips.

Thanks
Actually I tow a lot with both SUV's and heavy duty trucks.  I have a 25' travel trailer in the 5,000 lb range that tows just fine with Tahoe/Suburban, Yukon/Yukon XL.  I like the park the trailer and have SUV only during the day option.  Also if I take my wife she can stay sleeping in the trailer when I go out and get some early morning shots.  I don't think I would go more than 27' to 28' not for towing but for fitting in FS and BLM campgrounds.  I would not go smaller than 20' because I like the room.  I do not have a slide on mine.  It would be nice to have when you are parked but ti is one more thing to go wrong also.  The trailer works great on photo trips, and the combination is still less than a van and you have a more usable vehicle for day trips.  I think Vans are a good option and they are more politically correct now for some reason.  I have never travel in one but I am with you I like a little more space, and if I need small I still enjoy a tent.
 

by mortsgah on Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:26 pm
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Thanks to all that have provided input. Some true gems. Scott, your response was especially useful. This underscores what a great resource this group can be. Now I just need to ruminate a while and pull the trigger. Happy image making.

Cheers!
erik
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by Richard B. on Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:27 pm
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Hell EJ, those PleasureWays are nicer than my house! Whad'ya going to do with your muddy hiking boots?

Fessing up, I don't own a van. I have rented one in the past for a week, and lady friend and I toured the Maine coast in October. I enjoyed it - the van I mean. If  anybody is thinking about it, renting is a good option for an extended test drive. Also apparently there is a rather brisk used market on these things. People buy them and then decide a van is not for them. But it also goes the other way, people buy a bigger rig and decide to downsize.

Erik, it would be helpful to know what you decide on.

Richard B.
 

by Wildflower-nut on Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:37 pm
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I don’t really see a problem with your trailer concept if that is what you want to do. Any trailer over a certain weight by law will have its own brakes. On a suburban (long wheel base like a pickup truck) for example, you have load distribution hitches which distributes the tongue weight between the SUV's front and rear axle. Sway bars are also available for added stability. I've towed several different trailers with this type of equipment over the years and I really don't think anything of it. A good hitch installer can give you advice on this.

Stay within the tow vehicle manufacturer's specs on tow weights. I once was pulling a trailer up wolf creek pass with a 1/2 ton pickup truck loaded barely within the mfg specs and even the semi-trucks were passing me. The truck could have gone faster but not without overheating. A quick look at the Tahoe's rating on the Chevy site indicates it is available in versions with a towing capacity of up to 8400 lbs.
 

by Kim on Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:34 pm
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I have done 12 months or longer in a vehicle similar to the latest version of the link below. It will take you anywhere in a good level of comfort, is easy to park and pretty economical on fuel. Being self contained it is great for off grid camping in the wilderness. You can even get diesel heaters that run off the engine if it gets too cold.


I find most people when starting out on this type of adventure regularly over estimate the amount of stuff they need and the room required. After a time on the road you come to realize that less is more and the room you need is not as much as you thought.


The Ute/truck is true 4x4 and you can configure the accommodation as you want if buying new here in Australia. It will fit into a regular parking space too. From my experience the no:1 thing is to have a permanently made up bed. Good luck in your choice.

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/penrith ... 1157808591
 

by Wildflower-nut on Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:40 am
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A SUV towing a trailer or a RV towing a jeep wrangler is not as convenient as a 4wd 20’ class b RV. If you are truly on a 4wd road and not just a gravel road, the jeep or SUV is better. Pickup trucks, and big SUV (suburban) can work and to a lesser extent a class b but in switchbacks but in a lot of places a shorter wheel base and low center of gravity is nice to have. A towed jeep needs to be towed in such a way as to provide its own braking just like a trailer. Wranglers come in different flavors so how rugged the 4wd road you are going on will determine what you need including ultimately aftermarket parts/modifications.

