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by MND on Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:25 am
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We are intending to visit White Pocket in the last week of May. I’ve rented a Hi Clearance 4WD Jeep Cherokee from Kanab for the day. Having owned Jeeps before I’m somewhat familiar with off-roading techniques. 

I’m getting conflicting information. Somebody has said that I need a permit to drive on private roads to get to White Pocket. I can not find this in any searches I’ve conducted. 

Any info from members will be appreciated. What can we expect in terms of weather, photographic conditions, time of day etc..

Thanks
 

by E.J. Peiker on Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:10 am
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Permits are required for The Wave but not White Pocket:
https://www.myutahparks.com/things-to-do/the-wave-vs-white-pocket
 

by PV Hiker on Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:53 pm
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Been to White Pocket 3 times and different routes and never have I heard of getting permits for crossing private property. But who knows things could change over the years since last visit. How would you even get such a permit. Just remember to close gates if you open them. The ranchers have cattle roaming the desert. Watch others that have stuck themselves in the sand. The Jeep you are renting make sure there is a shovel even better a air compressor so you can let some air out of the tires. Go over the details with the rental place. Enjoy your visit
Patrick
 

by MND on Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:27 pm
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PV Hiker wrote:
Been to White Pocket 3 times and different routes and never have I heard of getting permits for crossing private property. But who knows things could change over the years since last visit.  How would you even get such a permit.  Just remember to close gates if you open them.  The ranchers have cattle roaming the desert. Watch others that have stuck themselves in the sand.  The Jeep you are renting make sure there is a shovel even better a air compressor so you can let some air out of the tires. Go over the details with the rental place. Enjoy your visit



Thanks Patrick, the guy that said I needed permits to cross private land was being fed a load of BS from tour companies I think.

I fully intend to go over tow straps, compressor, a board and other equipment well before I get there.

Cheers

Mike
 

by Wildflower-nut on Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:26 pm
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PV Hiker wrote:
Been to White Pocket 3 times and different routes and never have I heard of getting permits for crossing private property. But who knows things could change over the years since last visit.  How would you even get such a permit.  Just remember to close gates if you open them.  The ranchers have cattle roaming the desert. Watch others that have stuck themselves in the sand.  The Jeep you are renting make sure there is a shovel even better a air compressor so you can let some air out of the tires. Go over the details with the rental place. Enjoy your visit




Planning to go next year.
 

by Darren K on Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:20 pm
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I visit White Pocket most years, and it's obviously quite the place. Any stories you read likely have far more bite than the road does, so airing tires down, or any of the recovery items will prove unnecessary and overkill. Sure, it's good to be prepared, and soft tires come in handy on House Rock Valley Road most of the time anyway with washboards that are frequently present, and some of those other items are always good to have on hand regardless of where you go, but there is no need to overthink all the extras just for this road. I can't imagine getting stuck there. Most of the deeper sandy sections are on inclines (going in) anyway, meaning backing up shouldn't be difficult if one happened to somehow get stuck going up. I've stopped and backed up in the deepest level areas to allow vehicles to pass, which hasn't been a problem.

Regarding permits, for a number of years, I've almost expected this to be put into effect at any time, which is why I go most years (to soak up the freedom while it's still there). It seems to me White Pocket is always busier than CB South, or it has all of the times I've been. I hope it never comes to this, but won't be surprised if it does.
 

by MND on Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:30 pm
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Darren K wrote:
I visit White Pocket most years, and it's obviously quite the place. Any stories you read likely have far more bite than the road does, so airing tires down, or any of the recovery items will prove unnecessary and overkill. Sure, it's good to be prepared, and soft tires come in handy on House Rock Valley Road most of the time anyway with washboards that are frequently present, and some of those other items are always good to have on hand regardless of where you go, but there is no need to overthink all the extras just for this road. I can't imagine getting stuck there. Most of the deeper sandy sections are on inclines (going in) anyway, meaning backing up shouldn't be difficult if one happened to somehow get stuck going up. I've stopped and backed up in the deepest level areas to allow vehicles to pass, which hasn't been a problem.

Regarding permits, for a number of years, I've almost expected this to be put into effect at any time, which is why I go most years (to soak up the freedom while it's still there). It seems to me White Pocket is always busier than CB South, or it has all of the times I've been. I hope it never comes to this, but won't be surprised if it does.



Thanks very much for the info.
 

by Jens Peermann on Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:39 pm
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I am also planning to be in White Pocket in late May, arriving in the afternoon of Saturday the 26th and leaving 24 hours later. Naturally the road is of concern and I read a number of horror stories, as well as reports of the road being manageable even by small 2 wheel drive pickups. My impression is that the horror stories are exaggerated. My vehicle for trips like that is a 2001 Subaru Outback VDC which has never let me down in any situation, including some that were bad indeed.

However, if someone thinks that this vehicle would be a bad choice for a trip to White Pocket, please let me know, including why you think so.

Thanks
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by MND on Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:07 pm
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Jens Peermann wrote:
I am also planning to be in White Pocket in late May, arriving in the afternoon of Saturday the 26th and leaving 24 hours later. Naturally the road is of concern and I read a number of horror stories, as well as reports of the road being manageable even by small 2 wheel drive pickups. My impression is that the horror stories are exaggerated. My vehicle for trips like that is a 2001 Subaru Outback VDC which has never let me down in any situation, including some that were bad indeed.