I think you need to consider where you really are likely to be going. Most roads I've been on forest service (gravel) or otherwise in the west, have rarely required 4wd. Good clearance is the first thing you need. It was many many years ago but I drove a class A Winnebago to Inuvik in the NW territory, Dawson City, and much of Alaska on unpaved roads with no issues. If you get to a place like Silverton, Moab, Death Valley etc, with hard 4wd roads, you can rent a jeep. On the other hand if you are spending a lot of time on rock crawling type roads or rutted mud a jeep and 4wd is more of a priority.

Are you constantly on the move or setting up camp say in Yellowstone for a week? Moving every day the Class b RV is really nice. Staying longer, the trailer. Have others traveling with you that may not share your sunrise enthusiasm then a trailer.
 

by mortsgah on Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:42 pm
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Wildflower-nut wrote:A SUV towing a trailer or a RV towing a jeep wrangler is not as convenient as a 4wd 20’ class b RV.  If you are truly on a 4wd road and not just a gravel road, the jeep or SUV is better.  Pickup trucks, and big SUV (suburban) can work and to a lesser extent a class b but in switchbacks but in a lot of places a shorter wheel base and low center of gravity is nice to have.  A towed jeep needs to be towed in such a way as to provide its own braking just like a trailer.  Wranglers come in different flavors so how rugged the 4wd road you are going on will determine what you need including ultimately aftermarket parts/modifications.
 
I think you need to consider where you really are likely to be going.  Most roads I've been on forest service (gravel) or otherwise in the west, have rarely required 4wd.  Good clearance is the first thing you need.  It was many many years ago but I drove a class A Winnebago to Inuvik in the NW territory, Dawson City, and much of Alaska on unpaved roads with no issues.  If you get to a place like Silverton, Moab, Death Valley etc, with hard 4wd roads, you can rent a jeep.  On the other hand if you are spending a lot of time on rock crawling type roads or rutted mud a jeep and 4wd is more of a priority.

Are you constantly on the move or setting up camp say in Yellowstone for a week?  Moving every day the Class b RV is really nice.  Staying longer, the trailer.  Have others traveling with you that may not share your sunrise enthusiasm then a trailer.
You got right to the heart of the topic for me. This reply may be long so feel free to skip if it is too dull.

These are the exact questions I have been asking myself. Now that I am fully retired, my use scenario can change. In the past when I was limited to only a few weeks of free time, I found I was hurrying on my road trips anxious to move on for the next shot. So pulling a trailer was a non-starter. I owned a few standard "hippie" vans that I put a bed in and these worked out fine when I was in my 20's and 30's not worrying about showering and, since this was film era, no need to download the days production in the evening. Laptop computers didn't even exist yet! With those vans, I was able to quickly stop, backup, photograph and move on to the next spot chasing the image as it were. But I never really stayed and explored a place. Between college degrees (I ended up with two) I spent six months at the Malheur refuge in Oregon living out of a small 12 foot trailer in Frenchglen and found the experience of spending time staying and exploring one area in depth very rewarding (both photography wise as well as the fun of it).

I live in Washington state and will travel mostly the lands west of the Mississippi and only occasionally have to navigate a big city. My setup must be winter capable as I do like to photograph in teh snow as well as ski (both downhill and back country). I figure any off-roading will be more along the lines of secondary and maybe tertiary forest service roads, refuge roads, national park roads and BLM lands. It is the BLM roads where I think I would run in to the roughest terrain. Mostly potholes and washouts, seldom if ever going on those true 4WD jeep boulder roads. And like you say, I can always rent a jeep for those. I like to use the vehicle as a blind so need to be able to maneuver on Refuge or park roads and not block those behind me. I am 6'2" so interior height is a concern.

With this as background, my thoughts are that I want to be able to hang in one spot for a week or more and get to know the area and explore it and leave the run and gun photography style in the past. And having the time, means I won't be photographing every day all day so a nice place to hang out, meet the locales and stay out of the rain/snow would be nice. I travel with my dog, so having a boon docking set-up for long term A/C or heat when I'm out on the trail and he is staying behind while I photograph is a consideration. This concept has led me to the idea of a trailer set-up.

Lastly, there is the sad consideration of security. I'm not sure one setup is less prone to break ins than another, but it is something I will have to figure out.

OK, so that was probably more detail than needed, but there it is.....
erik
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