However, if someone thinks that this vehicle would be a bad choice for a trip to White Pocket, please let me know, including why you think so.

Thanks


Check some of the YouTube videos. Some areas of sand are quite deep apparently, particularly if it’s been dry for a while. 
 

by Jens Peermann on Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:59 am
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MND wrote:
Check some of the YouTube videos. Some areas of sand are quite deep apparently, particularly if it’s been dry for a while. 


Thanks MND. I watched some videos and it doesn't appear to be too bad. At least not worse than sand roads I have traveled before.

I also found out that the BLM Office in Big Water has information on the current condition of that road. Big Water is where you turn off to get to Wahweap Hoodoos, which is on my itinerary for the day before going to White Pocket. So I can just stop by there.

There also are some useful videos and reports about driving on sand beaches. From one of then I learned that the fancy traction controls on cars like mine are great on Ice and snow, but a real handicap on soft sand and should be turned off.
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by Brian Stirling on Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:45 pm
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I think part of the 'horror story' thing is that if you do have a problem it can be REAL EXPENSIVE to get pulled out and one such case will reverberate for years. A decade ago I road my motorcycle along House Rock Valley road on my way to The Wave and about midway along House Rock an occasional stream produced an area of mud about a foot deep. I was able to navigate the bike through the ruts in the mud made by a pickup and made it to the the parking area without a problem. I found out later that someone in a passenger car got stuck in that muddy area and it cost him over $500USD to get pulled out. Now, imagine being miles deeper into the more desolate areas and having a problem.

You need to know what the weather is going to be like and what it was the day or two before and that's a problem if you plan the trip months in advance. You may arrive in Kanab for your trip only to find that a bad storm blew through a day before and the roads are pretty much impassable even in Jeeps.


Brian
 

by Jens Peermann on Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:55 pm
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Brian Stirling wrote:
I think part of the 'horror story' thing is that if you do have a problem it can be REAL EXPENSIVE to get pulled out and one such case will reverberate for years.  A decade ago I road my motorcycle along House Rock Valley road on my way to The Wave and about midway along House Rock an occasional stream produced an area of mud about a foot deep.  I was able to navigate the bike through the ruts in the mud made by a pickup and made it to the the parking area without a problem.  I found out later that someone in a passenger car got stuck in that muddy area and it cost him over $500USD to get pulled out.  Now, imagine being miles deeper into the more desolate areas and having a problem.

You need to know what the weather is going to be like and what it was the day or two before and that's a problem if you plan the trip months in advance.  You may arrive in Kanab for your trip only to find that a bad storm blew through a day before and the roads are pretty much impassable even in Jeeps.


Brian



Thanks Bryan.

I have set up a plan B for that day and will check with the BLM office in Big Water the day before to decide if I will go to White Pocket or to an alternate destination.
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by MND on Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:27 pm
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From what I can find online the average rainfall in May is very low so hopefully we’re going to be good for White Pocket. With the weather this year though anything is possible.

We have the lifted Jeep booked for Wednesday 23rd of May. If the road to White Pocket should be impassible how about the road to Toroweap following heavy rain? Any idea anyone?
 

by Jens Peermann on Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:27 pm
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MND wrote:
From what I can find online the average rainfall in May is very low so hopefully we’re going to be good for White Pocket. With the weather this year though anything is possible.

We have the lifted Jeep booked for Wednesday 23rd of May. If the road to White Pocket should be impassible how about the road to Toroweap following heavy rain? Any idea anyone?


Actually, I have learned that the longer the weather is dry, the deeper the sand will be. Some moisture in the sand makes it more stable and easier/safer to drive.
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by E.J. Peiker on Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:23 pm
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There is essentially zero rain in AZ from March to the middle of July.... Almost all of the rain for the year falls in August/September with a few Pacific storms that drop water in the winter months but that didn't happen this year at all so it will be very dry!
 

by MND on Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:03 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
There is essentially zero rain in AZ from March to the middle of July....  Almost all of the rain for the year falls in August/September with a few Pacific storms that drop water in the winter months but that didn't happen this year at all so it will be very dry!



If for instance the BLM say the way to White Pocket is more or less impassible and we need an alternate location how about Toroweap?

I’ve read the road is a tire killer but are there places to get stuck?
 

by E.J. Peiker on Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:19 pm
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Toroweap is a tire eater - so make sure you have a real spare. I destroyed a true off-road tire on the road. The road in is easy but does have some sharp rocks that can cut tires. The last few miles require high ground clearance 4WD.
 

by MND on Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:21 am
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Thanks for that E.J. The Jeep rental company has a Tire Waiver for $10 so I’ll add that as well if we do head to Toroweap.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:52 pm
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If they are willing to give you two spares, do it! Better safe than sorry!
 

by MND on Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:10 pm
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I’ll bear that in mind in we decide to go to Toroweap. We only have 6 days and have to fit in Zion, Bryce, Monument Valley, White Pocket and the North Rim. We have a spare day so maybe we’ll get there.

Thanks for advice.
 

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